Neowinian Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) So my subscription has expired and I wanted to subscribe again. However, since the forum has been upgraded the subscription page has become unclear. When I click on the tier 2 subscription, it states that I need to sign up, when I am already logged in... well that isn't right. If I click the donate now button, there are all sorts of options and I just don't know if it is going to work. When I chose the tier 2 option it takes me to PayPal for $1, I am sure the subscription costs slightly more than that. Are you guys going to fix this? As it is really confusing. It was so much more clearer the previous times I subscribed. I have attached a screenshot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqt Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Hey Arron, This is actually something I want to personally tackle in the foreseeable future once I finish my current work-in-progress because I've got several ideas for the subscriptions page. But to answer why the subscription page is a little unclear, on the old forum system (Invision Power Board 3.4) there was a subscriptions manager application that was used to handle all of the incoming payments. In the upgrade to the current forum system (Invision Power Board 4.0 -> and now into 4.1) that particular application has not been updated and with all considerations in it appeared that getting the fixes handled were top priority. That said, here's how the system itself works, you're making a donation towards Neowin to the amount of your choosing, you can select which goal you want to contribute towards (General Donation, Subscriber 1 or Subscriber 2). Once the payment is processed it will check the amount you've sent and adjust your account accordingly. This is why if you collectively donate upwards of $56 in total collectively you will get a return of subscriber tier 2 for a year (or extended on your current subscription if you were to have one active at that point in time). The confusion you're having about registering is the description for each donation category. If you want to submit a payment you can do so here. It's certainly something that needs some TLC but I hope this helps you! Steven P. 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted December 21, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 21, 2015 Yep have to admit it's not the nicest system, I used to have it setup to show just two amounts ($14 and $28) with the lowest for Tier 1 and higher one for Tier 2, but I got messages asking why the donation system wasn't free to use for smaller amounts of a few bucks here and there, so I extended it. With the description I set the amount (which hasn't changed at all) so basically upon paying you set the goal to Tier 2 and ensure you have paid $28, no more, no less and your account will be set to Subscriber Tier 2 again for a year. Hope this helps! -The plan is to reimplement the subscriber application, with a clear option to 'just donate' in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Off topic I know, but if you guys reduced the subscription price, you'd probably get more subs... $28 a year to switch off ads and access a single forum section might not seem a lot to some of you, but to others, it is. Especially when the main reason to sub, turning off ads, can be had for the price of nothing if you use an ad blocker... Just sayin'... I'd have subbed years ago if it were more reasonable, say, a tenner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveLegg Developer Posted December 21, 2015 Developer Share Posted December 21, 2015 Just now, FloatingFatMan said: Off topic I know, but if you guys reduced the subscription price, you'd probably get more subs... $28 a year to switch off ads and access a single forum section might not seem a lot to some of you, but to others, it is. Especially when the main reason to sub, turning off ads, can be had for the price of nothing if you use an ad blocker... Just sayin'... I'd have subbed years ago if it were more reasonable, say, a tenner. As far as I'm aware, the subscription rate is set based on the average annual income from a single, registered viewer, seeing our ads throughout the year. Yes, you could block adverts, but that doesn't do anything to support the site. The whole point of the ad-free package is that you get the ads removed, Neowin doesn't lose out financially, and you can show your support for the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Just now, DaveLegg said: As far as I'm aware, the subscription rate is set based on the average annual income from a single, registered viewer, seeing our ads throughout the year. Yes, you could block adverts, but that doesn't do anything to support the site. The whole point of the ad-free package is that you get the ads removed, Neowin doesn't lose out financially, and you can show your support for the site. Sure... But I want to support the site AND lose the ads, and actually be able to afford the sub! I have a house to run and a family to feed, y'know... $28 is like, a weeks fuel for my car... It'd also mean I wouldn't feel a heel due to the work ad-blocker... I don't block at home, but at work I have no control over it... They're blocked at network level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqt Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 8 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said: But I want to support the site AND lose the ads It wouldn't be supporting the site though if it said good bye to $18 for every new subscriber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 8 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said: Off topic I know, but if you guys reduced the subscription price, you'd probably get more subs... 11 minutes ago, Mur said: It wouldn't be supporting the site though if it said good bye to $18 for every new subscriber. Reading, it's fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqt Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 5 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Reading, it's fun! Your math is flawed though. I understand where you're getting confused with more subscribers, but at a fraction of the income money is actually lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Just now, Mur said: Your math is flawed though. I understand where you're getting confused with more subscribers, but at a fraction of the income money is actually lost. That depends entirely on how many more subs you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqt Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You're processing the numbers incorrectly though by not accounting for the comparative loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsupersonic Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Right now, you have 16 s1 donations, and 80 s2 donations ($2418 total). That's really nothing... You might see an increase in subscriber1+2 if you decrease the price of subscriptions. I think most people use ad-blockers. You guys should give away subscriptions and also incentivize them more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Berry Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Personally, I'd like to see more contests on the forums which reward subs. The start screen screenshot thread from a couple years ago being an example. Just something to get the community involved it. Who knows, it might be pretty fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 hour ago, Mur said: You're processing the numbers incorrectly though by not accounting for the comparative loss. I think you're processing the words I'm typing incorrectly by not accounting for the increase in subs if the price is reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqt Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 7 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: I think you're processing the words I'm typing incorrectly by not accounting for the increase in subs if the price is reduced. I think it's best that we agree to disagree. I see where you're coming from regarding perspective but I don't feel like your conclusion is correct. That said it's not my purgative to say what the price is fair for subscribers or not, I just develop/design where needed and the subscription price very well may change in the future. ¯¯\(°_o)/¯¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 3 minutes ago, Mur said: I think it's best that we agree to disagree. I see where you're coming from regarding perspective but I don't feel like your conclusion is correct. That said it's not my purgative to say what the price is fair for subscribers or not, I just develop/design where needed and the subscription price very well may change in the future. ¯¯\(°_o)/¯¯ 10 subs at 18 dollars. 5 subs at 28 dollars. Which brought in more revenue ? Danielx64 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielx64 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Seriously I think that there a more serious issue that needs sorting out then this subscribing thing: the state of this forum. I would guess that the amount of activity around here have dropped since the upgrade to 4.0 and worse 4.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveLegg Developer Posted December 21, 2015 Developer Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 hour ago, adrynalyne said: 10 subs at 18 dollars. 5 subs at 28 dollars. Which brought in more revenue ? 5 subs at $28 plus 5 members brings in more than 10 subs at $18 pqt and Dick Montage 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DaveLegg said: 5 subs at $28 plus 5 members brings in more than 10 subs at $18 Thats assuming you get more or even the same amount of subs for a higher purchase price, which seems unlikely. If the world worked like that, sales would be a waste of time. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjo85au Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Lets take a group of 10 current users. Currently those 10 ad-viewing users generate $280 of revenue for the site by viewing ads over the course of a year. ---- $10 Subscription ---------- If 5 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $10, they no longer view ads. So there is 5 users for $50 and 5 users viewing ads at $28/year which generates $190 in revenue. If 10 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $10, they no longer view ads. So there is 10 users paying $100. The site is losing $180 in revenue every year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- $28 Subscription ---------- If 5 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $28, they no longer view ads. So there is 5 users for $140 and 5 users viewing ads at $28/year which generates $280 in revenue. If 10 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $28, they no longer view ads. So there is 10 users paying $280. The site is losing $0 in revenue every year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most other people seem to have made assumptions predicated on the fact that a user contributes no revenue to the site when they are not a subscriber. This is not true. pqt and DaveLegg 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielx64 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 There no way that I would be even creating $28 revenue by even viewing the ads, and no I'm not blocking then here. 6 minutes ago, Benjo85au said: Lets take a group of 10 current users. Currently those 10 ad-viewing users generate $280 of revenue for the site by viewing ads over the course of a year. ---- $10 Subscription ---------- If 5 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $10, they no longer view ads. So there is 5 users for $50 and 5 users viewing ads at $28/year which generates $190 in revenue. If 10 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $10, they no longer view ads. So there is 10 users paying $100. The site is losing $180 in revenue every year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- $28 Subscription ---------- If 5 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $28, they no longer view ads. So there is 5 users for $140 and 5 users viewing ads at $28/year which generates $280 in revenue. If 10 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $28, they no longer view ads. So there is 10 users paying $280. The site is losing $0 in revenue every year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most other people seem to have made assumptions predicated on the fact that a user contributes no revenue to the site when they are not a subscriber. This is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveLegg Developer Posted December 21, 2015 Developer Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 minute ago, Danielx64 said: There no way that I would be even creating $28 revenue by even viewing the ads, and no I'm not blocking then here. Because you know what our advertisers pay us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjo85au Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Danielx64 said: There no way that I would be even creating $28 revenue by even viewing the ads, and no I'm not blocking then here. That depends entirely on CTR, CPC and CPV. I suspect based on what moderators/admins/developers have said that you likely are over the course of a year. To add some more math to this equation. If you visit 10 pages per session. And have 5 sessions per day. You are viewing up to 50 adds per day. Over a year that's 18,250 ad views. That only needs to be worth ~$0.0015 per ad view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimeMaster Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 8 minutes ago, Benjo85au said: Lets take a group of 10 current users. Currently those 10 ad-viewing users generate $280 of revenue for the site by viewing ads over the course of a year. ---- $10 Subscription ---------- If 5 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $10, they no longer view ads. So there is 5 users for $50 and 5 users viewing ads at $28/year which generates $190 in revenue. If 10 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $10, they no longer view ads. So there is 10 users paying $100. The site is losing $180 in revenue every year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- $28 Subscription ---------- If 5 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $28, they no longer view ads. So there is 5 users for $140 and 5 users viewing ads at $28/year which generates $280 in revenue. If 10 of those 10 users decide to subscribe for $28, they no longer view ads. So there is 10 users paying $280. The site is losing $0 in revenue every year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most other people seem to have made assumptions predicated on the fact that a user contributes no revenue to the site when they are not a subscriber. This is not true. Sorry, but the information about The Tier 1 is false because ads are still shown for those members. Only the Tier 2 group are exempt from seeing ads. Danielx64 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielx64 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 minute ago, Benjo85au said: That depends entirely on CTR, CPC and CPV. I suspect based on what moderators/admins/developers have said that you likely are over the course of a year. To add some more math to this equation. If you visit 10 pages per session. And have 5 sessions per day. You are viewing up to 50 adds per day. Over a year that's 18,250 ad views. That only needs to be worth ~$0.0015 per ad view. While that may be true, what about the fact that in some cases you only get paid if someone clicks on the ads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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