102 arrested, 27 officers injured in 94 shutdown


Recommended Posts

On 10/07/2016 at 9:46 PM, Depicus said:

I'm more than happy to be corrected but did America not fight the British to win their independence ? Or are you saying the British left without injury or hurt feelings and not a single person was hurt ?

Dude, did you not even read his full post? I suggest you go back and give it a read and enlighten yourself on the subject, it was well worth a read :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MikeChipshop said:

Dude, did you not even read his full post? I suggest you go back and give it a read and enlighten yourself on the subject, it was well worth a read :)

Yes I read his post which was a passionate call for peace and reconciliation which is a very laudable aim, however my point is that violent protests have worked in the past so what makes you think they won't work again ? We'd all love a peaceful world where we all got on and nobody shot anybody else but that's not where we are right now.

 

He's talking about how it should be I'm pointing out how it is. (I'd like it to be the great utopian world described)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Depicus said:

what makes you think they won't work again ?

 

But that tells me you missed the defining argument in his post...

 

Nations have frequently won their independence in battle. But in spite of temporary victories, violence never brings permanent peace

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Gary7 said:

What those statistics don't show, is the reason behind those statistics. I refuse to believe its purely based on skin color. Where the people within the black side of the survey more upset about being stopped and assumed its because they are black, so instantly put up a fight, resulting in police needing to use more force and thus driving up the very statistic that the black community are protesting about. A vicious circle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Depicus said:

Yes I read his post which was a passionate call for peace and reconciliation which is a very laudable aim, however my point is that violent protests have worked in the past so what makes you think they won't work again ? We'd all love a peaceful world where we all got on and nobody shot anybody else but that's not where we are right now.

 

He's talking about how it should be I'm pointing out how it is. (I'd like it to be the great utopian world described)

But as its been said already. There is nothing that can be changed. More white people are shot by police than black in America. So what BLM and their ilk are actually saying is, don't kill black people. Whilst I don't believe anyone should die at the hands of police or anyone else, its a sad fact that it is necessary when other lives are at risk, namely police officers.

 

I've said many times that those killed at the hands of police on both white and black communities are of the victims own doing. If they just listen to and carry out the commands of the officer, then they would get along fine, but on both sides the killed end up that way for acting the fool and having this "the law is wrong, so therefore I'm gonna kick off" attitude.

 

Its similar in the UK, although there are far less killings as the police generally don't have firearms. Criminals seem to think the law is an ass and so act aggressively when being arrested. Then they complain about police brutality when the police need to use force to arrest them. However the point is that if they didn't commit crime, the law would allow them to go about their business!

 

If we where seeing every day people who are good, honest hard working and crime free, being shot simply based on the color of their skin, then I would agree there is a problem. But in this case the problem of skin color is only in the eyes of the black community who believe in a problem that doesn't exist as more white people are shot and killed than black anyway!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What she's conveniently leaving out is how black people generally commit more crimes and murders than any other demographic and that fighting the big bad police wouldn't need to be such an issue if you fixed your own communities first. 2000 black on black murders in Chicago this year alone and counting.

 

It's also ironic that Beyonce who is probably one of the wealthiest women in the world and thinks she actually represents the typical black person.

 

 

Edited by trag3dy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

What she's conveniently leaving out is how black people generally commit more crimes and murders than any other demographic and that fighting the big bad police wouldn't need to be such an issue if you fixed your own communities first. 2000 black on black murders in Chicago this year alone and counting.

Let's start by dismissing this notion of 'black on black' murders. White on white murders account for 82% of the total; black on black murders account for 90% - the difference is easily explained by poverty and lack of access to education rather than any inherent genetic trait or cultural problem. The term 'black on black' is a racist construct used by the right to perpetuate negative stereotypes.  You never see people worried that most white people are murdered by other white people. You're part of the race problem.

 

32 minutes ago, restroom said:

More white people are shot by police than black in America. So what BLM and their ilk are actually saying is, don't kill black people. Whilst I don't believe anyone should die at the hands of police or anyone else, its a sad fact that it is necessary when other lives are at risk, namely police officers.

BLM is about highlighting the disproportionate killings of black people by police - it isn't concerned exclusively with black deaths, though it has been wrongly portrayed by the right-wing in that manner. When you see the footage of some of these incidents it is without question that many of them are being murdered by police and have done nothing to warrant such aggression. This isn't about police officers protecting themselves, it's about them murdering people with impunity. I would also point out that in the UK the number of people killed by police ranges from 0-3 per year—to put that in perspective there have been 574 people killed by police in the US so far—so I reject the notion that such killings are 'necessary'.

 

Quote

I've said many times that those killed at the hands of police on both white and black communities are of the victims own doing. If they just listen to and carry out the commands of the officer, then they would get along fine, but on both sides the killed end up that way for acting the fool and having this "the law is wrong, so therefore I'm gonna kick off" attitude.

Nonsense. In so many of the incidents we've seen the police don't make any attempt to deescalate the situation; in fact we frequently see them escalating a non-event into conflict, turning routine traffic stops into bloodbaths. Policing in the US is fundamentally broken. You can't pretend this is just a few bad apples.

 

Quote

Its similar in the UK, although there are far less killings as the police generally don't have firearms. Criminals seem to think the law is an ass and so act aggressively when being arrested. Then they complain about police brutality when the police need to use force to arrest them. However the point is that if they didn't commit crime, the law would allow them to go about their business!

How is it at all similar? The police in the UK are unarmed and command respect. They don't go around murdering people in the street. Even when dealing with armed suspects they are usually able to apprehend them in a non-lethal manner, whereas most of the time there isn't even an attempt to do that in the US. In the UK if someone is threatening people with a firearm or knife they aren't immediately murdered by police.

 

Quote

If we where seeing every day people who are good, honest hard working and crime free, being shot simply based on the color of their skin, then I would agree there is a problem. But in this case the problem of skin color is only in the eyes of the black community who believe in a problem that doesn't exist as more white people are shot and killed than black anyway!

It doesn't matter whether they have committed a crime or not. Committing a crime doesn't mean they have no rights and can be gunned down in the street without second thought. Race isn't a problem being created by the black community - it's demonstrably borne out though statistics and video evidence. To say that racism isn't an issue, that it has been made up by the black community is denial of the highest order. How can any attempt be made to solve the problem when people like yourself refuse to even believe such a problem exists?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

Let's start by dismissing this notion of 'black on black' murders. White on white murders account for 82% of the total; black on black murders account for 90% - the difference is easily explained by poverty and lack of access to education rather than any inherent genetic trait or cultural problem. The term 'black on black' is a racist construct used by the right to perpetuate negative stereotypes.  You never see people worried that most white people are murdered by other white people. You're part of the race problem.

However, that 82% of murders being white on white, but how many murders are there of white people in comparison of black? As in, take 100 black and 100 white people. Lets say 50% of each are murdered. Do you find that 40% of the white murders are white on white and 10% other on white, whilst 30% of black are black on black related? What are the statistics that make up those statistics?

 

13 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

BLM is about highlighting the disproportionate killings of black people by police - it isn't concerned exclusively with black deaths, though it has been wrongly portrayed by the right-wing in that manner. When you see the footage of some of these incidents it is without question that many of them are being murdered by police and have done nothing to warrant such aggression. This isn't about police officers protecting themselves, it's about them murdering people with impunity. I would also point out that in the UK the number of people killed by police ranges from 0-3 per year—to put that in perspective there have been 574 people killed by police in the US so far—so I reject the notion that such killings are 'necessary'.

How is it disproportionate, when more white people are killed by police, even when you take in to account the overall difference of white population to black?

 

13 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

 

Nonsense. In so many of the incidents we've seen the police don't make any attempt to deescalate the situation; in fact we frequently see them escalating a non-event into conflict, turning routine traffic stops into bloodbaths. Policing in the US is fundamentally broken. You can't pretend this is just a few bad apples.

Broken in your opinion? I would argue that communities are broken and causing a lot of the problems themselves. If I was a police officer and had a gun held to my head during a routine stop, you would bet I'd shoot first, ask questions later. Or are you saying that's wrong and the police should be brave and negotiate with someone holding a gun to their head? You need to be realistic.

13 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

 

How is it at all similar? The police in the UK are unarmed and command respect. They don't go around murdering people in the street. Even when dealing with armed suspects they are usually able to apprehend them in a non-lethal manner, whereas most of the time there isn't even an attempt to do that in the US. In the UK if someone is threatening people with a firearm or knife they aren't immediately murdered by police.

I think you either misunderstood what I was saying or are trying to twist what I was saying. I wasn't talking so much about killings in that statement. I was talking more about how communities and criminals in general are their own worse enemies and have similar mentalities both here and in the US. Its all "###### the police, lets resist arrest after carrying out our crime". In the US this can end in death and in the UK it can end in a more forceful arrest. However that is more a question of "should police carry guns", which is where the US and UK are in a totally different league in terms of it being illegal to carry a firearm in the UK generally vs the US.

13 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

 

It doesn't matter whether they have committed a crime or not. Committing a crime doesn't mean they have no rights and can be gunned down in the street without second thought. Race isn't a problem being created by the black community - it's demonstrably borne out though statistics and video evidence. To say that racism isn't an issue, that it has been made up by the black community is denial of the highest order. How can any attempt be made to solve the problem when people like yourself refuse to even believe such a problem exists?

Again, I feel you may have misunderstood me or are twisting the situation.

 

Ive seen footage of police going out to someone whose reported to have put a gun to someone's head. The police have gone in to make an arrest and stated which grounds they are making that arrest, only to meet resistance. The criminal has then put their hand in their pocket KNOWING there is suspicion of them having a gun. Add the fact that someone shouts out scared that they have a gun, its going to end badly for that criminal.

 

The fact the criminal was black should be a non topic as this happens to both black and white.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Forgive Depicus and MikeChipShop. These guys are hardcore left wingers. They grew up singing "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, trag3dy said:

What she's conveniently leaving out is how black people generally commit more crimes and murders than any other demographic and that fighting the big bad police wouldn't need to be such an issue if you fixed your own communities first. 2000 black on black murders in Chicago this year alone and counting.

 

It's also ironic that Beyonce who is probably one of the wealthiest women in the world and thinks she actually represents the typical black person.

 

 

She also uses make-up to whiten her skin and dyes her hair blonde.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, freqnasty said:

Forgive Depicus and MikeChipShop. These guys are hardcore left wingers. They grew up singing "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols :D

Never been called left wing before let alone hardcore but thanks. I'd say I was slightly right of centre and well educated but now I know I'm a lefty I'll be googling the socialist workers party so I can join up as soon as possible :) 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MikeChipshop said:

But that tells me you missed the defining argument in his post...

No I understand his argument I just don't think that is what will happen in the real world. History tells us again and again that violence gets results, you may not like it but you cannot deny the facts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, restroom said:

However, that 82% of murders being white on white, but how many murders are there of white people in comparison of black? As in, take 100 black and 100 white people. Lets say 50% of each are murdered. Do you find that 40% of the white murders are white on white and 10% other on white, whilst 30% of black are black on black related? What are the statistics that make up those statistics?

None of that is important. What's relevant here is that 'white on white' crime isn't a concept despite accounting for the vast majority of crimes, yet 'black on black' crime is a frequent talking point of the right. It's a racist construct.

 

1 hour ago, restroom said:

How is it disproportionate, when more white people are killed by police, even when you take in to account the overall difference of white population to black?

More black people are killed by police relative to population, despite more white people being killed overall. Also, the most egregious cases of policy brutality typically involve black suspects. Police brutality needs to be addressed as a whole—it's certainly not a problem exclusively for black people—but it's perfectly valid to highlight the disproportionate impact it has on black people.

 

1 hour ago, restroom said:

Broken in your opinion? I would argue that communities are broken and causing a lot of the problems themselves.

So it's the 'community' that is broken when ten police officers are used to apprehend a black man for an alleged unpaid train ticket whilst still holding his daughter? He clearly doesn't pose a risk to society.

 

 

Or attack a suspect that has already surrendered and put their hands up? Again we see about six officers at the scene for a man alleged to have stolen two slices of pizza. That's not policing, that's a gang of thugs going around beating people up.

 

 

Or how about this gem, where a police officer points a gun at a black suspect execution style?

 

 

This video is a great comparison of UK policing versus US policing:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, restroom said:

I think you either misunderstood what I was saying or are trying to twist what I was saying. I wasn't talking so much about killings in that statement. I was talking more about how communities and criminals in general are their own worse enemies and have similar mentalities both here and in the US. Its all "###### the police, lets resist arrest after carrying out our crime". In the US this can end in death and in the UK it can end in a more forceful arrest. However that is more a question of "should police carry guns", which is where the US and UK are in a totally different league in terms of it being illegal to carry a firearm in the UK generally vs the US.

Again, I feel you may have misunderstood me or are twisting the situation.

So what are communities meant to do, just let the police violence against them continue? The last video I posted above is a great example, where in the UK the same situation ended with a non-lethal takedown and in the US ended up with a firing squad execution. Policing in the US is completely broken.

 

1 hour ago, restroom said:

Ive seen footage of police going out to someone whose reported to have put a gun to someone's head. The police have gone in to make an arrest and stated which grounds they are making that arrest, only to meet resistance. The criminal has then put their hand in their pocket KNOWING there is suspicion of them having a gun. Add the fact that someone shouts out scared that they have a gun, its going to end badly for that criminal.

One way to cut the number of shootings immediately would be to charge any police officer who kills an unarmed suspect with murder. Unless a weapon is seen the police should be required to operate on the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty', rather than 'shoot first and ask questions later'. I don't see how anyone can look at US policing and consider it even adequate, let alone good. I would argue that policing in the US is pathetic, utterly unfit for purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

None of that is important. What's relevant here is that 'white on white' crime isn't a concept despite accounting for the vast majority of crimes, yet 'black on black' crime is a frequent talking point of the right. It's a racist construct.

 

More black people are killed by police relative to population, despite more white people being killed overall. Also, the most egregious cases of policy brutality typically involve black suspects. Police brutality needs to be addressed as a whole—it's certainly not a problem exclusively for black people—but it's perfectly valid to highlight the disproportionate impact it has on black people.

 

So it's the 'community' that is broken when ten police officers are used to apprehend a black man for an alleged unpaid train ticket whilst still holding his daughter? He clearly doesn't pose a risk to society.

 

 

Or attack a suspect that has already surrendered and put their hands up? Again we see about six officers at the scene for a man alleged to have stolen two slices of pizza. That's not policing, that's a gang of thugs going around beating people up.

 

 

Or how about this gem, where a police officer points a gun at a black suspect execution style?

 

 

This video is a great comparison of UK policing versus US policing:

 

 

 

So what are communities meant to do, just let the police violence against them continue? The last video I posted above is a great example, where in the UK the same situation ended with a non-lethal takedown and in the US ended up with a firing squad execution. Policing in the US is completely broken.

 

One way to cut the number of shootings immediately would be to charge any police officer who kills an unarmed suspect with murder. Unless a weapon is seen the police should be required to operate on the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty', rather than 'shoot first and ask questions later'. I don't see how anyone can look at US policing and consider it even adequate, let alone good. I would argue that policing in the US is pathetic, utterly unfit for purpose.

Firstly - I don't know if you have a language barrier with me, but you either seem to be misinterpreting what I'm saying or just outright twisting it.

Secondly - I saw statistics in another thread that showed more whites are killed by police AND it was relative to the population. I.E. 800 out of 1000 white people killed, vs 802 out of 10,000 black people for example. So more white people are apparently killed in the US than black and it is relative to population and NOT saying 50 out of 100 white and 55 out of 100 black.

 

Lastly - I'm sure there are also plenty of videos online showing police brutality toward white and other cultures. Finding videos of police being aggressors toward black people and purposely overlooking videos featuring white counterparts kind shows exactly the mentality those who back BLM and such groups have.

 

On that note, I'm kind of done arguing about this as its obvious you just don't get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, freqnasty said:

Forgive Depicus and MikeChipShop. These guys are hardcore left wingers. They grew up singing "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols :D

... Do you know what left wing means?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, MikeChipshop said:

 

... Do you know what left wing means?

I suspect he doesn't as he doesn't appear to be using it in the correct context at all. He's also accusing you both of being left wing, even though you are arguing conflicting views haha!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Gary7 said:

Then why pray tell is it the number one new source in the country? They do not make up the news like NBC and CBS and they are not as biased as Chris Mathews on MSNBC. So why are they number one in the ratings?

People are stupid for watching any cable TV "news". It's never "news" and it's always slanted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, hagjohn said:

People are stupid for watching any cable TV "news". It's never "news" and it's always slanted.

Shepard Smith's news at 3 PM is not slanted. Brian Anderson is back demoted to MSNBC. You just have to get your news from various sources and make up your own mind what is real.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

Policing in the US is completely broken.

 

We've allowed the "politics of division" to take over virtually everything segment of our society and it is ruining our great country.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Raze said:

Number law enforcement personnel killed - http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

 

Number of those killed by law enforcement personnel, numbers are approximate as there is no accurate national database at this time -

http://www.killedbypolice.net/

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/07/05/3794553/police-killings-2016/

here is the Chicago stats, the Homicides

 

Most is of it is Black on Black murders, yet they cry Black Lives Matter, THEN STOP SHOOTING EACH OTHER!!

 

2016_murder_matrix.png

 

http://heyjackass.com/

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, trag3dy said:

What she's conveniently leaving out is how black people generally commit more crimes and murders than any other demographic and that fighting the big bad police wouldn't need to be such an issue if you fixed your own communities first. 2000 black on black murders in Chicago this year alone and counting.

 

It's also ironic that Beyonce who is probably one of the wealthiest women in the world and thinks she actually represents the typical black person.

 

 

She is the Female version of Michael Jackson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

Shepard Smith's news at 3 PM is not slanted. Brian Anderson is back demoted to MSNBC. You just have to get your news from various sources and make up your own mind what is real.

Totally agree. Watch or read the same article from left leaning or right leaning sources and then make up your own mind on what to believe, usually somewhere in the middle.

3 minutes ago, hagjohn said:

We've allowed the "politics of division" to take over virtually everything segment of our society and it is ruining our great country.

Absolutely. Its kind of the same over the western world. Its what I attribute the divide on the whole brexit thing to. It was the UK voters way of saying "enough is enough, you WILL listen to us!"

 

Hopefully the next few years will see great reforms and changes in the western world, for the better. However in these types of times, history has shown that its easy to become misled and allow a more sinister element enter the world of politics such as the far\hard right, who blame it all on the "foreigners". This is what I think we are beginning to see with the rise of groups such as BLM but also with people like Trump. Although I understand some of what he says, he appears, to me at least, to take it to the extreme when calling for walls to be built etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

She is the Female version of Michael Jackson.

How do you figure? Michael Jackson was actually talented and had a skin disease which is why he had lighter skin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Gary7 said:

and? If they would do less crimes and cooperate that wouldn't be a problem.

 

here is Chicago

race-2016.png

http://heyjackass.com/2016-race-of-victim-assailant/

 

and with the general "no snitch" rule in the "not so fun" neighborhoods and drive by shooting, who do you think makes up the majority 78% of no arrest.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.