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Never10 a new GRC utility from Steve Gibson.

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+warwagon    11,946
Quote

 

Everyone, (Steve Gibson Talking)

 

I have to confess that I have just stolen a day and a half (that 

I didn't have) from work on GRC's SQRL client to quickly create 

a new GRC utility: Never10.

 

Two unsophisticated people who depend upon me for tech support 

were recently "hit with" Windows 10 after the upgrade recently 

switched from recommended to important status. And they became 

totally and utterly lost (in one case hysterical).  And in one 

case it was impossible to revert their system to Windows 7, 

which they understood how to use and navigate. So I lost a TON 

of time getting them back to where they were.

 

Since it seems extremely unlikely that Microsoft is EVER going 

to terminate their "free upgrade to Windows 10", and since Win 

10 is such a gut-wrenching change from Windows 7 for those who 

simply do not want it, I decided to take a day to create a new 

piece of GRC freeware which simply and cleanly solves the 

problem.

 

This is mostly a simple front-end on a registry editor which 

uses Microsoft's own new switches introduced into Windows Update 

back last July to gracefully prevent Windows OS upgrading.

 

I was in too much of a hurry, though, so I made a mistake that

I will correct immediately: I assumed that the July update 

additions would NOT be incorporated into all future updates, so 

I bundled FOUR versions of that July update into the utility, 

for Windows 7 and v8.1 in each of x86 and x64. This made the 

utility ENORMOUS by GRC's standards... at 12mb. Then, during 

testing, I subsequently discovered that all of the systems I was 

testing on already had later versions of the Windows Update 

Agent... and that they all therefore knew how to interpret the 

registry entries.

 

So I will immediately be removing the internally bundled updates 

from the utility and will ONLY download and install the latest 

version from Microsoft if the one presently installed in the 

system is too old to understand the registry entries.

 

In testing this I also discovered that even if Microsoft had 

pre-downloaded the 3 gigabyte Windows 10 update, once these 

switches are in place, Windows deletes the staged files for us.

 

And also note that this utility will also remove the switches

to re-enable Windows Upgrade upgrading to Windows 10.

 

So, I have a bit more work to do, but what's here works nicely, 

I believe, even if it is a bit MASSIVE. It will be much smaller 

shortly, and we will all be able to recommend it to anyone who 

wishes, for whatever reason, to remain with Windows 7 or 8.1.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

 

25746050540_d63d00feb8_c.jpg

 

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Thomas the Tank Engine    420

For some odd reason, after reading about Never10, I think this is a reverse engineered version of GWX with a "new" skin.  But because it's Steve Gibson, it's going to get out there more -- possibly -- than GWX.

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+warwagon    11,946
Just now, Thomas the Tank Engine said:

For some odd reason, after reading about Never10, I think this is a reverse engineered version of GWX with a "new" skin.

Why would he have to reverse engineer GWX?

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Thomas the Tank Engine    420
11 minutes ago, warwagon said:

Why would he have to reverse engineer GWX?

SG is really no longer in the spotlight, what better way to to GRC known again.

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+goretsky    905

Hello,

 

I wonder if Steve Gibson will be re-releasing it again, signed with a SHA-256 cert?

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

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Dot Matrix    7,391

Haha. This coming from a guy who appears to still be using Windows XP, judging by the screenshots. Yeah, he seems like a winner.

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The Evil Overlord    18,434
Just now, Dot Matrix said:

Haha. This coming from a guy who appears to still be using Windows XP, judging by the screenshots. Yeah, he seems like a winner.

Well, if he is indeed using xp, then he doesn't need to worry about win 10 upgrade :p

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The_Decryptor    1,105

It'd have to be a custom theme, I'm not sure how any "security researcher" could still be using Windows XP.

 

Edit: Of course there's also something funny about a "security researcher" making it easier for people to block software updates.

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+warwagon    11,946

as expected .. +Goretsky is the most polite one in the bunch, everyone else is bitching he's still running XP.

 

I really don't care what OS he's using, As long as he makes a useful tool and this tool looks very useful. Just this week I had to help 2 people roll back to Windows 7 .. they didn't like or want Windows 10. Also did an clean install of Windows 7 for customer who did upgrade to windows 10 but downgraded because she "Hated" it.

 

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+warwagon    11,946

Here is a conversation Steve and I Had on his newsgroup.

 

Me

 

Steve, Haters gonna hate.

 

I've personally been self employed running my own computer repair 
business for the last 13 years..

 

What I see time and time again, are people poo pooing things because 
they live in their own little world and have never had to 
interact with or support the average user.

 

To them everything is easy, cut and dry. They say OMG how stupid must 
those people be to have unwillingly installed windows 10.

 

When the windows 10 install box appears, there are NO physical buttons 
in the UI to exit.

 

I understand this makes the uninformed average user think they 
HAVE to do it and that they have no other choice. Obviously, they can 
hit the X in the corner and close it and to us (tech savvy users) it 
seems so simple, but some average users don't understand that.

 

I think most users, some even in this newsgroup, have a very hard time 
putting themselves in the shoes of the average user.

 

I know from your stories on Security Now, about helping people / having 
conversations with them at Starbucks and also your conversations / tech 
support with Jenny .. that you get and understand the average user.

 

Anyone who understands them would know simply by looking at the GWX 
control panel how daunting it would be for them

 

And in contrast how simple yours would be for them to understand

A lot of people just don't understand them.

 

Steve

 

[for the unabridged version, see Warwagon's post above]

Right.

 

I could NEVER give Judy or Jenny the GWX Control Panel. 
<<shudder>>

 

In using it initially, myself, I found that its user-interface 
was so poorly designed that it was very unclear what was going 
on. And it kept promoting its own presence in the system. That 
would be fine for something that needed to remain resident. But 
there is ZERO indication that Microsoft will EVER ignore those 
registry key values. I cannot imagine that if someone has set 
"DisableOSUpgrade" and "DisableGWX" in the registry that they 
would ever go any farther.

 

And when I saw that the setting of those values ALSO caused GWX 
to REMOVE the 3GB of upgrade files it had already downloaded, it 
was apparent that the GWX Control Panel was serious overkill.

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Dot Matrix    7,391

What exactly are you trying to prove? At one point or another, these users will have to upgrade.

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+warwagon    11,946
3 minutes ago, Dot Matrix said:

What exactly are you trying to prove? At one point or another, these users will have to upgrade.

That's very true. But that's only once they no longer get security updates. Which for windows 7 is in 2020 and Windows 8.1 2023. At some point, yes they will have to upgrade but while they still have a choice, some people would like to stay with Windows 7 or 8. 

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+goretsky    905

Hello,

I purchased and voraciously read Steve Gibson's A Passion for Technology in the late 1980s and even got to see him deliver the keynote at Gnomedex in 2001.  Genuinely intelligent, nice and thoughtful technologist, must like Steve Wozniak (they even had a similar backgrounds and grew up within about 50-60 miles of each other) . 

 

I spent a large amount of time using (well, attempting to draw on) the Koala Pad on Apple ]['s and Commodore 64's when I was first learning how to use computers, too.  It was a couple of decades later that I learned Steve was responsible for inventing them.  Although digitizing tablets and touchpads were available before the Koala Pad was released, I feel it was responsible for introducing the consumer market to the concept.

 

I don't necessarily agree with every single thing he says, but there's no denying he has had a large impact on the field of personal computing.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

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Obi-Wan Kenobi    1,110

1985 called. It want's its' spinrite back.

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Michael Scrip    356

Oh man... can't wait to hear him talk about this on the Security Now podcast next week...

 

I don't listen very often... only when there's some "news" like this.

 

Yes... he HATES Windows 10... this should be fun!     :D 

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Dot Matrix    7,391
3 hours ago, Michael Scrip said:

Yes... he HATES Windows 10... this should be fun!     :D 

Old users hate new technology. Nothing new there.

 

a_560x375.jpg

Edited by Dot Matrix
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+warwagon    11,946
3 hours ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

1985 called. It want's its' spinrite back.

Spinrite is still useful today on non-gpt drives. Until Spinrite 6.1 comes out. If you do a #2 its even effective on SSD's. Which is just a read pass of the drive until it runs into a problem.

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Batfink    32

Fair play to Steve, it's a product I'm not going to use as my Windows PC's are up to 10 already but I did install and update a Windows 7 machine to see just how annoying Microsoft's pushing of 10 is... it is bad.

 

For some people Windows 7 just works, and if it ain't broke... tweak it until it is don't fix it.  I can see the case for the product and credit to Steve for providing it for free.  Now if only Spinrite 6.1 was out.

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+warwagon    11,946

Steve wrote this on his FAQ

 

Quote

A final note: I'm a bit annoyed that “Never10” is as large as it is at 81 kbyte. The digital signature increases the application's size by 4k, but the high-resolution and high-color icons Microsoft now requires takes up 56k! So without all that annoying overhead, the app would be a respectable 21k. <g> And, yes, of course I wrote it in assembly language.

Love it!

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