U.S. Government to Build 48 Electric Vehicle Highway Corridors

[DocM]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a23713/us-government-electric-vehicle-highway/

 

Quote

 

U.S. Government to Build 48 Electric Vehicle Highway Corridors

 

In a step forward for the electric car road trip, the Obama Administration announced plans to create 48 national electric-vehicle (EV) charging networks on nearly 25,000 miles of highways in 35 U.S. states.

 

The charging stations are required under the 2015 FAST Act. Car manufacturers like Nissan, General Motors, and BMW have agreed to work with public utilities in 28 of those states to fast-track their construction. The network plan is part of the $2.4 billion Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality Improvement (CMAQ) program that's bundled inside the FAST Act.

 

As you can see on the map, there are two kinds of projects. Existing (or "signage-ready") EV stations need new highway signs to alert drivers to their existence, "similar to existing signage that alerts drivers to gas stations, food, and lodging," the Department of Transportation says. But most of the work will be on "signage-pending" stations, as the government calls themchargers that don't exist yet. These stations will be built in states that haven't seen any such EV highway corridors yet, like Minnesota, Missouri, Idaho, Iowa, and Utah.

 

Of course, the Obama Administration isn't the only one building EV stations. Tesla's Supercharger stations dot the American map, with over 700 in both the United States and Canada.

 

 

 

700 locations and close to 3,500 plugs.

 

FAST Act routes

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by DocM

[Emn1ty]

Glad this is happening even if I don't necessarily agree with it from a policy standpoint. The biggest problem with electric cars has always been chicken/egg. Not enough people with the cars means not enough facilities to use them, but a lack of facilities makes the cars undesirable as well. Hopefully this removes the latter problem, cause my main issue with getting an electric car at present is the limited range, however if I could charge my vehicle for 5-10m every hundred or so miles that would make the trip far easier. Just plug in, have some lunch and be ready to go again.

[Unobscured Vision]

Hopefully this leads to better technology and more people using them.  

[Solid Knight]

So we essentially replace gasoline with toxic waste and longer stops at the refueling station?

[farmeunit]

2 minutes ago, Solid Knight said:

So we essentially replace gasoline with toxic waste and longer stops at the refueling station?

They can recycle the batteries.  What other waste?  The majority of driving is in the range of these vehicles or people wouldn't buy them.  Newer models are changing faster.  You could use bathrooms, grab a snack, maybe enjoy life a little.  Or just don't buy one.

[Solid Knight]

Just now, farmeunit said:

They can recycle the batteries.  What other waste?  The majority of driving is in the range of these vehicles or people wouldn't buy them.  Newer models are changing faster.  You could use bathrooms, grab a snack, maybe enjoy life a little.  Or just don't buy one.

I have a feeling they'll end up in landfills regardless of recycling programs.

 

The routes are interstates and a big obstacle is going to be how long you have to hang out in the middle of nowhere (during all kinds of weather) while refueling. There is nothing to enjoy while literally waiting for something to charge.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

lol, so to get from California to Texas, you need to go through Illinois.

 

The gesture is appreciated though, steps like this need to be taken eventually. Had hte internet existed then, we would be having the same discussion about gasoline fed internal combustion requiring freeways and roads to be destructive.

 

Personally I'd prefer mass transit for most scenarios, but that can't get everywhere.

[DocM]

11 hours ago, Solid Knight said:

I have a feeling they'll end up in landfills regardless of recycling programs.[/quote]

Nope - into power stations for power buffering. Car battery recycling for this started with the Chevy Volt and Tesla is both recycling and building purpose-built power station batteries (PaperPack 2.) LA is getting an 80 MW test unit with plans to go system wide - brownout protection. Cheaper than a fuelled aux generator. It can also store excess power from solar or wind stations for use at night.

 

Quote

 

The routes are interstates and a big obstacle is going to be how long you have to hang out in the middle of nowhere (during all kinds of weather) while refueling. There is nothing to enjoy while literally waiting for something to charge.

Battery charging time is proportional to the kW deliverable. Currently this is a max of 120 kW, sometimes less when multiple vehicles are connected, at 480v DC for Tesla, but the trend is to delivering 180 kW or more to speed charging. There's already one charge service in Europe setting up for 180 kW. 

Edited November 6, 2016 by DocM

[Cnónna]

electric cars as they are, are a dead end tech IMO, they cost more to produce, you have to change the batteries every 3 years, actual driving range is rubbish, having to wait to charge them is never the answer.

 

unless they can develop some kind of battery that's the size of a suitcase, that you'd be able to swap out as a filling station, that can hold a much greater charge, and not diminish it's capacity with over time with repeated charging. 

 

hydrogen cars would be a better route to follow, but the car companies probably see electric as much more of a money spinner since, they tie you into a long term contract for payments to replace the batteries every 3 years or so.  so pay for the car then pay another wack for the batteries, yeah no thanks. 

 

 

[Yogurth]

11 hours ago, farmeunit said:

They can recycle the batteries.  What other waste?  The majority of driving is in the range of these vehicles or people wouldn't buy them.  Newer models are changing faster.  You could use bathrooms, grab a snack, maybe enjoy life a little.  Or just don't buy one.

Nuclear and hard fossil waste from all the electricity usage replacing oil.

[PGHammer]

13 minutes ago, Yogurth said:

Nuclear and hard fossil waste from all the electricity usage replacing oil.

Most electricity generated is STILL going to be using oil, natural gas, or coal; even if solar were a REQUIREMENT for ALL new home construction, it is still impractical mainly on a meteorological (weather-related) basis all too often.

[DocM]

Oil generation is in steep decline. So is coal, which releases more radioactivity than several nuclear and accidents in its soot. Natural gas is cleaner.

 

If you want clean air and low carbon you need widely distributed solar and nuclear, and the best nuclear is that which burns thorium.

 

In a molten salt thorium reactor meltdowns aren't a problem, the fuel is molten anyhow, and if something does go wrong the fuel mass is passively drained into several subcritical tanks where it cools and solidifies. There's little if any vapor pressure to blow the containment vessel and it produces far less waste. Better yet, they can burn existing nuclear waste into a much smaller mass, they can be modular and can be made very small for remote areas.

 

Coming to you soon via a joint US-China project.

[Emn1ty]

8 minutes ago, DocM said:

Oil generation is in steep decline. So is coal, which releases more radioactivity than several nuclear and accidents in its soot. Natural gas is cleaner.

 

If you want clean air and low carbon you need widely distributed solar and nuclear, and the best nuclear is that which burns thorium.

 

In a molten salt thorium reactor meltdowns aren't a problem, the fuel is molten anyhow, and if something does go wrong the fuel mass is passively drained into several subcritical tanks where it cools and solidifies. There's little if any vapor pressure to blow the containment vessel and it produces far less waste. Better yet, they can burn existing nuclear waste into a much smaller mass, they can be modular and can be made very small for remote areas.

 

Coming to you soon via a joint US-China project.

And if Fusion keeps progressing as it has been, that may enter the space in the next 20-40 years. Coal and oil is on it's way out, the last barrier is battery lifespan / range for an all electric, non-carbon producing future.

[PGHammer]

24 minutes ago, Emn1ty said:

And if Fusion keeps progressing as it has been, that may enter the space in the next 20-40 years. Coal and oil is on it's way out, the last barrier is battery lifespan / range for an all electric, non-carbon producing future.

Except for one problem - as use decreases, the cost for using it drops.  All it has to do THEN is remain below the cost of all alternatives - that ALONE will keep it around.

[DocM]

Battery life, capacity and cost are all on steep favorable ramps, and we haven't even started using metal-air batteries (Tesla has a patent for a metal-air/Lithium-ion hybrid drive system) or supercapacitors.  

 

Also, people talk about battery weight and cost but don't consider that an ICE, transmission, axel's etc. mass nearly half a ton and new can cost well over $10,000, perhaps $20,000+. Many car batteries are now cheaper. A Tesla S motor is about 32  kg and produces 362 hp, a wonder of engineering, and the battery masses about 544 kg.  A wash.

[Emn1ty]

1 minute ago, PGHammer said:

Except for one problem - as use decreases, the cost for using it drops.  All it has to do THEN is remain below the cost of all alternatives - that ALONE will keep it around.

True, but there will be a point where it's no longer cost effective. Where their money reserves will dry up in their own vain attempt to subsidize. However, I believe the energy industry will invest in the transition and try to buyout new energy in an effort to ride the train, thus putting large investment into that industry to drive it forward. At least that's what hope to be the case.

[PGHammer]

Just now, Emn1ty said:

True, but there will be a point where it's no longer cost effective. Where their money reserves will dry up in their own vain attempt to subsidize. However, I believe the energy industry will invest in the transition and try to buyout new energy in an effort to ride the train, thus putting large investment into that industry to drive it forward. At least that's what hope to be the case.

And when will THAT be?  Nobody knows - therein lies the problem - it's not predictable.  There is also the BRIC problem - will they be able to create thorium-based reactors themselves - or will they have to import them and/or tech required to build them?  (Why do I call it the "BRIC problem"?  Look at all comparisons of merely technologies at use in the BRIC compared to nations below the BRIC (the current dividing line on a technological basis)?  There are NO even current-gen nuclear reactors in use in sub-BRIC nations - are they or are they not the highest polluters currently (other than the PRC itself - which leads even the US in terms of pollutants per unit of population)?

[DocM]

Our utility is moving into solar, wind and wants to expand their nuclear. This while closing out coal and going natural gas as a bridge.

 

I think something like Tesla's shingles are the future; 6 million business buildings plus how many residences covered as a code requirement for replacement or new construction is a lot of generating capacity. Transferred to large storage banks at the substation level and it's coal/oil/gas who?

[DocM]

16 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

And when will THAT be?  Nobody knows - therein lies the problem - it's not predictable.  There is also the BRIC problem - will they be able to create thorium-based reactors themselves - or will they have to import them and/or tech required to build them?  (Why do I call it the "BRIC problem"?  Look at all comparisons of merely technologies at use in the BRIC compared to nations below the BRIC (the current dividing line on a technological basis)?  There are NO even current-gen nuclear reactors in use in sub-BRIC nations - are they or are they not the highest polluters currently (other than the PRC itself - which leads even the US in terms of pollutants per unit of population)?

As I said, the US and China are working on a thorium reactor design which can be mass produced. India is also working on one.  Brazil has 4 reactors in the pipeline, adding to the 2 they have.

 

Next year China opens a pebble bed testbed in Tsinghua followed by a full size reactor in Shandong, and the Gates Foundation is working with them on a travelling wave reactor (TerraPower.) They're also working on a sodium cooled fast breeder.

 

Sadly, China is where most of the interesting work is being done.

[PGHammer]

I am NOT doubting the pace of tech advancement - not in the least; I'm referring simply to old-fashioned human nature - and especially that of the BRIC and nations technologically inferior TO the BRIC.

Solar City (for example) is partnering with REA-member cooperatives to get their (and eventually Tesla-designed) tech into widespread use.  REA member cooperatives are NOT just in the Midwest; two of the most leading-edge of them are in Washington, DC's exurbs - NOVEC and SMECO (Northern Virginia Electric Cooperative and Southern Maryland Electric Cooperative, respectively - as cooperatives, they are owned by their customers).  The two cooperatives are also driving adoption among commercial customers as well - such as MOM's Organic Market in both Maryland and Virginia (their Alexandria, VA and Waldorf, MD locations are NOVEC and SMECO customers, and are using SolarCity-based tech; the Waldorf location is all of ten miles from my house).

[DocM]

All why those naysayers who criticized Tesla-Solar City deal are not thinking well - Tesla is making US and international deals left and right, and with Panasonic are building capacity to meet them.  Both Gigafactories are just phase 1.  They're leading a race where the other contestants have yet to act as if they heard the gun.

[PGHammer]

5 minutes ago, DocM said:

As I said, the US and China are working on a thorium reactor design which can be mass produced. India is also working on one. Next year China opens a pebble bed testbed in Tsinghua followed by a full size reactor in Shandong, and the Gates Foundation is working with them on a travelling wave reactor (TerraPower.) They're also working on a sodium cooled fast breeder.

 

Sadly, China is where most of the interesting work is being done.

The PRC is up against it two different ways - they want to become more independent.  Fortunately for them, as an autocracy, they don't have to listen to the whim of the general public as much as a republic or a democracy does.  Also, they got shamed into taking greater risks largely due to the Beijing Olympics - it reminded them rather forcefully that they have a LONG way to go.  While the United States has the technological base to take such risks, the nation as a whole is so risk-averse as to be CHICKEN (not merely conservative) - what happened with Solyndra did not help in the least.

1 minute ago, DocM said:

All why those the naysayers who criticized Tesla-Solar City deal are not thinking well - Tesla is making US and international deals left and right, and with Panasonic are building capacity to meet them.  Both Gigafactories are just phase 1.

As I said - CHICKEN, DocM - not merely "conservative".

[DocM]

Chicken and NIMBY, and the chicken part comes largely from overblown press reports going back to TMI and the environmental wackos - neither  being conservatives

[PGHammer]

Hence it being rather embarrassing what SolarCity and the cooperatives are doing.  SMECO is one of the OLDEST of the REA cooperatives; it covers the Tri-Counties (Charles, Calvert, and St. Mary's) counties of Maryland, along with parts of Anne Arundel and Prince George's) as the local line provider.  Other providers can build power plants here (PEPCO did - Morgantown and Chalk Point were originally built by PEPCO, while Calvert Cliffs was built by BG&E) - however, SMECO has Right of First Refusal of their generated power.  The REA-era cooperatives are conservative from a legal standpoint - however, they aren't chicken - there is a difference between the two.