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Let’s Admit It: Manual Transmissions Need to Go

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tehsteve86    2

Let's raise some more concerns with driving modern manual cars:

 

  • Annoying drive by wire gas pedals. In a manual car, do you need a 2 second delay when you press the gas pedal? This will mess up your normal launch and heal-toe until you get a lot of practice.
  • What happened to the clutches when you can "feel" the 3/4 of the way hardness and the last 1/4 is softer? This is so convenient to tell exactly when the cars begin to engage. My experience with modern manual cars, the entire travel of the pedal feels very linear. Now you have to apply quicker revs to get moving because you never can feel where the heck engagement is on your clutch.
  • Clutch Delay Pill - automatic clutch slippage. I can drive manual, I don't need the extra wear and tear. Makes the clutch pedal feel like it's "bite" is wandering around.
  • Hydrolic clutches self adjust - this time the bite is really wandering around. Makes the clutch feel different day to day. Give me a cable clutch & I will set it at where I like it.
  • I think bullet #2 is related to bullets #3-#4.

 

Just some of my gripes that take away from the true "manual" experience. Yes I've been driving manual all my life too.

 

 

 

 

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BinaryData    777

As a guy, I prefer Manual to automatic. Why? Well I'm glad you asked!

 

1. Mudding is far easier when you can control the gear you're in.

2. Hauling anything is easier when you can manipulate RPMs, and gears.

3. Changing your gear ratio so can handle something easier.

4. Finding that peak RPM when driving fast, is so much easier to do when you can manipulate and time things.

5. 4-Wheel Drive is that much easier with rpm manipulation.

 

With that said, clearly these people are basing their opinions off the generic and standard driver. Frankly, I think trucks should be owned by every day users, I think people should be forced to drive an economical vehicle. I'm sick of seeing these jacked up trucks that have big ass tires that went from 15 - 20mpg to 5 - 8mpg because of what they've done. Sorry, your truck doesn't need 44s to pull a trailer, you only look like an idiot.

 

I have 2 trucks, 2 cars.

 

1. 2012 Ford Fusion (Automatic with manual transmission option, I rarely use the manual part because I'm lazy) | Automatic

2. My brothers Subaru. | Automatic

3. 1979 Ford F-150 v8 6.6L Engine (400) | Automatic

4. 1996 Ford F-150 Inline 6 with a 3.3L I think (327) | Manual

 

The only reason the 79 isn't scrapped is because we put 1 Ton of dirt in the back, and it had no problems.

 

tl;dr

My point is; it all depends on what YOU do. My brother and I are rednecks who love mudding, having house parties, house boat parties, etc. I use the 79 Ford for hauling Lumber and concrete. I do have to say that non-sports cars, and trucks should have the option for a manual transmission.

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Thomas the Tank Engine    420
2 minutes ago, BinaryData said:

As a guy, I prefer Manual to automatic.

So you love to drive stick shift.... :p

 

You may or may not understand that....

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TAZMINATOR    12,416

Manual is easy.  But be careful when you are on the hill.  You might hit someone behind you or in front of you. Once you are good enough on flat road... and you are used to it. then you are set to go. You can shift it without thinking ...

 

I like PDK in cars ....  Porsche for example.

 

If you have not heard about it, then read here.

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+Mirumir    5,635

The manual tranny is already sadly gone forever on some legendary models, the M5 for example.

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BinaryData    777
7 minutes ago, TAZMINATOR said:

Manual is easy.  But be careful when you are on the hill.  You might hit someone behind you or in front of you. Once you are good enough on flat road... and you are used to it. then you are set to go. You can shift it without thinking ...

 

I like PDK in cars ....  Porsche for example.

 

If you have not heard about it, then read here.

It's not that hard to counter that, before you release the clutch, feed it more gas/diesel. Also, if the person behind you creeps up on your ass, it isn't your fault. It's theirs, at least it is in the states. You're supposed to leave a specific amount of room between you and the vehicle in front. If you can see the tires touching the pavement, you can creep up until they start to disappear. it's generally 1 - 3ft difference. PDK is the shifting with the hands, isn't it?

5 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

The manual tranny is already sadly gone forever on some legendary models, the M5 for example.

Kind of good.

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sc302    1,735
1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Not true at all. Most "traction control" systems just won't give power to wheels that are slipping. In some situations, it's counter productive (heavy snow) since you're slipping the entire time and *any* wheel movement is helpful to get you moving forward. I've had times where my car would refuse to go forward because the wheels were slipping on packed snow until I turned off TCS. TCS can be useful in some situations, but not all. Plus all modern manual cars have TCS, standard. 

 

Manuals give you a lot more control over slowing down than an auto does. Going down a hill with snow, I can down-shift to 2nd and engine brake. Most people in an automatic would just slam on their brakes and slide all over. Seen it happen probably a dozen times a year on the road/hill by my house. Also, especially in small 4-cyl cars, a manual usually has better acceleration, not to mention, I can keep it in 3rd gear at highway speeds to pass where an automatic would have to sense me flooring it to downshift and get the pickup I need.  

 

The issue is that people are lazy. My girlfriend even said "This is too much to think about". Reality is that once you've done it for a few months, you stop thinking. I know my car well enough that I know how the engine sounds at various RPMs and can completely zone out and not think about shifting at all. 

Traction control up a hill would have to be turned off (I have had to do this).  I have been in both vehicles during different types of weather, almost at the same time, I can can tell you that an automatic was better at controlling the vehicle than the manual was at loss of traction on a flat road.  The automatic, if used properly, can also downshift to help slow the car down with brakes applied.  But without downshifting either car, the automatic was better. 

 

Yes all manual cars have tcs standard, but tcs does not control the transmission at that point...you cannot shift fast enough to correct when the car is sideways unless you have trained a lot for that condition.

 

Manuals do not give you more control to slow down, I can engine brake with my cvt almost as well as a manual (again having both cars side by side at almost the same time, different cars/different weights though so not a real fair comparison but well enough).  I was able to 360/720/1080 easier in the manual with far less corrective control than the automatic...  The automatic was harder to break into a spin, possible but harder to do.  I am able to read an automatic better/easier and can push it hard/faster than I can a manual in the same weather which is usually 10-20 mph faster than most other people on the road with good tires, 5-10 with crappy tires.   Does that make me a bad driver, no.  I have not had an accident or loss of traction in an automatic running 200-500 miles a day in 20 years in inclement weather.

 

You are right, after you know how to drive manual, it becomes second nature and you forget you are doing it. 

 

Try taking a few classes from places that have a skid car that can simulate different situations.  It might be an eye opener, esp if they have the different transmissions.  You will find how much control and ability you really do have, or not have. 

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BinaryData    777
8 minutes ago, sc302 said:

Traction control up a hill would have to be turned off (I have had to do this).  I have been in both vehicles during different types of weather, almost at the same time, I can can tell you that an automatic was better at controlling the vehicle than the manual was at loss of traction on a flat road.  The automatic, if used properly, can also downshift to help slow the car down with brakes applied.  But without downshifting either car, the automatic was better. 

 

Yes all manual cars have tcs standard, but tcs does not control the transmission at that point...you cannot shift fast enough to correct when the car is sideways unless you have trained a lot for that condition.

 

Manuals do not give you more control to slow down, I can engine brake with my cvt almost as well as a manual (again having both cars side by side at almost the same time, different cars/different weights though so not a real fair comparison but well enough).  I was able to 360/720/1080 easier in the manual with far less corrective control than the automatic...basically the manual I was along for the ride longer.  The automatic was harder to break into a spin. 

 

You are right, after you know how to drive manual, it becomes second nature and you forget you are doing it. 

I agree, the general populace should drive automatics. Then again, I've never met anyone who could drive a manual in the snow without screwing something up. Seattle people are notorious for wrecks where I live. They think driving in the rain means they can drive in snow. Not the case :p

 

I'll always love my manual, burn outs are so much more fun.

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Thomas the Tank Engine    420
33 minutes ago, TAZMINATOR said:

Manual is easy.

If that is what you started with & having been driving for years.

 

For me, it's never going to be an option.  If I was to win the lottery, I'd buy a real sports car, and ask them to find a way to put automatic transmission in place of manual.

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TDT    280

I would NEVER prefer automatic over manual. For me, automatic transmission is the lazy people's transmission. I know it's much more comfortable and some people like that over other aspects, but in my case I would rather enjoy the feeling of really being in control and drive however I wish. Also, there's another important aspect. In many cases, the automatic gearbox costs almost a quarter of the car's price, so if it breaks and can't be repaired, you're pretty much ######ed. Not many mechanics can repair an automatic gearbox, so...

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BinaryData    777
9 minutes ago, Thomas the Tank Engine said:

If that is what you started with & having been driving for years.

 

For me, it's never going to be an option.  If I was to win the lottery, I'd buy a real sports car, and ask them to find a way to put automatic transmission in place of manual.

I find manuals to also be easier to work on, frankly, you can get a manual almost anywhere.

3 minutes ago, TDT said:

I would NEVER prefer automatic over manual. For me, automatic transmission is the lazy people's transmission. I know it's much more comfortable and some people like that over other aspects, but in my case I would rather enjoy the feeling of really being in control and drive however I wish. Also, there's another important aspect. In many cases, the automatic gearbox costs almost a quarter of the car's price, so if it breaks and can't be repaired, you're pretty much ######ed. Not many mechanics can repair an automatic gearbox, so...

Yup. Manual is much cheaper to work on, doesn't require fancy tools or parts. Plus, junk yards baby!

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+Gary7    7,372

My Acura can be driven either way. I always use the Automatic mode.

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TAZMINATOR    12,416
36 minutes ago, BinaryData said:

It's not that hard to counter that, before you release the clutch, feed it more gas/diesel. Also, if the person behind you creeps up on your ass, it isn't your fault. It's theirs, at least it is in the states. You're supposed to leave a specific amount of room between you and the vehicle in front. If you can see the tires touching the pavement, you can creep up until they start to disappear. it's generally 1 - 3ft difference. PDK is the shifting with the hands, isn't it?

I know that. I have seen people roll backward when trying to take off before they push the gas panel more on the hill.  Young drivers are new or less experience to the manual. That's why the drivers sometimes forget about that.  and go 'oops'

 

With PDK, You can either manual or auto..  If manual, you can shift with that stick in floor.. or use the flippers behind the wheel.  If auto, use the stick and leave it alone.

 

 

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JustGeorge    1,658

Why do manual transmissions need to go away simply because someone else doesn't like them? They should stick around as long as people continue to buy them.

 

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TAZMINATOR    12,416
22 minutes ago, Thomas the Tank Engine said:

If that is what you started with & having been driving for years.

Yes  I drove manual in my younger days.  No problem.   I told my dad I want a truck with a stick... he was like 'You haven't used a stick before'  I laughed at him and said to him "Not believe me? Get the keys and we go for a ride."  He grabbed the keys and I drove out for a ride ...  His jaw dropped and said "Where did you learn it from?"    Hahahah.. 

 

 

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Riva    1,175

Dude, please, please

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Thomas the Tank Engine    420

Automatic is where it's at for me, to each their own.

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Bamsebjørn    745

I liked automatic, but manual has my preference... until I switch to an electric car (probably my next car will be electric): No more choice then.

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adrynalyne    12,152

Manuals are great, when you don't have stop and go traffic. 

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tsupersonic    1,818
6 hours ago, Mirumir said:

The manual tranny is already sadly gone forever on some legendary models, the M5 for example.

Wrong. BMW is one of the very few manufacturers that offers manuals on their lineup. The F10 M5 (current gen.) can be had with a manual as a no cost option. It comes standard with a DCT.

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Sikh    192

Personally I like driving a manual because I have more control over my car especially in snow. I like in a place that gets a lot of snow and in an automatic i see people get stuck and wheels still spinning. In my manual, I can keep it in first and get out of any stuck snow and then shift up.

Opinions or not, i dont see anything wrong with keeping a manual

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adrynalyne    12,152
9 minutes ago, tsupersonic said:

Wrong. BMW is one of the very few manufacturers that offers manuals on their lineup. The F10 M5 (current gen.) can be had with a manual as a no cost option. It comes standard with a DCT.

BMW has been phasing them out/ arent as common as they once were.

 

6 hours ago, BinaryData said:

As a guy, I prefer Manual to automatic. Why? Well I'm glad you asked!

 

1. Mudding is far easier when you can control the gear you're in.

2. Hauling anything is easier when you can manipulate RPMs, and gears.

3. Changing your gear ratio so can handle something easier.

4. Finding that peak RPM when driving fast, is so much easier to do when you can manipulate and time things.

5. 4-Wheel Drive is that much easier with rpm manipulation.

 

With that said, clearly these people are basing their opinions off the generic and standard driver. Frankly, I think trucks should be owned by every day users, I think people should be forced to drive an economical vehicle. I'm sick of seeing these jacked up trucks that have big ass tires that went from 15 - 20mpg to 5 - 8mpg because of what they've done. Sorry, your truck doesn't need 44s to pull a trailer, you only look like an idiot.

 

I have 2 trucks, 2 cars.

 

1. 2012 Ford Fusion (Automatic with manual transmission option, I rarely use the manual part because I'm lazy) | Automatic

2. My brothers Subaru. | Automatic

3. 1979 Ford F-150 v8 6.6L Engine (400) | Automatic

4. 1996 Ford F-150 Inline 6 with a 3.3L I think (327) | Manual

 

The only reason the 79 isn't scrapped is because we put 1 Ton of dirt in the back, and it had no problems.

 

tl;dr

My point is; it all depends on what YOU do. My brother and I are rednecks who love mudding, having house parties, house boat parties, etc. I use the 79 Ford for hauling Lumber and concrete. I do have to say that non-sports cars, and trucks should have the option for a manual transmission.

You can change your gear ratio on an auto too.

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tsupersonic    1,818
6 hours ago, TAZMINATOR said:

Manual is easy.  But be careful when you are on the hill.  You might hit someone behind you or in front of you. Once you are good enough on flat road... and you are used to it. then you are set to go. You can shift it without thinking ...

 

Most new cars have some sort of hill start assist, even on manuals. That should prevent you from rolling back. I wish people in general would leave more space between cars on hills though! 

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The Evil Overlord    18,441
8 hours ago, MikeChipshop said:

A lot of people enjoy driving as a hobby. For them automatic gearboxes just are never going to recreate the same feel.

Manual doesn't "Need" to go any where. 

Thank you, this sums up what I was about to say in a much more diplomatic way that I had intended to post.

Manuals are cheaper on maintenance than quite a lot of automatic transmissions, not to mention more economical in regards to 'miles per gallon' when used in the correct manner, most of the time when a manual needs maintenance, it's usually fixed by simply replacing the clutch plate, a good example of this is Mercedes cars, I almost bought a 2000 E320D as it was going dirt cheap, until I realised it needed a new trans, which at the time was going to cost more than 6 times what the car was selling for <pity really, as there was absolutely nothing else wrong with the car, no dents or scratches, very little interior wear etc..>)

Driving for me is a pleasure, and I like the mechanical feel of having to select my own gear when I'm ready to, and not when the car decides it, not only that, it gives my left foot something to do when driving normally. (under race conditions I left foot brake, or heel and toe brake, depending on the situation - and I'm talking about track days, not public roads)

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adrynalyne    12,152
5 minutes ago, Aheer.R.S. said:

Thank you, this sums up what I was about to say in a much more diplomatic way that I had intended to post.

Manuals are cheaper on maintenance than quite a lot of automatic transmissions, not to mention more economical in regards to 'miles per gallon' when used in the correct manner, most of the time when a manual needs maintenance, it's usually fixed by simply replacing the clutch plate, a good example of this is Mercedes cars, I almost bought a 2000 E320D as it was going dirt cheap, until I realised it needed a new trans, which at the time was going to cost more than 6 times what the car was selling for <pity really, as there was absolutely nothing else wrong with the car, no dents or scratches, very little interior wear etc..>)

Driving for me is a pleasure, and I like the mechanical feel of having to select my own gear when I'm ready to, and not when the car decides it, not only that, it gives my left foot something to do when driving normally. (under race conditions I left foot brake, or heel and toe brake, depending on the situation - and I'm talking about track days, not public roads)

Recent automatics have become more economic than manuals.  I have an auto, not because I wanted one, but because my wife refuses to learn manual. That and I got into a head on collision 13 years ago that shoved the clutch pedal into my left foot on impact and it hasn't been the same since.

 

Between paddles and sports mode, I have just learned to deal with it.

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