Breaking : 2 Explosions heard at Brussels airport

[Jim K Global Moderator]

20 hours ago, Gary7 said:

The problem is Radical Islamist's  and our President will not even say the word. Belgium is one of our Allies, a member of NATO and Obama gave a 51 second speech in Communist Cuba condemning this.

No, he doesn't call the "radical Islam" ... and I can see why.  He doesn't what to use the term which grants them a religious legitimacy ... something that these evil murderers, rapists, etc., do not deserve.  In other words ... they are not "radical Islamic terrorists" ... they are just terrorists.  We are not at war against Islam ... we are at war who have perverted Islam.  

 

Personally, I can not fault him from not wanting to include "Islamic" when referring to these killers....because they aren't "Islamic".

 

It also pains me that you honestly think Obama is just trying to blow this off ... as if he thinks it is nothing.

[ichi]

26 minutes ago, Emn1ty said:

That assumes you have a vaccine. And vaccinating against a disease isn't quite the same as vaccinating against terrorist recruitment. But here's another analogy, do we just let people die from cancer because we don't have a cure or do we still perform potentially life threatening operations to remove the cancerous tissue?

The problem I have with the whole terrorism discussion is people seem to have an argument against doing anything because no matter what is done... it won't work. You can't attack them, you can't close your borders, you can't ignore them. So what do we do? The idea that we can't retaliate because "there will always be more" is just a clever way to shut down discussion of any real course of action.

Yes, there will be more terrorists even if we blow ISIS off the face of the planet. This however does not mean we cannot do so. We wash our cars even though they're going to get dirty again, so why don't we clean the planet of its cancer in the meantime while we find a way to stop it for good (if that's even possible).

Of course you can retaliate. The point is that killing terrorists doesn't kill terrorism, but that doesn't meant that we should just let them be.

 

All the unemployed and not integrated muslim youth in places like Molenbeek isn't going to go away just by taking military action on Daesh. Those are fodder for indoctrination and radicalization.

[Morisato]

30 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

The problem is Radical Islamist's  and our President will not even say the word. Belgium is one of our Allies, a member of NATO and Obama gave a 51 second speech in Communist Cuba condemning this.

Problem is the left wing peeps or however you want to classify them don't want to use the term Islamist. While not all Muslims are terroists, 93%+ of large committed terrorist attacks were done by Muslims so... yeah... you have that.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/14/hillary-we-are-at-war-with-violent-extremism-refuses-to-say-radical-islam/

 

 

 

[+Raze Subscriber²]

37 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

The problem is Radical Islamist's  and our President will not even say the word. Belgium is one of our Allies, a member of NATO and Obama gave a 51 second speech in Communist Cuba condemning this.

The emphasis should be on the events in Belgium and not about Obama. 

 

Condolences to family and friends and the country.   Vive la Belgique!

 

Hell, he could end world hunger, bring peace to the world and eliminate poverty and some people would still whine and bitch about him.   /s

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

7 hours ago, Unobscured Vision said:

 "Suicide Bombing". Yes, it was ARAFAT who came up with that idea. It all started with him. 

Ok, now this is just funny. Using political or religious brainwashing and offering post-mortum rewards, whether to the person or the relatives, or just promising fame, as excisted long before Arafat... the concept is being around.

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

26 minutes ago, Raze said:

....bring peace to the world ...

ohh yeah, he is a 2009 Nobel Peace Prize winner after all 

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

1 hour ago, jjkusaf said:

No, he doesn't call the "radical Islam" ... and I can see why.  He does what to use the term which grants them a religious legitimacy ... something that these evil murderers, rapists, etc., do not deserve.  In other words ... they are not "radical Islamic terrorists" ... they are just terrorists.  We are not at war against Islam ... we are at war who have perverted Islam.  

 

Personally, I can not fault him from not wanting to include "Islamic" when referring to these killers....because they aren't "Islamic".

 

It also pains me that you honestly think Obama is just trying to blow this off ... as if he thinks it is nothing.

The fact is that they are Radical Islamic Terrorists.  They are not Radical Irish Terrorists.  You cannot sugar coat the Truth. I referred to them as savages in a prior post.

[DeusProto]

What needs to be done is NOT ratcheting up military aggression and whatnot -- as that is exactly what ISIL wants governments to do as it will drive up their recruiting numbers.

 

What needs to be done is incentivizing integration / assimilation through financial stipends/rewards and other means. And friendly outreach that provides robust support networks to poor inner city areas in Europe and other developed countries. And most important of all, respect for these residents of the inner cities and new immigrants (including Syrian refugees -- 99% of which are just poor people who nowhere else to go who want to call some place home peacefully). 

 

Systematic deprogramming through education systems. 

 

Do not let incidents like these increase feelings of hate and rage, that is EXACTLY what ISIL is going for when they commit these attacks. Google ISIS Gray Zone or read this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12002726/The-grey-zone-How-Isis-wants-to-divide-the-world-into-Muslims-and-crusaders.html

 

Gray Zone is ISIL's current objective to eventually obtain their end game objective: A worldwide single nation Islamic caliphate/state. And at least on the first objective they are sadly succeeding because with each attack it is causing people to clamor for an extremist leader who vows to ratchet up military operations and shun immigration of Muslims -- which will in effect boost ISIL's recruitment. By giving into hatred and xenophobia you are playing right into ISIL's hands. 

 

The more Muslims are marginalized, the more ISIL's recruitment will be bolstered, as well as financial support. So don't play into their hands. The Gray Zone is the strategy they are using to mobilize support, and because people are too easily manipulated by isolated attack incidents, it is a strategy that seems to be working most unfortunately. 

 

There is no military solution to this problem. And there is no easy one. It will take generations of promoting tolerance and peace, empowering immigrants including refugees, and providing support networks so they can eke out a good life in developed countries before this type of thing is reduced.

 

Do not let terrorism change how you do things or what you believe no matter what. Always work for peace and improving the lives of the downtrodden and the foreign in your midst. Make them feel like they belong, don't make them feel outcast. Work to integrate them into the melting pot that is progressive society.

 

Interdict those who are active members of ISIL, and if they are convicted in a fair and lawful trial then work to rehabilitate them through psychological counseling and also ministering to by moderate Muslim clerics. If necessary, place their children in the custody of the state to be carefully educated properly by psychiatrists to help them to let go of the hatred they were programmed to feel and help them to integrate. 

 

A lot of ISIL/ISIS recruits are just teenagers who have been led astray, and it is still very possible to rehabilitate them and integrate them into society after they are brought to a new peaceful way of thinking. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by DeusProto

[Jim K Global Moderator]

33 minutes ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

ohh yeah, he is a 2009 Nobel Peace Prize winner after all 

I never understand that ... or why the Norwegian Nobel Committee gave that award to Obama so soon.  Not really talking about politics or anything ... just something I never understood.  It is like giving the Vince Lombardi Trophy to the Cleveland Browns after the first game or two.  

 

In my opinion, Obama should have done what Le Tho did in 1973, thanking the committee but declining the prize stating that "peace has not yet really been established".

 

...but saw this on twitter and thought it was touching,

 

 

 

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

The emphasis should be on the events in Belgium and not about Obama. 

 

Condolences to family and friends and the country.   Vive la Belgique!

 

Hell, he could end world hunger, bring peace to the world and eliminate poverty and some people would still whine and bitch about him.   /s

Did you ever give it one second of thought that Obama threatened  Syria and drew a red line in the sand. That line was crossed many times and Obama did nothing. If he did, if the US did maybe these attacks in Paris and Belgium would not have occurred.  In Syria 250,000 plus lives were lost. ISIS is the creation of Obama. If he did not pull out every troop from Iraq, there would not be an ISIS today. I feel very bad for the lives lost both in Paris and Belgium, but when The President of The United States is in Cuba having a Photo shoot in Front of an image of Che Rivera, a killer and terrorist I have no respect left for him. One cannot make idle threats and not take responsibility for  the consequences.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

59 minutes ago, Morisato said:

Problem is the left wing peeps or however you want to classify them don't want to use the term Islamist. While not all Muslims are terroists, 93%+ of large committed terrorist attacks were done by Muslims so... yeah... you have that.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/14/hillary-we-are-at-war-with-violent-extremism-refuses-to-say-radical-islam/

I prefer the term Muslim conservative.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

6 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

Did you ever give it one second of thought that Obama threatened  Syria and drew a red line in the sand. That line was crossed many times and Obama did nothing. If he did, if the US did maybe these attacks in Paris and Belgium would not have occurred.  In Syria 250,000 plus lives were lost. ISIS is the creation of Obama. If he did not pull out every troop from Iraq, there would not be an ISIS today. I feel very bad for the lives lost both in Paris and Belgium, but when The President of The United States is in Cuba having a Photo shoot in Front of Che Rivera, a killer and terrorist I have no respect left for him. One cannot make idle threats and not take responsibility for  the consequences.

Wow.  Yes I have given it some thought, stop being so damn condescending.    You have no idea what would have happened, none. zilch, pure speculation on your part.  And it's obvious by the many remarks you've made in different threads about Obama you have a overwhelming bias,  fine your choice, but don't hijack threads with it.  Create a "The reasons I hate Obama" thread and have at it.  And Obama did more than just have his picture taken, he spoke the Belgian Prime Minster Charles Michel from the US embassy, he was involved in much more than you want to give him credit for, but your bias blinds you to anything he does, so discussion is futile with you.  And for the record I am not some kool-aid drinking Obama worshipper.

 

 

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

Wow.  Yes I have given it some thought, stop being so damn condescending.    You have no idea what would have happened, none. zilch, pure speculation on your part.  And it's obvious by the many remarks you've made in different threads about Obama you have a overwhelming bias,  fine your choice, but don't hijack threads with it.  Create a "The reasons I hate Obama" thread and have at it.  And Obama did more than just have his picture taken, he spoke the Belgian Prime Minster Charles Michel from the US embassy, he was involved in much more than you want to give him credit for, but your bias blinds you to anything he does, so discussion is futile with you.  And for the record I am not some kool-aid drinking Obama worshipper.

 

 

I know that you are not, What I posted was not my idea alone. It has been reported as such for quite some time. It is just the idea that one does not make promises he does not keep. ISIS is using the weapons we left behind in Iraq. Ask some of his former secretary's of Defense what they thought of  Obama's actions. Yes I have a great dislike for a president that takes a world tour apologizing for everything the US has ever done. What I posted about the 51 second speech was on the news. I did not make it up. I will make a great effort not to mention him again.

[MightyJordan]

8 hours ago, Unobscured Vision said:

They didn't just start doing this crap fifteen years ago, folks -- it's been going on since the late sixties when Arafat invented the concept of "Suicide Bombing". Yes, it was ARAFAT who came up with that idea. It all started with him. 

Not even close. The concept of suicide bombing was invented by Russians in the nineteenth century; that was how Alexander II was assassinated in 1881. http://origins.osu.edu/article/human-use-human-beings-brief-history-suicide-bombing

[NinjaGinger]

The next time somone in my area says crap like Islam is a religion of Peace, all it will prove to me is they have never read the Koran and a good wallop is required.

[Torolol]

Quote

Brussels; NATO; Terror

Ted Cruz trying to politicize the event use it to attack Trump stance on NATO: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/ted-cruz-donald-trump-brussels-attack-nato/index.html
 

Quote

 

Ted Cruz on Tuesday slammed his GOP presidential rival Donald Trump in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Brussels for calling for a diminished U.S. role in the NATO alliance just a day earlier.

"It is striking that the day after Donald Trump called for weakening NATO, withdrawing from NATO, we see Brussels, where NATO is headquartered, the subject of a radical Islamic terror attack," Cruz said Tuesday in a news conference hours after terrorists struck civilian targets in Brussels, where the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is headquartered.

 

 

so what is Trump stance about NATO? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-reveals-foreign-policy-team-in-meeting-with-the-washington-post/
 

Quote

 

Trump questions need for NATO, outlines noninterventionist foreign policy

 

"I do think it’s a different world today, and I don’t think we should be nation-building anymore," Trump said.

"I think it’s proven not to work, and we have a different country than we did then. We have $19 trillion in debt.

We’re sitting, probably, on a bubble. And it’s a bubble that if it breaks, it’s going to be very nasty. I just think we have to rebuild our country."

 

He added: "I watched as we built schools in Iraq and they’re blown up. We build another one, we get blown up.

We rebuild it three times and yet we can’t build a school in Brooklyn.

We have no money for education because we can’t build in our own country.

At what point do you say, 'Hey, we have to take care of ourselves?'

So, I know the outer world exists and I’ll be very cognizant of that. But at the same time, our country is disintegrating, large sections of it, especially the inner cities."

 

 

[Unobscured Vision]

2 hours ago, MightyJordan said:

Not even close. The concept of suicide bombing was invented by Russians in the nineteenth century; that was how Alexander II was assassinated in 1881. http://origins.osu.edu/article/human-use-human-beings-brief-history-suicide-bombing

 

3 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

Ok, now this is just funny. Using political or religious brainwashing and offering post-mortum rewards, whether to the person or the relatives, or just promising fame, as excisted long before Arafat... the concept is being around.

I was always taught that it was Arafat that started that mess. Very well; I stand corrected. (See how this works? If you're wrong, admit it, move along, everyone's cool? Yeah. )

[DefyTheOutcome]

 

13 hours ago, _Alexander said:

Various texts such as, but not limited to, the Koran and radicalized/conservative Imams.

 

This is not the side I am interested in. I am not that interested about the side of the preachers of hate, I am interested about the side of the people who listen to them and radicalize themselves.

Why is their propaganda so seductive and effective for people to leave rather nice life in Europe decide to go to fight in Syria or become terrorists?

 

Is it a vengeance against some perceived injustice in the world? The Palestine situation? Some sort of Zionist new world order conspiracy?

Is it peer pressure?

Is it deception/lies ? Some sort of romantic freedom fighters against oppressors or corruption?

Is it jealousy ? the guy next door has a better life than I have because he is

Is it greed ? the promise of a better life? of wealth? of 72 virgins

Is it loss of faith in the future ? a dead-end life with no opportunity?

Is it a value framework given by the influence of an authority figure because it brings a comfort zone?

 

What makes someone lose the value of his own life and decide to kill oneself for some cause?

 

Once we can figure out that, we can expose the preachers of hate and their lies.

[DocM]

The Federalist has ideas of how Europe got to this point. Comments?

 

http://thefederalist.com/2016/03/22/europes-fear-of-islamophobia-led-directly-to-the-belgium-attacks/
 

[MightyJordan]

15 hours ago, Unobscured Vision said:

I was always taught that it was Arafat that started that mess. Very well; I stand corrected. (See how this works? If you're wrong, admit it, move along, everyone's cool? Yeah. )

I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy nutjob, but it's worth questioning everything. There's a good chance a lot of what most of us got taught growing up is wrong (with ignorance, prejudice, or propaganda usually being the driving factors). I don't comment publicly on issues like this too often, as I always take the time to fact-check what I want to say before I post it; if I posted more often, then it'd really eat into my free time.  

[ctebah]

17 hours ago, Torolol said:

Ted Cruz trying to politicize the event use it to attack Trump stance on NATO: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/ted-cruz-donald-trump-brussels-attack-nato/index.html
 

 

so what is Trump stance about NATO? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-reveals-foreign-policy-team-in-meeting-with-the-washington-post/
 

 

I wonder what those that praise Trump will say about that.  From this speech, his foreign policy is very similar to Obamas.  It's about time U.S. Presidents and politicians realized that you can't fix everything with war.  

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

1 hour ago, ctebah said:

I wonder what those that praise Trump will say about that.  From this speech, his foreign policy is very similar to Obamas.  It's about time U.S. Presidents and politicians realized that you can't fix everything with war.  

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/03/23/lt-col-oliver-north-brussels-terror-attacks-best-kind-intelligence-human-intelligence

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/03/23/is-trains-400-fighters-to-attack-europe-in-wave-bloodshed.html?intcmp=hpbt1

[FunkyMike]

 

On 3/22/2016 at 9:55 PM, Rippleman said:

The oil crash (not actually a crash but an equalization that was a long time due) is the best fight against muslim extremists. Glad the crash happen, the effect will catch up to these guys over the next few years. Slows the spread of religious hate when it isn't financed well.

The Saudis that finance Wahhabism with one hand also keep the oil price down with the other. They won't back off this strategy since they have invested too much already.

 

Quote

 

The Belgian security services, as well as other Western intelligence agencies, had advance and precise intelligence warnings regarding the terrorist attacks in Belgium on Tuesday, Haaretz has learned.

 

The security services knew, with a high degree of certainty, that attacks were planned in the very near future for the airport and, apparently, for the subway as well.

 

Despite the advance warning, the intelligence and security preparedness in Brussels, where most of the European Union agencies are located, was limited in its scope and insufficient for the severity and immediacy of the alert.

 

As far as is known, the attacks were planned by the headquarters of the Islamic State (ISIS) in Raqqa, Syria, which it has pronounced as the capital of its Islamic caliphate.

 

The terror cell responsible for the attacks in Brussels on Tuesday was closely associated with the network behind the series of attacks in Paris last November. At this stage, it appears that both were part of the same terrorist infrastructure, connected at the top by the terrorist Salah Abdeslam, who was involved in both the preparation for the Paris attacks and its implementation.

 

Abdeslam escaped from Paris after the November attacks, hid out in Brussels and was arrested last week by the Belgian authorities.

 

Abdeslam's arrest was apparently the trigger for Tuesday's attacks, due to the concern in ISIS that he might give information about the planned attacks under interrogation, particularly in the light of reports that he was cooperating with his captors.

 

The testimony of the detained terrorist, alongside other intelligence information, part of which concerned ISIS operations in Syria, should have resulted in much more stringent security preparedness in crowded public places in Brussels, along with a heightened search for the cell.

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/1.710572 via: zh

 

 

[ctebah]

2 hours ago, Gary7 said:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/03/23/lt-col-oliver-north-brussels-terror-attacks-best-kind-intelligence-human-intelligence

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/03/23/is-trains-400-fighters-to-attack-europe-in-wave-bloodshed.html?intcmp=hpbt1

I'm not stupid enough to read Fox News garbage.  Besides, what was the point behind the two links?

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

10 minutes ago, ctebah said:

I'm not stupid enough to read Fox News garbage.  Besides, what was the point behind the two links?

You would have no idea unless you read the links. Stupidity has nothing to do with it.