They are sabotaging the pc to force people to use smartphone?

[MorganX]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 9:27 AM, kifirefox said:

the problem is when they begin to create more good software for smartphone and PC software still obsolete without innovation, no better use of hardware resources, multi core processor, etc.

That's actually a great point.

[MorganX]

12 hours ago, chrisj1968 said:

I don't think the PC will ever go away. I think what MS is doing is trying to propagate an ecosystem across devices (duh right?). However, if MS killed the PC, what would MS have left to do? Windows is their flagship OS. suppose the PC does go away. the tablet won't handle the void for gaming, because they'll have to be made into huge gaming laptops with graphic cards and lots of heat.

 

Windows Phone has been neglected as we already know...

 

 so tablets? really? desktops have lost a lot of popularity due to being forced to stay in a room (in general) but not in all cases. Mobile is the future. perhaps if people have a desktop/laptop for home use, smartphone and tablet for mobile to access from home systems..

 

if MS killed the PC.. MS would die. then everyone would run to Apple or Linux.

They wouldn't die but they would hurt, and get very lean. That's why the very very hard push to the shoddy cloud. It's great, but it ain't ready to replace the desktop/on premises.

[PGHammer]

5 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Zeolot? Hardly.  I'm a professional Win32 app developer and have been since the days of Windows 3.11.  I see no indication of MS attempting to destroy the desktop in my professional capacity, merely attempts to cash in on the growing mobile market by adding to and extending Windows to handle the mobile application paradigm.

 

Win32 is going nowhere.

 

Exactly.  He has zero evidence, just marsh gas.

 

Contrariwise, I offer zero evidence because I have no need to. I'm not the one making a claim here.

 

If Win32 is going anywhere, it's north - to Win64.  Look at merely the number of Win64 games to release in the past twelve months.  (Among them are two additions to my own gaming rota - Ashes of the Singularity and ANNO 2205.  Neither supports Win32 - as in *at all*.  Both are available via Steam - with the former also available via GOG - has any other Win64 game been available on GOG - let alone at launch?)

UWP is not mobile-only - far from it.  Most UWP titles are, in fact, neutral - as is Windows 10 largely itself.  If anything, most UWP software won't even WORK on a phone unless it's Atom-driven - instead, UWP is targeting the *rest* of the Windows 10 hardware base - notebooks, subnotes, Ultrabooks, and their traditional notebook, laptop and (egads) desktop relatives.  In short, merely on my desktop and notebooks, I have MORE software choice than ever - not less.

 

My applications and games run the gamut - from UWP to (as I pointed out above) Win64.  I'm not lacking in choice - any which way.  The application format - or game format - matters not a whit to me.  What matters as far as non-gaming software goes is "does it do what I need for it to do".  That's been the case for me going back to mainframes.  On the gaming side, I'm the LEAST caged I've ever been - and that is especially true on my supremely-traditional non-touch-supporting desktop.  Would I have predicted that in the case of a Windows NT-based operating system?  Not only no, but HECK no - and I've been following NT since NT 3.1 - the original NT.  If I had made such a prediction, I would have - rightfully so - been laughed off the planet.  Yet my application and game rota speaks for itself - and it's all over the map.  What lack is there?

 

The ONLY reason to stay in a cage is by choice.

[PGHammer]

1 hour ago, MorganX said:

That's actually a great point.

Except for one HARDWARE trend - both smartphones and tablets have followed the PC into multicore; the biggest examples are, in fact, ARM and Atom.

 

The current version of ARM is a dual-quad design; both CPU and GPU are, in fact, quad-core.  However, what is the first version of merely Android to take proper advantage of quad-core of even ARM's CPU side?  (What is telling is that not even N takes advantage of the quad-core ARM GPUs.)

 

PCs have been multicore (and before that multiway) since merely NT - and it took applications *how long* to begin to leverage merely the latter outside of niches?  Developers HAVE lagged on supporting multicore - even though it's now ubiquitous (just in terms of Windows new PC hardware, quad-core is nearly ubiquitous).  I'm expecting the quadcore to be, in fact, completely ubiquitous (all the way to budget hardware) by the end of merely this decade.  The lag there will actually be budget notebooks - not tablets.  (Tablets may actually be quad-core before notebooks at the budget end, propelled by the N3700 and progeny - which already is.)

[FloatingFatMan]

7 hours ago, PGHammer said:

If Win32 is going anywhere, it's north - to Win64.  Look at merely the number of Win64 games to release in the past twelve months.  (Among them are two additions to my own gaming rota - Ashes of the Singularity and ANNO 2205.  Neither supports Win32 - as in *at all*.  Both are available via Steam - with the former also available via GOG - has any other Win64 game been available on GOG - let alone at launch?)

As a programmer, Win32 is a catch all term, used to refer to the traditional Windows API's rather than meaning specifically 32 bit. Of course, applications are becoming 64 bit. That's to be expected.

 

 

7 hours ago, PGHammer said:

UWP is not mobile-only - far from it.  Most UWP titles are, in fact, neutral - as is Windows 10 largely itself.  If anything, most UWP software won't even WORK on a phone unless it's Atom-driven - instead, UWP is targeting the *rest* of the Windows 10 hardware base - notebooks, subnotes, Ultrabooks, and their traditional notebook, laptop and (egads) desktop relatives.  In short, merely on my desktop and notebooks, I have MORE software choice than ever - not less.

Funny thing about all those devices you mention, they're ALL mobile devices.

 

 

[Ravensky]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 11:54 AM, kifirefox said:

when you see more people use smartphone and throwing away their pcs, then do not say you were not warned.

LOL This makes me laugh so much... You CAN NOT be productive on a so called "smart" device ... it is just not possible.

[Circaflex]

21 hours ago, chrisj1968 said:

I've read an article that basically stated that with all the telemtery, MS somehow, i forget, makes money off the data it collects from all users somehow. something like revenue generation. I wish I remember where that article was.

Either cite your source or quit with the Windows 10 FUD please, it's starting to look like an attempt at trolling. 

[DConnell Member]

On 4/5/2016 at 1:59 AM, Ravensky said:

LOL This makes me laugh so much... You CAN NOT be productive on a so called "smart" device ... it is just not possible.

My cousin would dispute that - she uses her iPhone for recording story ideas, research, that sort of thing. It may still be a companion device to a PC a lot of the time, since she can't really write and revise drafts on it but for some productivity tasks it excels. Heck, it's an indispensible tool for proofreading - just have Siri read your manuscript out loud as you follow along on the computer - some mistakes aren't readily noticed unless you hear them.

 

The smartphone will never replace the computer as a business/productivity tool, but it works very well for some tasks, both on its own and in conjunction with a PC. It's a tool, and I see no reason to dismiss it.

[Dot Matrix]

On 4/5/2016 at 1:59 AM, Ravensky said:

LOL This makes me laugh so much... You CAN NOT be productive on a so called "smart" device ... it is just not possible.

Why not? 

[+devHead Subscriber²]

On 4/1/2016 at 10:09 AM, kifirefox said:

They are sabotaging the pc to force people to use smartphone?

It seems that people are failing to use PC to get on the internet via smartphone.
navigators, operational systems of the PCs hardware, it's getting worse.
It seems that they are trying to force people to migrate to only use the phone now. and want people to stop using PC.

it's just a question, I do not know what's going well.

I remember a T-Mobile commercial several years ago that showed some elf-like women dumping a PC down a chute into the trash, since they were promoting the fact that everything you do on a PC could now be done on your phone with a data plan.  I thought at the time, how narrow-minded and foolish; you can't create documents and actually do something productive with a phone or a tablet.  But people don't do anything productive anymore.  They're devices for their Facebook, Instagram, Twitter life.

[EliasV]

Since tablets and smartphones can't be used for advanced software like photo and video editing and gaming,pc is absolutely necessary and irreplaceable.

But this doesn't mean that major companies who make big money from mobile devices,will stop promoting them as gadgets,must own.

Another reason is that more and more people nowadays spend most of their time outside their home and so a mobile device  which can go online is something totally useful for everyone.

So I think they are not sabotaging the pc but they try to highlight the usefulness of the smartphone in everyday life to attract more customers.Thats life

[Jim K Global Moderator]

1 hour ago, Dot Matrix said:

Why not? 

I'm sure you can for some line of work ... but certainly not all/the majority.  I'd love to see your work with a complex Excel worksheet or write long/formatted documents on a phone...among many other things which just aren't possible on the limited screen space a smartphone provides.  Sure, they are fine for checking email (if your work email is linked up) or receiving text messages from the boss reminding you the TPS report is due Saturday. 

 

[Dot Matrix]

1 minute ago, jjkusaf said:

I'm sure you can for some line of work ... but certainly not all/the majority.  I'd love to see your work with a complex Excel worksheet or write long/formatted documents on a phone...among many other things which just aren't possible on the limited screen space a smartphone provides.  Sure, they are fine for checking email (if your work email is linked up) or receiving text messages from the boss reminding you the TPS report is due Saturday. 

 

Continuum disagrees.

[DConnell Member]

2 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

I'm sure you can for some line of work ... but certainly not all/the majority.  I'd love to see your work with a complex Excel worksheet or write long/formatted documents on a phone...among many other things which just aren't possible on the limited screen space a smartphone provides.  Sure, they are fine for checking email (if your work email is linked up) or receiving text messages from the boss reminding you the TPS report is due Saturday. 

 

Precisely my point - the issue is whether you can be productive on a smartphone, which my cousin proves quite readily. Sure you can't do everything on a phone you can on a PC, but why dismiss a tool as unproductive based on that? Seems rather short-sighted to me.

If you can be more productive with a smartphone and PC than with just the PC, then I'd assert that yes, you can be productive on a phone. Whether that's using the phone as a supplement to the PC or for quick edits/touching base with the office/recording ideas is irrelevant.

[+Warwagon MVC]

9 minutes ago, Dot Matrix said:

Continuum disagrees.

Correct. But Continuum is a screen, keyboard and mouse. It's a desktop / laptop setup from a phone. So while you are correct, I think people are referring to working on a 5.5 / 6 o smaller screen. or on a tablet screen.

[Ravensky]

1 hour ago, DConnell said:

My cousin would dispute that - she uses her iPhone for recording story ideas, research, that sort of thing. It may still be a companion device to a PC a lot of the time, since she can't really write and revise drafts on it but for some productivity tasks it excels. Heck, it's an indispensible tool for proofreading - just have Siri read your manuscript out loud as you follow along on the computer - some mistakes aren't readily noticed unless you hear them.

 

The smartphone will never replace the computer as a business/productivity tool, but it works very well for some tasks, both on its own and in conjunction with a PC. It's a tool, and I see no reason to dismiss it.

Yes I agree it is a great tool but not a replacement for a PC...

[Jim K Global Moderator]

51 minutes ago, Dot Matrix said:

Continuum disagrees.

LMAO.  OK

 

How is that Excel on Continuum...or even Word. 

 

46 minutes ago, DConnell said:

Precisely my point - the issue is whether you can be productive on a smartphone, which my cousin proves quite readily. Sure you can't do everything on a phone you can on a PC, but why dismiss a tool as unproductive based on that? Seems rather short-sighted to me.

If you can be more productive with a smartphone and PC than with just the PC, then I'd assert that yes, you can be productive on a phone. Whether that's using the phone as a supplement to the PC or for quick edits/touching base with the office/recording ideas is irrelevant.

Phones are a nice supplement/companion ... but in by no means have I used one to be productive.  I had a big excel spreadsheet when I was acting First Sergeant which had phone numbers, addresses, etc., for all the dorm residents and other emergency contacts ... was very handy when issue arose.  However, there was no way in hell I would sit make changes to the spreadsheet on the phone (aside from minor corrections).  I would do that on the desktop and copy the spreadsheet to the phone.  Just one example...out of many. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by jjkusaf
clarification ... supplement/companion

[+Warwagon MVC]

6 minutes ago, Ravensky said:

Yes I agree it is a great tool but not a replacement for a PC...

I've said this many, too many to count, but everytime I try to be productive on a phone or tablet I wanted to throw it across the room. There is a reason I have a 3 monitor setup from a Brix PC next to my couch, But remote assistance is a large part of my business so need the extra screens. Though i'd still have them even if I didn't do that. Not a moment goes by that (except this moment) were all  3 screens don't have something on them. I cleared 2 of the 3 screens for this screenshot to hide personal info.

 

 

4 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

LMAO.  OK

 

How is that Excel on Continuum...or even Word. 

 

Phones are a nice supplement ... but in by no means have I used one to be productive.  I had a big excel spreadsheet when I was acting First Sergeant which had phone numbers, addresses, etc., for all the dorm residents and other emergency contacts ... was very handy when issue arose.  However, there was no way in hell I would sit make changes to the spreadsheet on the phone (aside from minor corrections).  I would do that on the desktop and copy the spreadsheet to the phone.  Just one example...out of many. 

to be fair, I think it probably works pretty good. But it requires a windows phone which nobody will buy.

[DConnell Member]

15 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

LMAO.  OK

 

How is that Excel on Continuum...or even Word. 

 

Phones are a nice supplement ... but in by no means have I used one to be productive.  I had a big excel spreadsheet when I was acting First Sergeant which had phone numbers, addresses, etc., for all the dorm residents and other emergency contacts ... was very handy when issue arose.  However, there was no way in hell I would sit make changes to the spreadsheet on the phone (aside from minor corrections).  I would do that on the desktop and copy the spreadsheet to the phone.  Just one example...out of many. 

It's a matter of finding useful ways of using the phone, rather than trying to shoehorn PC tasks onto it. Finding ways to use that particular device to increase your productivity, not trying to make it fit a particular narrow definition of productivity.

 

My cousin frequently finds answers to questions when we're writing faster by asking her phone than I can opening a new tab and doing the search on the keyboard. How is that not productive?

 

Or taking reference photos before disassembling something? Again, productive in a non-PC-traditional way. Very useful for recording PC settings before a wipe and reinstall.

 

Anyone who dismisses a phone as "unproductive" hasn't really tried to use it IMO. Mine is an essential part of my workflow, both as a PC tech and a writer.

 

 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

22 minutes ago, warwagon said:

I've said this many, too many to count, but everytime I try to be productive on a phone or tablet I wanted to throw it across the room. There is a reason I have a 3 monitor setup from a Brix PC next to my couch  But remote assistance is a large part of my business so need the extra screens. Though i'd still have them even if I didn't do that.

 

 

to be fair, I think it probably works pretty good. But it requires a windows phone which nobody will buy.

Yea. But you'll all be limited to UWP apps, which at this time aren't abundant.  Haven't tried the word or excel apps in awhile..but iirc...they were missing a lot of features.

 

Also...as you pointed out...who has a WMP?

[PGHammer]

On 4/5/2016 at 1:47 AM, FloatingFatMan said:

As a programmer, Win32 is a catch all term, used to refer to the traditional Windows API's rather than meaning specifically 32 bit. Of course, applications are becoming 64 bit. That's to be expected.

 

 

Funny thing about all those devices you mention, they're ALL mobile devices.

 

 

I also mentioned desktops - and not just desktop AIOs; by and large, neither of those move.

 

If anything, Android has a bigger pro-smartphone bias than Windows (even Windows 10) does - out of all the Android applications, how many are either unsupported by developers or just plain refuse to install on anything other than a phone or phablet?   (I'm an owner of an Android tablet - and this is something that I get bit by on a daily basis.)

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Indeed they are, this is one reason I went back to 10586 as MS is more concerned about mobile devices than PC's

[Jim K Global Moderator]

24 minutes ago, DConnell said:

It's a matter of finding useful ways of using the phone, rather than trying to shoehorn PC tasks onto it. Finding ways to use that particular device to increase your productivity, not trying to make it fit a particular narrow definition of productivity.

 

My cousin frequently finds answers to questions when we're writing faster by asking her phone than I can opening a new tab and doing the search on the keyboard. How is that not productive?

 

 

Maybe instead of supplement I should have said a companion device.  If you're writing a paper and want to grab some obscure quote (something other than "to be or not to be") from William Shakespeare ... would it be quicker to look for that quote on a small screen vs a nice large screen?  Would it be quicker to copy/paste said quote from a phone or from a PC to the document you're working on?  Another example, replying to this forum ... is it easier to write comments on a phone or the PC?  If someone asks a tech question ... is it easier to help search for the solution to their problem on a phone or a PC?  When folks ask questions ... I'll usually open a new browser on my other screen ... search for a solution while keeping the forum browser/question open so I can ensure I give them the most accurate information.  When in I was in the AF...I had to do a lot of things in Excel and Word ... there is no way I could have done it on a phone even with Continuum.  

 

Anyway, you can not take one example and apply it to all.  You're talking about writing ... and your cousin asking her phone for something.  Yes, I can see if you're writing about WW2 and want to know the date when Germany invaded Poland...simple questions like that can help move things along quicker.

 

Like I said...it depends on what you're doing.  But for the mass majority of "work" ... not really.

[EliasV]

9 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

Indeed they are, this is one reason I went back to 10586 as MS is more concerned about mobile devices than PC's

Of course they do that because to buy a pc is a deeply entrenched viewpoint but for mobile devices aren't so if you want something to go online.

So they promote them to make you feel that they are absolutely necessary for everyone (and increase their incomings)
It's all about money,my friend

[+Warwagon MVC]

16 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

Yea. But you'll all be limited to UWP apps

Oh ya, good point.