All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

[FloatingFatMan]

I think there will always be some "out there" scenarios the AI isn't designed to handle, so I guess in those cases all it can do is ping the "driver" to make a decision.  A bigger question would be how does it handle adverse weather, such as snow and ice?

 

[troysavary]

1 hour ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Both the kids and the deer would be seen and, if they are moving objects, should be identified as hazards.   Not sure what it'd do if the kids or deer were completely stationary though.. Kids aren't likely to be, but deer are...

 

Of course, the car also wouldn't be speeding AND can react far faster to a new hazard than you possibly could, so the chances of an accident are still quite small.

Will it know that kids are far more likely to run into the way than adults, so therefor respond differently to detecting kids along the side of the road? I doubt it. Drivers tend to slow down significantly when they see kids playing, but maintain the normal speed when it is adults standing by the curb. Will the self driving car be able to identify a car that seems to be driving erratically and keep a distance from it? Will it notice someone approaching a stop sign at a high speed and guess that driver might not be stopping, therefore slowing down to not be at the intersection at the same time, even if it has the right of way? Many accidents are avoided by humans being able to recognise potential hazards and take precautionary steps before things like reaction time even enter the equation.

 

Throw this self driving car on a twisty country road with no painted lines, at night, during a rainstorm, and see how it does. Will it be able to detect black ice before it hits it? How will it cope during a blizzard? There is a huge difference between cruising the freeway during ideal conditions, and dealing with the gamut of conditions that drivers have to handle.

[troysavary]

26 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

I think there will always be some "out there" scenarios the AI isn't designed to handle, so I guess in those cases all it can do is ping the "driver" to make a decision.  A bigger question would be how does it handle adverse weather, such as snow and ice?

 

The AI isn't likely to even recognise it needs help. Assuming it does, by time it manages to alert the driver, and the driver stops whatever he was doing while the car drives him, and actually checks out the situation, it will be too late.

[FloatingFatMan]

17 minutes ago, troysavary said:

The AI isn't likely to even recognise it needs help. Assuming it does, by time it manages to alert the driver, and the driver stops whatever he was doing while the car drives him, and actually checks out the situation, it will be too late.

Y'know, the people writing this software will have already thought of all these questions and worked out what to do, right? There's no way they'd just put the vehicle in charge without it being able to handle problems.

 

I suggest you read the following link for some insight as to how these things actually work...

 

http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=774

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by FloatingFatMan

[troysavary]

2 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Y'know, the people writing this software will have already thought of all these questions and worked out what to do, right? There's no way they'd just put the vehicle in charge without it being able to handle problems.

 

I suggest you read the following link for some insight as to how these things actually work...

 

http://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=774

 

Your linked page supports my view that self driving cars are not ready and will not be for some time more than it supports your view. Did you actually read it before you suggested that I read it?

[DocM]

I've been in a Model X while it was on Autopilot. It's eerie, even spooky, but that thing tracks like it's on a rail, and over 100 miles it didn't miss a beat. With several times the sensors, the radar point cloud and enhanced AI these new Self Drive Tesla's should be positively weird.

 

Slowed down version of the new Tesla system driving.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by DocM

[Unobscured Vision]

I want one.  Oh yes ... I will have the precious ... and a Solar Roof to match it. It shall power my Tesla. I will watch SpaceX launches, powered by a Powerwall that's charged up by the Solar Roof with a pair of Teslas in my Garage while I plan & train for the Mission to Mars on ITS.  

 

That's my new dream.

[IsItPluggedIn]

12 hours ago, troysavary said:

Your linked page supports my view that self driving cars are not ready and will not be for some time more than it supports your view. Did you actually read it before you suggested that I read it?

This all comes down to Pros vs Cons. Speaking about Australia here, Currently the 3 major killers on our roads are, Drinking, Speeding and Tiredness/Concentration. Which all three are effectively eliminated by self driving cars.

 

Humans are more capable of reason, which is why your scenarios favor the human driver instead of the self driving cars. However the software and hardware will only get better and better.

 

The reduction in the main forms of vehicular incidents vs an increase in other areas may mitigate the positive effects. I like to believe that the reductions will far out weight the increase, however this is up to debate as there is not enough data points to draw any conclusions yet.

 

I would prefer that we push forward with technology that may help many millions of people than hold it back because there is a possibility of issues.

 

The main benefit I see in self driving vehicles is in servicing the people who cant drive. IE the elderly/ sick/ disabled.

This will also reduce the need for some services like ambulance and patient transport and free them up for the people who actually need them.

 

I believe secondary benefits of self driving vehicles is so large that even if they dont reduce road fatalities they will be a boon for people within the community. 

 

This is all my opinion no facts or figures back up any of the above(except the main killers).

[DocM]

Check Neobahn. 

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

15 hours ago, troysavary said:

Your linked page supports my view that self driving cars are not ready and will not be for some time more than it supports your view. Did you actually read it before you suggested that I read it?

Yes I did, and I think you missed the reason why I posted it. If I wanted to I could have posted a completely biased article, praising all the pro's of self-driving and none of the cons. Instead I posted an even article that shows the good and the bad, the way the system works, the advantages and the pitfalls.

 

Are they 100% ready? No.  But then, neither are a lot of cars currently on the road.  Is it time to make a start with them, so that the final kinks can be worked out? Absolutely.  The sooner the better, IMO.

 

The road is long, but the journey is underway.

 

[DocM]

SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) has defined 6 levels of autonomy (0-5) with Level 5 being the top level. Tesla's new system is delivered with Level 5 hardware, and software updates will phase in full Level 5 functionality. They say by the end of 2017.

 

SAE automated vehicle classifications:

 

Level 0: Automated system has no vehicle control, but may issue warnings.

 

Level 1: Driver must be ready to take control at any time. Automated system may include features such as Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Parking Assistance with automated steering, and Lane Keeping Assistance (LKA) Type II in any combination.

 

Level 2: The driver is obliged to detect objects and events and respond if the automated system fails to respond properly. The automated system executes accelerating, braking, and steering. The automated system can deactivate immediately upon takeover by the driver.

 

Level 3: Within known, limited environments (such as freeways), the driver can safely turn their attention away from driving tasks.

 

Level 4: The automated system can control the vehicle in all but a few environments such as severe weather. The driver must enable the automated system only when it is safe to do so. When enabled, driver attention is not required.

 

Level 5: Other than setting the destination and starting the system, no human intervention is required. The automatic system can drive to any location where it is legal to drive.

[SALSN]

Completely autonomous cars are already on the road, like the Google cars, so I don't think there can be any question that the technology is capable of being deployed, I think it is more a question of launching it in the right way. Even if autonomous cars are 10 times safer than human drivers, if there is some high profile crash shortly after launch, it will kill the public's trust, and set the technology adoption willingness (if that is a real term) back years. so 10 times normal safety might just not be enough.

[FloatingFatMan]

9 hours ago, DocM said:

Level 4: The automated system can control the vehicle in all but a few environments such as severe weather. The driver must enable the automated system only when it is safe to do so. When enabled, driver attention is not required.

 

Level 5: Other than setting the destination and starting the system, no human intervention is required. The automatic system can drive to any location where it is legal to drive.

I'm kind of unsure about level 4 & 5 autonomy, mainly because of my own lack of knowledge. In the UK, we have a lot of narrow & twisty country roads with no road markings or lighting of any kind, and often very little room for cars to pass (they have "passing places" spaced throughout). Has there been much testing on roads like this?  Also, I've not seen any performance write-ups on how they handle icy or snowy conditions...

[DocM]

D series Tesla's have 4 wheel drive, and Tesla's have active suspension controls standard. The battery is also in the floor, giving it a road hugging very low center of gravity. In short, even 2WD Teslas do well here in Michigan where we're often up to our asses in snow and ice. 

 

The new self drive system uses a radar point cloud to see ahead even through fog and weather. This point cloud is like a live action 3D mesh model of what it sees in its AI network. LIDARs have also used point clouds like the image below, but radars can see more and scans faster (phased array antenna.) Both detect edges. Add this to high precision GPS, other cameras and other radars around its perimeter and....

 

LIDAR

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by DocM

[troysavary]

On ‎2016‎-‎11‎-‎21 at 0:28 PM, DocM said:

I've been in a Model X while it was on Autopilot. It's eerie, even spooky, but that thing tracks like it's on a rail, and over 100 miles it didn't miss a beat. With several times the sensors, the radar point cloud and enhanced AI these new Self Drive Tesla's should be positively weird.

 

Slowed down version of the new Tesla system driving.

 

 

Didn't miss a beat? It nearly ran a stop sign once. At least twice I saw it come to a dead stop in the middle of the road because it was confused by either oncoming traffic in the other lane or by someone walking on the shoulder. Stopping dead suddenly like that is asking to be rear ended. This was driving on mostly empty roads with a few instances of light traffic. If it gets confused that easily in a simple driving condition like that, it definitely isn't ready for heavy traffic.

[troysavary]

On ‎2016‎-‎11‎-‎22 at 2:58 AM, FloatingFatMan said:

Yes I did, and I think you missed the reason why I posted it. If I wanted to I could have posted a completely biased article, praising all the pro's of self-driving and none of the cons. Instead I posted an even article that shows the good and the bad, the way the system works, the advantages and the pitfalls.

 

Are they 100% ready? No.  But then, neither are a lot of cars currently on the road.  Is it time to make a start with them, so that the final kinks can be worked out? Absolutely.  The sooner the better, IMO.

 

The road is long, but the journey is underway.

 

OK, sorry. I thought you were using it as proof they are ready for prime time. My mistake. It seems we are actually on the same page. I can see where they are useful, but still a long way from being ready. Musk's grandiose promises aside, we won't be seeing fully autonomous vehicles in everyday driving by next year. I would want one for the most boring aspect of driving, the long freeway drives when travelling between cities. For every other driving task, I prefer to be in control. I trust my own driving over that of a computer any day. 

[FloatingFatMan]

1 hour ago, troysavary said:

OK, sorry. I thought you were using it as proof they are ready for prime time. My mistake. It seems we are actually on the same page. I can see where they are useful, but still a long way from being ready. Musk's grandiose promises aside, we won't be seeing fully autonomous vehicles in everyday driving by next year. I would want one for the most boring aspect of driving, the long freeway drives when travelling between cities. For every other driving task, I prefer to be in control. I trust my own driving over that of a computer any day. 

Indeed. Myself, I figure we'll start seeing them on the road by the early to mid 2020's, and becoming mainstream in the 2030's.  The technology may well be there before then, but the social changes needed will take a little longer before people are ready to accept them.  

 

Plus, prices need to fall AND more charging points are needed.  The US may have plenty in the cities, but lots of people don't live in cities, and in the EU/UK, they're even rarer!

 

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by FloatingFatMan

[DocM]

2 hours ago, troysavary said:

Didn't miss a beat? It nearly ran a stop sign once. 

I'm sorry, but I didn't see you in the car when Mike and I took that trip to Milan and we didn't video it.

[FloatingFatMan]

44 minutes ago, DocM said:

I'm sorry, but I didn't see you in the car when Mike and I took that trip to Milan and we didn't video it.

He's talking about the posted video.

[+Warwagon MVC]

3 hours ago, troysavary said:

Didn't miss a beat? It nearly ran a stop sign once. At least twice I saw it come to a dead stop in the middle of the road because it was confused by either oncoming traffic in the other lane or by someone walking on the shoulder. Stopping dead suddenly like that is asking to be rear ended. This was driving on mostly empty roads with a few instances of light traffic. If it gets confused that easily in a simple driving condition like that, it definitely isn't ready for heavy traffic.

 

I also think I saw it stop in the middle of the road when it detected the people walking on the side.

[DocM]

21 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

He's talking about the posted video.

In my first sentence I related a personal experience, separate from the video, where "didn't miss a beat" was used. 

[FloatingFatMan]

45 minutes ago, DocM said:

In my first sentence I related a personal experience, separate from the video, where "didn't miss a beat" was used. 

To be honest, I can understand his confusion. To me it also read as if your post was talking about the video you added. You didn't specify that they were unconnected so it was a reasonable assumption to make.

 

[DocM]

 

[DocM]

 

[The Evil Overlord]

Man I'd love to have one, just because it's something new to experience.