PC Doesn't See Established HomeGroup

By Sir Topham Hatt
in Smart Home, Network & Security

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Grand Master

Sir Topham Hatt

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So in my long running quest to get my two computers talking to each other, I've slumped back to HomeGroups.

 

Basically, I want to be able to transfer a bunch of data from one PC to another.  I'm using HomePlugs.  It worked when I didn't have HomePlugs, so I don't know if this is the problem as I moved house in between too.

I right-click on all the hard drives on the storage PC and choose "share", leaving them with the automatic names.

I go to the home PC and try to transfer data, but it says I don't have permission.  I ended up going through a tutorial about getting permission from "Trusted Installer" or something similar and adding myself (as an Admin account) to have full read/write access, as it would be great to be able to rename things on the storage PC using the home PC.

 

After wasting nearly an hour trying to figure it out, I stopped bothering with it.

 

So, back to HomeGroups.

 

I created one on the storage PC but when I try and connect the home PC, it just wants to create another, rather than try to join one.

 

Help?

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Grand Master

+BudMan MVC

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lets start with the basics..

 

So you have machine A what is its IP, you have machine B what is its IP..  You mention homeplugs so machine A and B are wired/wireless connected how exactly?  Do they both have internet access?

 

Can you ping IP A from machine B, and vise versa? Are you running any firewalls other than the built in windows 1?

 

Here is the thing file sharing takes all of 2 seconds to setup.. You sure and the F do not need "homegroups"  But until you have basic connectivity its pointless to work out what your doing wrong for the file sharing and the auth to the shares, etc..

 

So lets get how your connected and validate you don't have 1 machine behind a nat of some wifi router your wanting to use as an AP, etc..

 

On machine A do ipconfig /all and post, on machine B do the same thing!..

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Grand Master

Sir Topham Hatt

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HOME PC: 

Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : MK3
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Ethernet 2:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller #2
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 80-EE-73-32-8C-3C
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::f91a:6db7:22f0:d62%5(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.13(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 06 January 2017 14:20:03
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 07 January 2017 17:33:59
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 109112947
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1D-5B-2C-71-80-EE-73-32-8C-3C
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 8.8.8.8
                                       8.8.4.4
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.{910BD98E-1D01-46B9-8822-CEB814B62857}:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 10:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Teredo Tunneling Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:0:5ef5:79fd:14f6:343f:adf6:b40(Preferred)
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::14f6:343f:adf6:b40%4(Preferred)
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 150994944
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1D-5B-2C-71-80-EE-73-32-8C-3C
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

 

 

 

 

STORAGE PC: 

Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : STORAGE
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Marvell Yukon 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-22-15-15-0E-A9
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::e95d:d39f:c72e:2329%5(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.16(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 06 January 2017 17:33:21
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 07 January 2017 18:27:14
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 33563157
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1F-97-A2-12-00-22-15-15-0E-A9
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100
                                       194.168.8.100
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Ethernet 2:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Marvell Yukon 88E8001/8003/8010 PCI Gigabit Ethernet Controller
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-22-15-15-1A-87
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter isatap.{42581EFF-E7B9-49C2-9589-165CEF4BA5A8}:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:0:5ef5:79fb:1806:103:adf6:b40(Preferred)
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::1806:103:adf6:b40%9(Preferred)
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 201326592
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1F-97-A2-12-00-22-15-15-0E-A9
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

 

Edited by Sir Topham Hatt
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Grand Master

+BudMan MVC

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Why is Storage pointing to here for dns

 

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100 194.168.8.100

 

While your other machine pointing to

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4

 

Not really all that big of deal, assume your 194.168.4 is your ISP?? virginmedia?

 

But if 2 clients getting dhcp from the same dhcp server 192.168.0.1 you would think they would point to the same place for dns..  Also the lease times are different.. You would think if devices on the same network getting leases from the same dhcp server they would have the same lease time.. You have 1 that has some weird 27 hour + minutes.. And then the other one has 25 hours?

 

Those are some weird lease times..

 

  Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : local.lan
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 18-03-73-B1-0D-D3
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.9.100(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 2, 2017 4:24:07 AM
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 9, 2017 4:24:06 AM

 

Notice mine is right at the specific time mark of 7 days..

 

Points to maybe being on 2 different networks even though you have network IP range?  Or another issue of having 2 dhcp servers running?  That would also be bad?

 

So can either of those IPs ping each other?  After you try and ping even if do not get a response do you have the mac access listed?

 

So example.. I ping an IP..  And then look in my arp table and see it listed..

pingarp.png

 

So maybe you have some old wifi router your trying to use as AP but its actually still routing and so your machine on that wifi is behind a NAT and yeah file sharing going to not work in that sort of setup, nor would you see the other homegroup.

 

Draw out your network and how these machines are connected..

 

 

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Grand Master

Sir Topham Hatt

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Sorry for not replying sooner.

I'll get down to the nitty gritty about the other thread further down.

 

Here's my setup:

 

Untitled.png

The router is the only thing I forgot to label.

 

I changed the Family PC DNS to point to Google's servers and haven't got round to changing the other as yet.

 

I haven't changed any settings from when I set it up and installed Windows.  Same with the router - all that comes from the router.  Whether the lease times occur when I have restarted the PCs I don't know.

 

I started a HomeGroup on the Storage PC, then joined it using the Family PC.  I can pull files from Family PC to Storage PC (although it is slow - see other thread), but even though all hard drives are set up the same sharing wise, when I try and push files from the Family PC to the Storage PC, I can only write to 1 out of the 6 hard drives.  It simply says I don't have permission (despite read/write permission being granted to "Everyone" in the sharing tab).  But what puzzles me more is that all hard drives have the same settings (IE, 20 simultaneous users... read/write permissions all the same...).

 

It's annoying as different things need to go to different places.

 

Again, sorry for the late reply - but thank you for your assistance :)

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Grand Master

Mando

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Posted (edited)

let dhcp do all dns from your router while you sort your connectivity, if you want to point your router to google dns then fine, just make em all the same internally pointing to the router.

 

if one is using wireless and the other wired, make sure in wireless settings AP isolated is disabled.

 

I have pretty much the same setup and network access is fine. I manually map to the shares/nas and enter the destinations username credentials in the normal format so machinename\UserACC & pwd.

 

Desktop ----switch-->Homeplug--->Router--->NAS--->homeplug--->switch--->Media center--->wireless devices all able to access each other regardless of connection method to workgroup.

 

 

Edited by Mando
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Grand Master

DaveLegg Developer

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On 14/01/2017 at 4:18 PM, Sir Topham Hatt said:

It simply says I don't have permission (despite read/write permission being granted to "Everyone" in the sharing tab).

Have you checked the NTFS permissions on the drives? Those matter in addition to the permissions on the share itself.

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Grand Master

+BudMan MVC

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And then there is the rub.. homegroup uses ipv6, and then on teh actual file transfer its via IPv4 ;) 

On 1/6/2017 at 0:25 PM, Sir Topham Hatt said:

Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::f91a:6db7:22f0:d62%5(Preferred)

Clearly he has ipv6 enabled, homegroups is just going to be using the link local address.. which he clearly has there.

 

On 1/14/2017 at 10:18 AM, Sir Topham Hatt said:

I started a HomeGroup on the Storage PC, then joined it using the Family PC.

Seems to me he a connection - now his problem is speed and permissions..

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Grand Master

Sir Topham Hatt

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Hi :)

 

If looking at the NTFS permissions, who should I grant permission to?  I'm thinking at least me (on the Family PC) and the local account I use on the storage PC.

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Grand Master

DaveLegg Developer

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1 hour ago, Sir Topham Hatt said:

Hi :)

 

If looking at the NTFS permissions, who should I grant permission to?  I'm thinking at least me (on the Family PC) and the local account I use on the storage PC.

Whichever account you're going to be using when you want to modify the files. You could try setting permissions for everyone, to verify that this is what was causing the problem, and then lock it down further from there until it only allows access to the users you want.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Grand Master

Sir Topham Hatt

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Posted (edited)

Sorry to bump this again.  Been so busy recently.

 

So I've turned both PC's on.  The Family PC see's the Storage PC, but when I click on it, Windows takes an age to connect.  Managed to go through a "diagnose connection problem" which gave me this:

  


Windows can't communicate with the device or resource (STORAGE). The computer or service you are trying to reach might be temporarily unavailable. If the device or resource is nearby and you have access to it, make sure it is turned on and connected to the network.

 

InformationalDiagnostics Information (Teredo) 
Details about Teredo diagnosis: 

Teredo Parameters
---------------------------------------------
Type                    : client
Server Name             : win10.ipv6.microsoft.com.
Client Refresh Interval : 30 seconds
Client Port             : unspecified
State                   : offline
Error                   : failed to open tunnel adapter

 
 
InformationalDiagnostics Information (Network Adapter) 
Details about network adapter diagnosis: 

Network adapter Ethernet 2 driver information:

   Description . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller
   Manufacturer  . . . . . . . . . : Realtek
   Provider  . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek
   Version   . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.1.505.2015
   Inf File Name . . . . . . . . . : C:\WINDOWS\INF\oem5.inf
   Inf File Date . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, January 1, 2000  12:00:00 AM
   Section Name  . . . . . . . . . : RTL8168E.ndi
   Hardware ID . . . . . . . . . . : pci\ven_10ec&dev_8168&rev_06
   Instance Status Flags . . . . . : 0x180200a
   Device Manager Status Code  . . : 0
   IfType  . . . . . . . . . . . . : 6
   Physical Media Type . . . . . . : 14

 

Went to take a look at the Storage PC and found each drive has sharing enabled, limited to 10 simultaneous users.  Permissions for "Everyone" are set to "Allow".

Some drives didn't have an owner, so I made the "Administrator" the owner (there's only one account on that PC).

 

The Storage PC see's the family PC but when I click to view the files it's now saying that the Storage PC doesn't have permission :/  Yet permissions for "Everyone" are set to "Allow", and allowing 50 simultaneous users.

 

Also worth noting, both PCs are set to go straight to the desktop.  There's no passwords to type.

 

Restarted both PCs and now the Family PC can see all the folders on the Storage PC, but only have access to 2 out of the 6.  I've looked at the permissions and owners, all are the same.  There must be something, somewhere that is stopping the Family PC being able to view/write/delete files on those particular hard drives/folders and I just don't get it.

 

Why it's so difficult to allow one PC to transfer files to another is a wonder...

Edited by Sir Topham Hatt
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Grand Master

+BudMan MVC

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18 hours ago, Sir Topham Hatt said:

Why it's so difficult to allow one PC to transfer files to another is a wonder...

Its not - you literally turn them on and share a folder..

 

You install the OS, you share the folders - there you go done..  Are you using MS accounts??  Or local accounts - I take it MS??  That can cause some flakiness in sharing.

 

But this error says you can not even talk to "storage"  So why are you looking at permissions??

"The computer or service you are trying to reach might be temporarily unavailable."

 

Can you ping its IP??  This is like 101 when troubleshooting - can you even talk to that IP your trying to talk to??

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