Let’s Admit It: Manual Transmissions Need to Go

[The Evil Overlord]

8 hours ago, Thomas the Tank Engine said:

Here in Canada -- I know for sure in AB -- that you actually have a choice of what type of transmission you want to learn while taking driving lessons.

In the UK, if you pass your test in an auto, you will have to retake your test in a manual, otherwise you are not licensed to drive it, pass in a manual, and you are licensed to drive both.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Aheer.R.S.

[tsupersonic]

1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

BMW has been phasing them out.

The only M cars you can't get in manuals are the SUV's: X5M and X6M. The other cars in their lineup at least have options for manual transmissions. Their main competition - Mercedes is primarily auto only, and I don't think Audi offers manuals anymore either (not 100% sure). BMW is more performance oriented compared to the other two - they still offer RWD and manuals. 

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, tsupersonic said:

The only M cars you can't get in manuals are the SUV's: X5M and X6M. The other cars in their lineup at least have options for manual transmissions. Their main competition - Mercedes is primarily auto only, and I don't think Audi offers manuals anymore either (not 100% sure). BMW is more performance oriented compared to the other two - they still offer RWD and manuals. 

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/03/01/bmws-that-dont-have-manuals-but-should/

 

Not trying to be difficult btw, just linking this.

[adrynalyne]

8 minutes ago, Aheer.R.S. said:

Same in the UK, if you pass your test in an auto, you will have to retake your test in a manual, otherwise you are not licensed to drive it, pass in a manual, and you are licensed to drive both.

You are licensed for both here.

 

Not that manual is hard...some people make it sound way more difficult than it is.  I learned...on a a friend's Yugo.  Then I drove a gutless Nissan Pulsar that stalled constantly. Then I drove a Jeep Commanche that had a bad injector, anything above 3500-4000 rpms would cut the fuel and the car would sputter and try to die.  Now THAT was a challenge to drive.

 

My fav was a Spec V...more torque than HP and quite light.  Sadly...

 

 

 

[tsupersonic]

1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/03/01/bmws-that-dont-have-manuals-but-should/

 

Not trying to be difficult btw, just linking this.

Yeah, the non-M 5/6/7 series don't have manual options. The 7 series is really a luxobarge, generally driven (or driven in) by people who don't associate with manuals. The X1 would be cool in a manual, although not sure the demand would be there. I generally see X1/X3/X5 driven by soccer mom's. I'm surprised BMW offers manuals - that demand must be low (at least in the US)

[The Evil Overlord]

8 hours ago, sc302 said:

manuals don't need to go anywhere.  They are fine right where they are.  Sometimes you just want to row the gears. 

 

More control in autox yes, more control in inclement weather not really to not at all.  What gives you more control in inclement weather isn't a manual it is the traction control system with an automatic.  Older cars do not have this, but at this point it is just old people fodder that states you have more control with an automatic in inclement weather.  Your brain and shifting capabilities can not keep up with the millions of calculations that the traction control systems is doing and noticing the slightest increase/decrease of wheel spin, by the time you feel it it could be too late. 

Not necessarily, driver skill can be a factor, An example I can give from experience, was an S type Jag auto with tc, it barely moved off from the lights on a snowed in road uphill, and caused congestion, I felt for the driver as it wasn't his fault, as this was my good Samaritan deed for the day, I got past him in a rear wheel drive V6 Omega that is a manual, hooked up his car to my tow bar, turned off my traction control and just let er rip, we were moving as soon as my car dug in (he was in drive also which helped, it wasn't all me) there are times tc can be non beneficial, but on the whole, tc is a good thing

[adrynalyne]

2 minutes ago, Aheer.R.S. said:

Not necessarily, driver skill can be a factor, An example I can give from experience, was an S type Jag auto with tc, it barely moved off from the lights on a snowed in road uphill, and caused congestion, I felt for the driver as it wasn't his fault, as this was my good Samaritan deed for the day, I got past him in a rear wheel drive V6 Omega that is a manual, hooked up his car to my tow bar, turned off my traction control and just let er rip, we were moving as soon as my car dug in (he was in drive also which helped, it wasn't all me) there are times tc can be non beneficial, but on the whole, tc is a good thing

Tires may have played more a role in that than anything else.

 

 

 

[The Evil Overlord]

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

Not true at all. Most "traction control" systems just won't give power to wheels that are slipping. In some situations, it's counter productive (heavy snow) since you're slipping the entire time and *any* wheel movement is helpful to get you moving forward. I've had times where my car would refuse to go forward because the wheels were slipping on packed snow until I turned off TCS. TCS can be useful in some situations, but not all. Plus all modern manual cars have TCS, standard. 

 

Manuals give you a lot more control over slowing down than an auto does. Going down a hill with snow, I can down-shift to 2nd and engine brake. Most people in an automatic would just slam on their brakes and slide all over. Seen it happen probably a dozen times a year on the road/hill by my house. Also, especially in small 4-cyl cars, a manual usually has better acceleration, not to mention, I can keep it in 3rd gear at highway speeds to pass where an automatic would have to sense me flooring it to downshift and get the pickup I need.  

 

The issue is that people are lazy. My girlfriend even said "This is too much to think about". Reality is that once you've done it for a few months, you stop thinking. I know my car well enough that I know how the engine sounds at various RPMs and can completely zone out and not think about shifting at all. 

Exactly  

[The Evil Overlord]

7 hours ago, BinaryData said:

As a guy, I prefer Manual to automatic. Why? Well I'm glad you asked!

 

1. Mudding is far easier when you can control the gear you're in.

2. Hauling anything is easier when you can manipulate RPMs, and gears.

3. Changing your gear ratio so can handle something easier.

4. Finding that peak RPM when driving fast, is so much easier to do when you can manipulate and time things.

5. 4-Wheel Drive is that much easier with rpm manipulation.

 

With that said, clearly these people are basing their opinions off the generic and standard driver. Frankly, I think trucks should be owned by every day users, I think people should be forced to drive an economical vehicle. I'm sick of seeing these jacked up trucks that have big ass tires that went from 15 - 20mpg to 5 - 8mpg because of what they've done. Sorry, your truck doesn't need 44s to pull a trailer, you only look like an idiot.

 

I have 2 trucks, 2 cars.

 

1. 2012 Ford Fusion (Automatic with manual transmission option, I rarely use the manual part because I'm lazy) | Automatic

2. My brothers Subaru. | Automatic

3. 1979 Ford F-150 v8 6.6L Engine (400) | Automatic

4. 1996 Ford F-150 Inline 6 with a 3.3L I think (327) | Manual

 

The only reason the 79 isn't scrapped is because we put 1 Ton of dirt in the back, and it had no problems.

 

tl;dr

My point is; it all depends on what YOU do. My brother and I are rednecks who love mudding, having house parties, house boat parties, etc. I use the 79 Ford for hauling Lumber and concrete. I do have to say that non-sports cars, and trucks should have the option for a manual transmission.

Agreed, I used to be a Truck Driver by profession, and the bolded part of your post applied to me  

[The Evil Overlord]

7 hours ago, TAZMINATOR said:

Manual is easy.  But be careful when you are on the hill.  You might hit someone behind you or in front of you. Once you are good enough on flat road... and you are used to it. then you are set to go. You can shift it without thinking ...

 

I like PDK in cars ....  Porsche for example.

 

If you have not heard about it, then read here.

Not really, preparing to set on uphill in a manual, you can find the bite point on the clutch and rest on that for a few seconds without incident. a long wait, then use the handbrake, look at the traffic flow, if it looks like your lane is about to set off, bite point again.

[The Evil Overlord]

30 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Recent automatics have become more economic than manuals.  I have an auto, not because I wanted one, but because my wife refuses to learn manual. That and I got into a head on collision 13 years ago that shoved the clutch pedal into my left foot on impact and it hasn't been the same since.

 

Between paddles and sports mode, I have just learned to deal with it.

Sorry to hear about your RTC, it sucks when it's severe enough to do damage, I can sympathise as my dad was in a head on RTC back in '85, he almost had to be amputated to be released from his van.

Old cars are all the same in that manner, no collapsible pedals or other collapsible controls.

[adrynalyne]

Just now, Aheer.R.S. said:

Sorry to hear about your RTC, it sucks when it's severe enough to do damage, I can sympathise as my dad was in a head on RTC back in '85, he almost had to be amputated to be released from his van.

Old cars are all the same in that manner, no collapsible pedals or other collapsible controls.

Terrible

[The Evil Overlord]

28 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

You are licensed for both here.

 

Not that manual is hard...some people make it sound way more difficult than it is.  I learned...on a a friend's Yugo.  Then I drove a gutless Nissan Pulsar that stalled constantly. Then I drove a Jeep Commanche that had a bad injector, anything above 3500-4000 rpms would cut the fuel and the car would sputter and try to die.  Now THAT was a challenge to drive.

 

My fav was a Spec V...more torque than HP and quite light.  Sadly...

 

 

 

Was that your car? Glad you're mostly ok, (I mean that in earnest) as you've driven manuals I won't go into details, but for anyone else, it becomes instinctive VERY quickly as to when and how to shift gears

[TAZMINATOR]

4 minutes ago, Aheer.R.S. said:

Not really, preparing to set on uphill in a manual, you can find the bite point on the clutch and rest on that for a few seconds without incident. a long wait, then use the handbrake, look at the traffic flow, if it looks like your lane is about to set off, bite point again.

I know that.. like I said be careful on the hills... You never know there is a new driver driving on the hill and might end up hitting you by rolling backward.  Or maybe they are not used to drive manual after been driving automatic for long time.   

 

 

[adrynalyne]

7 minutes ago, Aheer.R.S. said:

Was that your car? Glad you're mostly ok, (I mean that in earnest) as you've driven manuals I won't go into details, but for anyone else, it becomes instinctive VERY quickly as to when and how to shift gears

Yeah. Someone tried to pass into oncoming traffic (me), lost control, spun out and hit me doing 50mph...sideways. I was going 60. I was the only one to walk away. A passerby had to pry my door out from the fender jamming it...then the car caught fire.

 

I didnt even have time to take it out of 6th, just slam the brakes and clutch.

 

 

[The Evil Overlord]

37 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Tires may have played more a role in that than anything else.

 

 

 

Fun fun fun I try to only buy Uniroyals, I think I had Uniroyal Rallye tyres when the tow incident happened,

Edited March 25, 2016 by Aheer.R.S.

[adrynalyne]

Just now, Aheer.R.S. said:

Fun fun fun I try to only buy Uniroyals, I think I had RainSport tyres when the tow incident happened,

I'm a big Continental fan. My current car has Pirellis, but I don't really like them. They look nice, but the grip....terrible.

[The Evil Overlord]

4 minutes ago, TAZMINATOR said:

I know that.. like I said be careful on the hills... You never know there is a new driver driving on the hill and might end up hitting you by rolling backward.  Or maybe they are not used to drive manual after been driving automatic for long time.   

 

 

Ahh, I hear yer!

[Thomas the Tank Engine]

43 minutes ago, Aheer.R.S. said:

In the UK, if you pass your test in an auto, you will have to retake your test in a manual, otherwise you are not licensed to drive it, pass in a manual, and you are licensed to drive both.

Interesting way of doing things.  In Canada, it doesn't matter in what transmission you learn to drive with, when you get a license, you can drive both.

[+rdlenk Subscriber²]

I found the article really thought provoking. He isn't saying that manuals are bad but that the term 'manual transmissions' no longer mean the same thing and that no modern car actually has a true manual trans anymore. The cars the claim to have one basically start with an automatic and remove functionality. Even a post above talked about all modern "manuals" having traction control which means that the driver at no point actually has real, physical manual control of the drive-train, there is a computer in between. Its just an illusion of manual control.

 

First, I am fairly certain he is only really talking about performance cars and an "automatic transmission" can mean very different things in that world. The automatic transmission in my 14 year old Ford F-150 is terrible in just about every way possible but the automatic transmission in a Bugatti Veryon is, well, not terrible at all.

 

Also, all the people talking about "downshifting for hills" or "controlling the revs" or whatever, you can do all of that with an automatic too. Yea in a crappy auto like my truck you have very limited control but in a modern auto with electronic gear shifting you can absolutely pick and choose your gears and revs and have just as much control.

 

Overall, I agreed with the article. Modern performance cars with manuals are pointless because they aren't true manuals and that the experience of true control and performance is now found in the modern automatics. He also makes it clear that the best driving experience possible is in a classic manual and that it no longer exists in almost any respect in today's cars.

[The Evil Overlord]

1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

I'm a big Continental fan. My current car has Pirellis, but I don't really like them. They look nice, but the grip....terrible.

A personal note, give em a try, I'll never go anything but uni's

A personal experience incoming

 

I used to have a Mitsubishi Galant GTI (1992 model year) it had goodyears (I forget the exact ones) and the car although was decent in the corners in the dry, it absolutely SUCKED in the wet, I was scared of using this car when it rained, to the point I was going to scrap the car, then the car's M.O.T. was due (D.O.T. Annual Vehicle Inspection for our brothers in the States)  And the Mechanic was shocked to hear how bad this car was, he offered me a discount on a set of Uniroyal RainSports and I was like, whatever, but once I drive in the rain, it was like driving a totally different car, The grip in the dry was decent to great, but in the wet, I could throw this car into corners with full confidence at speeds that were silly, and know I'll come out the other side.

 

Also on a side note, I updated my earlier post as I remembered when I was posting this, my Omega had Rallye 4x4 tyres, it was my Galant that had the RainSports

[adrynalyne]

8 minutes ago, Thomas the Tank Engine said:

Interesting way of doing things.  In Canada, it doesn't matter in what transmission you learn to drive with, when you get a license, you can drive both.

Its smart, really. Getting your license in an auto and not knowing a manual gives a false sense of ability.

 

Motorcycle licenses are separate, manuals should be too.

[The Evil Overlord]

4 minutes ago, rdlenk said:

I found the article really thought provoking. He isn't saying that manuals are bad but that the term 'manual transmissions' no longer mean the same thing and that no modern car actually has a true manual trans anymore. The cars the claim to have one basically start with an automatic and remove functionality. Even a post above talked about all modern "manuals" having traction control which means that the driver at no point actually has real, physical manual control of the drive-train, there is a computer in between. Its just an illusion of manual control.

 

First, I am fairly certain he is only really talking about performance cars and an "automatic transmission" can mean very different things in that world. The automatic transmission in my 14 year old Ford F-150 is terrible in just about every way possible but the automatic transmission in a Bugatti Veryon is, well, not terrible at all.

 

Also, all the people talking about "downshifting for hills" or "controlling the revs" or whatever, you can do all of that with an automatic too. Yea in a crappy auto like my truck you have very limited control but in a modern auto with electronic gear shifting you can absolutely pick and choose your gears and revs and have just as much control.

 

Overall, I agreed with the article. Modern performance cars with manuals are pointless because they aren't true manuals and that the experience of true control and performance is now found in the modern automatics. He also makes it clear that the best driving experience possible is in a classic manual and that it no longer exists in almost any respect in today's cars.

I like your response to this, on my posts I was speaking purely from experiences I've had, and so was only speaking for myself, I just felt a need to post this as the tc in a Vauxhall Omega is switchable, off or on, no other settings. the one computer you have absolutely no control over in one of those is the ABS system, but almost 100% of regular commuter drivers don't need to turn that off anyway  

[Thomas the Tank Engine]

14 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Its smart, really. Getting your license in an auto and not knowing a manual gives a false sense of ability.

 

Motorcycle licenses are separate, manuals should be too.

Here are the licensing rules in Alberta -- I have lived in 3 other provinces as well, but never tried to get a driver's license before last yet:

 

Driver's Licence

How it works

Find out how to get a driver’s licence in Alberta.

Alberta has 7 classes of driver’s licences, ranging from a Class 7 learner’s licence to a Class 1 professional licence. The class that you need will depend on your level of experience and the type of vehicle you want to drive.

New drivers must follow some steps before they can legally drive in the province.

Graduated Driver’s Licence (GDL)

New drivers must go through the GDL program to get the support, skills, and experience they need to earn a full Class 5 licence.

If you have held a Class 7 learner’s licence for at least 1 year, are 16 years of age and older and have passed a Class 5 basic road test, you may join the GDL program.

While driving with a Class 5-GDL licence, the following rules apply:

• each passenger must wear a seatbelt
• a GDL licence will be suspended at 8 demerit points
• blood alcohol level of the driver must be 0 percent
• class 1, 2, 3, or 4 licence upgrades are not allowed 
• a GDL driver cannot be the accompanying driver to a learner

To upgrade from a GDL licence to a full Class 5 licence, you must:

• be 18 years of age and older
• pass an advanced road test
• hold a probationary driver’s licence – Class 5-GDL – for at least 2 years
• have no suspensions in your last year before applying for a full driver’s licence (a suspension will increase the time you must remain in the GDL program)
• pass a Class 5 or Class 6 Advanced Road Test.

Types of licences

Alberta has seven classes of driver’s licences: 

Class 1 - Professional

Allows you to drive:

• any motor vehicle other than a motorcycle
• a motorcycle as a learner.

Class 2 – Professional (bus)

Allows you to drive:

• any motor vehicle that the holder of a Class 3, 4 or 5 driver’s licence is allowed to drive
• a bus
• a Class 1 or 6 vehicle as a learner.

Class 3 – Non-professional (3 axles or more)

Allows you to drive:

• any motor vehicle that the holder of a Class 5 licence may drive
• a single motor vehicle with 3 or more axles
• a motor vehicle with 3 or more axles that is towing a trailer with one or more axles (if the trailer is not equipped with airbrakes)
• a Class 2 or 4 type vehicle without passengers  (bus, taxi, ambulance)
• a Class 1, 2 or 6 vehicle as a learner

You may not drive:

• a vehicle that can seat more than 15 people including the driver
• that transports passengers for hire

Class 4 – Professional (taxi, ambulance)

Allows you to drive:

• a taxi, ambulance or bus (including a school or kindergarten bus) that seats fewer than 25 people including the driver
• all motor vehicles included under Class 5
• a Class 1, 2, 3 or 6 vehicle as a learner

Class 5 Full, Class 5-GDL – 2 axle, car, light truck, motor home, or moped

Allows you to:

• drive a two-axle single motor vehicle
• drive a motorhome without airbrakes unless you hold an air brake certificate
• tow a trailer with one or more axles if the trailer is not equipped with airbrakes
• drive a moped, a recreational vehicle, or any combination of recreational vehicles and a trailer, if the trailer has two axles or less, and isn’t equipped with airbrakes

*see Graduated Driver’s Licence (GDL) for specific restrictions if you hold a Class-5 GDL.

Class 6 – Motorcycle & moped

Allows you to drive:

• a motorcycle or moped
• all other motor vehicles under class 5 as a learner.

If you already have a Class 5 driver’s licence, you’ll need to take a Class 6 knowledge and road tests.

If you don’t already hold a Class 5, you’ll need to complete all the requirements of a Class 7, pass a Class 6 road test, and be placed in the GDL program before you can get a full Class 6 licence.

 

Class 7 – Learners

Allows you to drive:

• a moped
• other class 5 or 6 vehicles as a learner

Licence suspensions

Drivers guilty of a crime involving the use or control of a motor vehicle may have their licence suspended or disqualified.

It is illegal to drive with a licence that has been suspended or disqualified. 

Licenced drivers who have a demerit suspension can apply for a restricted licence. The Restricted Operator’s Licence Program helps people who need to drive for employment, health, or educational reasons while they are serving a demerit suspension. Certain restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Drivers in the GDL program are not eligible.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Thomas the Tank Engine

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

11 hours ago, Gary7 said:

My Acura can be driven either way. I always use the Automatic mode.

 

 

6 hours ago, tsupersonic said:

Wrong. BMW is one of the very few manufacturers that offers manuals on their lineup. The F10 M5 (current gen.) can be had with a manual as a no cost option. It comes standard with a DCT.

My car is equipped with a DSG, which is technically a dual-clutch manual robot.

 

However, if your car doesn't have a physical clutch than it doesn't have a manual transmission in the classical sense. That F10 M5 comes equipped with manual to U.S. market only.