Federal agents conduct immigration enforcement raids in at least six states

[+Red King Subscriber²]

Quote

 

Federal agents conduct immigration enforcement raids in at least six states
By Lisa Rein, Abigail Hauslohner and Sandhya Somashekhar | February 11

 

U.S. immigration authorities arrested hundreds of undocumented immigrants in at least a half-dozen states this week in a series of raids that marked the first large-scale enforcement of President Trump’s Jan. 25 order to crack down on the estimated 11 million immigrants living here illegally.
Officials said the raids targeted known criminals, but they also netted some immigrants without criminal records, an apparent departure from similar enforcement waves during the Obama administration. Last month, Trump substantially broadened the scope of who the Department of Homeland Security can target to include those with minor offenses or no convictions at all.
Trump has pledged to deport as many as 3 million undocumented immigrants with criminal records.

[...]

Immigration officials acknowledged that as a result of Trump’s executive order, authorities had cast a wider net than they would have last year.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/federal-agents-conduct-sweeping-immigration-enforcement-raids-in-at-least-6-states/2017/02/10/4b9f443a-efc8-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html

[ensiform]

Tbh, enter the country legally or face potential consequences down the road.  Coming into the country (especially by immigration) is a personal choice.  I get "you" started a life here and had kids (looking at the mom of 2 who got deported in the news the other day).  But as an individual, you make a choice to do so and get a felony for it that prevents you from getting the citizenship.  This country is not legally a free-for-all enter at your will.  It is a right to get into the country and to live here if you are not born here.  Sure its bad the woman's kids are now possibly in foster system (they probably could have at least gave her a stay of amnesty to bring her kids with IMO).

[TPreston]

13 hours ago, ensiform said:

Tbh, enter the country legally or face potential consequences down the road.  Coming into the country (especially by immigration) is a personal choice.  I get "you" started a life here and had kids (looking at the mom of 2 who got deported in the news the other day).  But as an individual, you make a choice to do so and get a felony for it that prevents you from getting the citizenship.  This country is not legally a free-for-all enter at your will.  It is a right to get into the country and to live here if you are not born here.  Sure its bad the woman's kids are now possibly in foster system (they probably could have at least gave her a stay of amnesty to bring her kids with IMO).

Blaming the children for the fault of the adults. Tearing family's apart. What an ugly policy that I suspect will be expanded upon in the next few years.

[domboy]

24 minutes ago, TPreston said:

Blaming the children for the fault of the adults. Tearing family's apart. What an ugly policy that I suspect will be expanded upon in the next few years.

"The sins of the fathers will be visited upon the children... "

 

Of course it isn't the children's fault, but it is all too common for kids to suffer for their parents dumb choices. That is life. Look at divorce... who suffers the most? The kids. There are a host of other examples. That woman made her choices, nobody force her to make the choices she did, or have kids while she was at risk of being deported. Yes I feel very sorry for the kids, but that does not excuse her from the consequences of her choices, and the kids suffer for it unfortunately. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by domboy

[TPreston]

13 minutes ago, domboy said:

"The sins of the fathers will be visited upon the children... "

 

Of course it isn't the children's fault, but it is all too common for kids to suffer for their parents dumb choices. That is life. Look at divorce... who suffers the most? The kids. There are a host of other examples. That woman made her choices, nobody force her to make the choices she did, or have kids while she was at risk of being deported. Yes I feel very sorry for the kids, but that does not excuse her from the consequences of her choices, and the kids suffer for it unfortunately. 

Enjoy the political and ethical blowback from tearing families apart.

[domboy]

32 minutes ago, TPreston said:

Enjoy the political and ethical blowback from tearing families apart.

Are you suggesting we should withhold punishing lawbreakers because their kids will get hurt in the process? Sorry, real life doesn't work that way. If I go out and commit a crime and end up in jail or worse, yeah it's gonna hurt my kids. This isn't utopia, xanadu, or some other supremely perfect society where nobody does anything wrong so nobody ever gets hurt. Part of being an adult is learning to make wise choices. This woman chose to immigrate illegally, and then chose to have kids. Her bad choices caught up with her.

 

"Think of the children" (which is basically what I read in your above comment) is nothing more than an appeal to emotion. As a parent she should have thought of her children, yet she chose to put them all at risk. She is the one that responsible for tearing her family apart.

 

 

[Zinomian]

I do not disagree that these people entered this country illegally, and for that they should be "punished", however, how to punish or what the punishment should be is what needs to be given a LOT of thought.    Simply being content with destroying families, feels, well, quite un-American. 

 

IMO most of these families are law abiding individuals, who MOST pay taxes (using either fake or Tax ID's), and simply getting rid of them, is a loosing proposition.   The smart way would be to setup a process where these individuals have patch to legal status, following:

 

A. An individual cannot have any criminal issues/background.

B. An individual has had to been paying taxes for over 90% of the time that they have resided in the US (100% for the last 5 years, if residence is longer than 7 years).

C. Have a job and NOT be on any welfare program (and will not be for the next 5 years).

D. Pay a huge fine.  *10k? 20k? 30k?  (people would pay what ever to have a path to citizenship....income for the US).

E. This program will not be offered to anyone who has entered the country once this plan is announced (roll it back 3 - 4 years if you like to discourage anyone who has been here for a short while).

 

Not saying this would be a cure all and be all, but it just feel like a smarter solution.  Together will a more strict border security, and enforcing deportation rules on ALL and any person with any criminal background, would to me, be a much smarter way to deal with all the "illegal" population here.   Just simply saying, "get out", doesn't quite cut it.

[SoCalRox]

2 hours ago, TPreston said:

Blaming the children for the fault of the adults. Tearing family's apart. What an ugly policy that I suspect will be expanded upon in the next few years.

Get mad at the parents, not the USA. THEY screwed you by doing this. And just be glad you didn't get to Mexico illegally.

1 hour ago, domboy said:

"The sins of the fathers will be visited upon the children... "

 

Of course it isn't the children's fault, but it is all too common for kids to suffer for their parents dumb choices. That is life. Look at divorce... who suffers the most? The kids. There are a host of other examples. That woman made her choices, nobody force her to make the choices she did, or have kids while she was at risk of being deported. Yes I feel very sorry for the kids, but that does not excuse her from the consequences of her choices, and the kids suffer for it unfortunately. 

Indeed, this should serve as a deterrent for those coming in illegally.

[Emn1ty]

1 hour ago, Zinomian said:

IMO most of these families are law abiding individuals, who MOST pay taxes (using either fake or Tax ID's)

They are not law abiding by definition as they entered the country illegally. Then you even layer on top of it tax fraud. They break numerous laws, like not having car insurance, driving without a license, using fake identification (often times identity theft).

[SoCalRox]

1 hour ago, Zinomian said:

I do not disagree that these people entered this country illegally, and for that they should be "punished", however, how to punish or what the punishment should be is what needs to be given a LOT of thought.    Simply being content with destroying families, feels, well, quite un-American. 

 

IMO most of these families are law abiding individuals, who MOST pay taxes (using either fake or Tax ID's), and simply getting rid of them, is a loosing proposition.   The smart way would be to setup a process where these individuals have patch to legal status, following:

 

A. An individual cannot have any criminal issues/background.

B. An individual has had to been paying taxes for over 90% of the time that they have resided in the US (100% for the last 5 years, if residence is longer than 7 years).

C. Have a job and NOT be on any welfare program (and will not be for the next 5 years).

D. Pay a huge fine.  *10k? 20k? 30k?  (people would pay what ever to have a path to citizenship....income for the US).

E. This program will not be offered to anyone who has entered the country once this plan is announced (roll it back 3 - 4 years if you like to discourage anyone who has been here for a short while).

 

Not saying this would be a cure all and be all, but it just feel like a smarter solution.  Together will a more strict border security, and enforcing deportation rules on ALL and any person with any criminal background, would to me, be a much smarter way to deal with all the "illegal" population here.   Just simply saying, "get out", doesn't quite cut it.

A. They already have shown disregard for the law by coming here illegally- and they knew they were doing so.

B. Taxes has nothing to do with it. If they paid taxes using someone else's SSN to fake credentials, do you think THAT should count?
C. That still leaves a huge number.

D. How do these people get that kind of money? Both my wife and I have full time jobs, good pay, and couldn't pay that fine.

[Zinomian]

3 minutes ago, SoCalRox said:

A. They already have shown disregard for the law by coming here illegally- and they knew they were doing so.

B. Taxes has nothing to do with it. If they paid taxes using someone else's SSN to fake credentials, do you think THAT should count?
C. That still leaves a huge number.

D. How do these people get that kind of money? Both my wife and I have full time jobs, good pay, and couldn't pay that fine.

Breaking the "entry laws of this country" is one thing, and I can not defend that or disagree that a law was broken , however, MOST of these individuals live quiet lives, and do not break other major laws (only other I have witnessed is driving without a licensed due to also laws).   As mentioned, most drove without a license, simply because they could not get one legally, however, as some states such as CT and CA have done, they now allow these individuals to obtain driver license and drive legally (I do not believe for a second that MOST could drive a car without insurance or registration, that simply is not true....non on their name, but simply stating that MOST had no insure or proper registration is false).

 

Taxes...I have seen plenty of cases, where rather than pay using someone else's SSN, these individuals use something called a TAX ID, which is almost like having your own SSN, except they are not allowed to collect if they retire in the US.  (Personal experience with people i know).

 

How do these people get that kind of money? you would be surprise how hard they work, and how many jobs they would do just to pay a fine to make sure they would be allowed to stay here legally.

 

You are assuming that illegal immigrants are a all thieves, and trying to take advantage of the US, however, most simply want to work in peace, pay their taxes, and give their children a decent future.   Not different at all from ALL immigration to this country, starting with the pilgrims.   And the argument that your family came legally in the 1700, or 1800's etc, is crap.....how hard was it to come to the U.S. then? Sign a paper, pay something and welcome in!  It is not anything close to what someone trying to come to the U.S. now has to go through, specially if you are from a muslim country.

 

Not sure what your experience has been with folks who are illegally in this country, however, from my own personal experience, most fit on the descriptions i have posted.....ALL whom i have met pay their taxes via the tax ID, all drive cars with proper documentation, and as of a year or two ago, all now drive with proper driver licenses, once they were allowed to do so.    Asking them, if they would pay fines to find a path to legalization, all have said they would work an entire lifetime to do be able to have that chance........

 

These people are not THEM, they are us.....US.  

[ensiform]

2 hours ago, Zinomian said:

Breaking the "entry laws of this country" is one thing, and I can not defend that or disagree that a law was broken , however, MOST of these individuals live quiet lives, and do not break other major laws (only other I have witnessed is driving without a licensed due to also laws).   As mentioned, most drove without a license, simply because they could not get one legally, however, as some states such as CT and CA have done, they now allow these individuals to obtain driver license and drive legally (I do not believe for a second that MOST could drive a car without insurance or registration, that simply is not true....non on their name, but simply stating that MOST had no insure or proper registration is false).

 

Taxes...I have seen plenty of cases, where rather than pay using someone else's SSN, these individuals use something called a TAX ID, which is almost like having your own SSN, except they are not allowed to collect if they retire in the US.  (Personal experience with people i know).

 

How do these people get that kind of money? you would be surprise how hard they work, and how many jobs they would do just to pay a fine to make sure they would be allowed to stay here legally.

 

You are assuming that illegal immigrants are a all thieves, and trying to take advantage of the US, however, most simply want to work in peace, pay their taxes, and give their children a decent future.   Not different at all from ALL immigration to this country, starting with the pilgrims.   And the argument that your family came legally in the 1700, or 1800's etc, is crap.....how hard was it to come to the U.S. then? Sign a paper, pay something and welcome in!  It is not anything close to what someone trying to come to the U.S. now has to go through, specially if you are from a muslim country.

 

Not sure what your experience has been with folks who are illegally in this country, however, from my own personal experience, most fit on the descriptions i have posted.....ALL whom i have met pay their taxes via the tax ID, all drive cars with proper documentation, and as of a year or two ago, all now drive with proper driver licenses, once they were allowed to do so.    Asking them, if they would pay fines to find a path to legalization, all have said they would work an entire lifetime to do be able to have that chance........

 

These people are not THEM, they are us.....US.  

 

 

 

I never was for deporting everyone.  I'm for some amount of people being granted passes.  BUT "Entry laws of this country" are felonies.  Thus citizenship and voting rights are denied.  if they really did come here illegally how in the heck do they have valid documentation?  There is no simple solution that doesn't cause some amount of hurt feelings.

 

It's not nearly as bad as Trump views it, granted but things could be better.  And more of the illegals here are in fact just overstaying their welcome.  (Expired visas).  The problem I am seeing from many of you is appealing to emotions simply because it involves other human beings.  Putting a stop to incorrect and invalid entry is merely one step towards ultimate goals of fixing immigration IMO. Trump's wall isn't going to help.  Improved education and increasing access to legal entry will help.  Increasing patrols or more state of the art preventative measures would be smarter.

 

Turning this into a "them vs us" thing isn't really solving anything.  The country was founded on legal migration, not enter as you please.

[hagjohn]

4 hours ago, domboy said:

Are you suggesting we should withhold punishing lawbreakers because their kids will get hurt in the process? Sorry, real life doesn't work that way. If I go out and commit a crime and end up in jail or worse, yeah it's gonna hurt my kids. This isn't utopia, xanadu, or some other supremely perfect society where nobody does anything wrong so nobody ever gets hurt. Part of being an adult is learning to make wise choices. This woman chose to immigrate illegally, and then chose to have kids. Her bad choices caught up with her.

 

"Think of the children" (which is basically what I read in your above comment) is nothing more than an appeal to emotion. As a parent she should have thought of her children, yet she chose to put them all at risk. She is the one that responsible for tearing her family apart.

Until illegal immigration is stopped, sending people home is just wasted money, IMO. People will just come back over but our gov't often puts the cart in front of the horse.

[techbeck]

bummer

[+primortal Subscriber²]

I love the fact we're punishing just the illegals.  How about also going after the people that are illegally paying their wages?  How about going after the person that's renting them their apartment or house as well?  Let share the pain an misery all around

[DocM]

12 minutes ago, hagjohn said:

Until illegal immigration is stopped, sending people home is just wasted money, IMO. People will just come back over but our gov't doesn't always figure out the best way to proceed on issues.

 

Essentially; until <enter crime> is stopped, don't punish it because it's wasted money.

 

Talk about a fallacy which leads to dark places 

 

Get a grip. Kids are "hurt" by criminal parents going to jail every day, what makes an illegal alien a special case over a check kiter, drunk driver, shoplifter or whatever? If they don't have alternate caregivers for their kids they go to the foster care system, and given a felonious, stupid mother that may not be a bad thing.

[hagjohn]

1 hour ago, DocM said:

Essentially; until <enter crime> is stopped, don't punish it because it's wasted money.

 

Talk about a fallacy which leads to dark places 

 

Get a grip. Kids are "hurt" by criminal parents going to jail every day, what makes an illegal alien a special case over a check kiter, drunk driver, shoplifter or whatever? If they don't have alternate caregivers for their kids they go to the foster care system, and given a felonious, stupid mother that may not be a bad thing.

Because they just come back over. What did you gain by rounding someone up, sending them back, just to have the come back over? You gained nothing.

[Emn1ty]

1 hour ago, primortal said:

I love the fact we're punishing just the illegals.  How about also going after the people that are illegally paying their wages?  How about going after the person that's renting them their apartment or house as well?  Let share the pain an misery all around

I completely agree with this.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

1 hour ago, primortal said:

I love the fact we're punishing just the illegals.  How about also going after the people that are illegally paying their wages?  How about going after the person that's renting them their apartment or house as well?  Let share the pain an misery all around

True, cut off access to those things and coming here illegally would add to losing its appeal.

[+primortal Subscriber²]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

True, cut off access to those things and coming here illegally would add to losing its appeal.

Start fining these companies/people per-head and on top of that they must pay for room and board (per-head) till deported along with deportation fees (per-head).  Want to see how fast this illegal immigration comes to a standstill

[ensiform]

33 minutes ago, hagjohn said:

Because they just come back over. What did you gain by rounding someone up, sending them back, just to have the come back over? You gained nothing.

That's why you need to show it's not something tolerated.  And if we step up efforts of preventing them from crossing by adding in some fear, they'll think twice.  More guard towers, shoot warning shots, (or regular) or mines.  Might be harsh but hey, it gets the message across.  Or just some kind of futuristic forcefield system would be cool too.

[hagjohn]

6 minutes ago, ensiform said:

That's why you need to show it's not something tolerated.  And if we step up efforts of preventing them from crossing by adding in some fear, they'll think twice.  More guard towers, shoot warning shots, (or regular) or mines.  Might be harsh but hey, it gets the message across.  Or just some kind of futuristic forcefield system would be cool too.

You have to have a comprehensive policy, which nobody in Washington has cared to do. 

[+Raze Subscriber²]

1 minute ago, primortal said:

Start fining these companies/people per-head and on top of that they must pay for room and board (per-head) along with deportation fees (per-head).  Want to see how fast this illegal immigration comes to a standstill

I lived in southern California for years, worked in, than owned a construction business.  Whenever we went to a lumber supply store, Buena Park Lumber, Home Depot, etc. there were always an area where you could find "day workers" mostly illegal immigrants.  Some builders would stop and call for 1, 2 or however many they needed and off they would go.  A colleague of mine told me you could hire them for $10-$20/day.  I personally never went that route, but it was common.  Local authorities often looked the other way, but whenever the Border Patrol was making the rounds those day workers disappeared.

[ensiform]

4 hours ago, hagjohn said:

You have to have a comprehensive policy, which nobody in Washington has cared to do. 

 

Isn't that what Trump is trying to do by shaking things up though?

[Buttus]

the whole thing that i think people seem to be missing is, as an example using the mom with the two kids.

 

the mom commits a crime, and either goes to jail or gets deported.  it's the same to the kids.   she committed a crime, she has to pay for it.  it sucks that the kids get the raw end of the deal, but that's how it works.