68 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, LostCat said:

HDMI has never needed Dolby Digital Live for 5.1 channels of uncompressed audio.

The OP has already stated several times that HDMI is NOT an option for his receiver.

 

I'm skeptical that your statement is correct because Dolby Labs wants their "pound of flesh" but it's off topic so if you can provide a reference to support your claim I'd really appreciate reading about that and how it came to actually get past the sharks at Dolby Labs.

 

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2 hours ago, DevTech said:

The OP has already stated several times that HDMI is NOT an option for his receiver.

 

I'm skeptical that your statement is correct because Dolby Labs wants their "pound of flesh" but it's off topic so if you can provide a reference to support your claim I'd really appreciate reading about that and how it came to actually get past the sharks at Dolby Labs.

 

Read up on HDMI yeesh.  Neither HDMI nor Displayport needs DDL or any other form of compressed audio path to play 5.1.  PCM is not a Dolby technology.

Quoting the basics from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Quote

For digital audio, if an HDMI device has audio, it is required to implement the baseline format: stereo (uncompressed) PCM. Other formats are optional, with HDMI allowing up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio at sample sizes of 16-bit, 20-bit and 24-bit, with sample rates of 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz and 192 kHz.

 

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15 minutes ago, LostCat said:

Read up on HDMI yeesh.  Neither HDMI nor Displayport needs DDL or any other form of compressed audio path to play 5.1.  PCM is not a Dolby technology.

Quoting the basics from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

 

Seriously? do you want to inform people or just be argumentative?

 

All Receivers all play Dolby 5.1 (unless low cost stereo device of course)

 

The only way to encode it either for an audio cable or a HDMI cable is via Dolby Digital Live.

 

So that works.

 

From your link: " if an HDMI device has audio, it is required to implement the baseline format: stereo (uncompressed) PCM. Other formats are optional"

 

So sure, if the receiver specs show it takes audio over HDMI and it shows that it supports 8 channel LPCM, you are good to go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulation

 

But one thing is for sure is that receiver will do Dolby Digital

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital

 

Sure, I think it sucks that Dolby Labs didn't make an exception for consumer PCs for the benefit of all mankind or that Microsoft didn't hit them with a hammer to make it happen because it has caused countless issues over a period of many many years for no reason other than pure greed and it seems that it just won't stop until there is universal implementation of LPCM mult-channel audio on all HDMI interfaces and HDMI becomes the universally accepted audio interface for human space. I cheer on that day as much as I imagine you would like to do, but we are not even close to being there yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, DevTech said:

The only way to encode it either for an audio cable or a HDMI cable is via Dolby Digital Live.

You know me right?  I inform people AND be argumentative.  Frankly, you're speaking complete horseshit.

 

If you could understand the material, you'd see that you can do 8 channel uncompressed with no need of Dolby or DTS tech.

 

Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connects outputs are compressed (and seriously old, to boot) and only required for optical or coax digital cabling, not HDMI.

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx#4

Quote

Q. Does HDMI support Dolby Digital, DTS, and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any currently available flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby (including Dolby Digital EX 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby TrueHD) or DTS (including DTS-ES 6.1 and DTS-HD Master Audio). Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces. HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless digital surround audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Additionally, most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio over HDMI.

 

Edited by LostCat

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@Draconis1

 

Have you consulted with your A/V receiver's manual? Is there an example of a setup there which is similar to what you're doing? Have you double-checked the direction of your inputs and outputs on your A/V?

 

What is it that you're trying to achieve at all?

 

Your A/V receiver is a hub. "Its primary purpose is to receive audio and video signals from a number of sources, processing them to drive loudspeakers and a display." It's called a receiver for a reason, as opposed to "a sender" :D What exactly are you trying to do? Do you want to record on your computer some TV shows from your dish network? Hypothetically speaking, if you want to pass-thru the signal coming from your playstation or cablebox to PC, this won't work due to DCIM (digital rights management). You're going to need a special grabber that can by-pass DCIM in order to do this. And discussions of this sort are not permitted here at Neowin because it's a type of piracy. So, what is the initial source of your signal that you want to see ending up on your PC thru your A/V? Why not plug the source directly to the PC? Are you trying to digitize your collection of vinyl records or tapes by any chance?

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52 minutes ago, LostCat said:

You know me right?  I inform people AND be argumentative.  Frankly, you're speaking complete horseshit.

 

If you could understand the material, you'd see that you can do 8 channel uncompressed with no need of Dolby or DTS tech.

 

Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connects outputs are compressed (and seriously old, to boot) and only required for optical or coax digital cabling, not HDMI.

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx#4

 

Of course I understand the material and good grief am I supposed to now say you don't understand it and back and forth we go forever? Can we just assume that's all been done :)

 

1. Whatever he plugs into will have Dolby Digital. Period.

 

2. Whatever he plugs into MIGHT possibly have support for the OPTIONAL multi-channel HDMI LPCM.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I've never seen a receiver that doesn't support multi channel on HDMI unless of course it was a stereo receiver.  I have seen some funky HTIAB sets, which apparently is what he owns.

 

I was just pointing out Dolby is not required for multichannel audio over HDMI.  And it never was.

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7 hours ago, DevTech said:

The OP has already stated several times that HDMI is NOT an option for his receiver.

 

 

Except some how he's tried a multitude of HDMI cables. If the sound is still coming out of the front 2 stereo speakers on the PC he has obviously not changed the default playback device.

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6 hours ago, xendrome said:

Except some how he's tried a multitude of HDMI cables. If the sound is still coming out of the front 2 stereo speakers on the PC he has obviously not changed the default playback device.

He is always a bit short on detail so it looks like he can get audio ok but it is always Stereo instead of 5.1

 

So it looks like the issue is that a digital cable fibre optic audio or perhaps single coaxial cable audio or HDMI is going from his PC to his Receiver.

 

It might be possible he has confused an analog audio cable with an optical digital cable but as long as he has a digital bitstream going from the PC to the Audio Receiver, then if he is always getting Stereo, it is simply an issue of encoding 5.1 bitstreams.

 

It would help if he dug out his reciver manual and gave us a list of the bitstream formats that his receiver will accept.

 

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Ugh I know right?

 

I didn't want to screw around with my H87-Plus, I knew the onboard Realtek supposedly supports 7.1 (or 8.1 idk) but through analog. Had to order a custom PC backplate > mobo connector from Hong Kong, and it took weeks to get here, but it then enabled digital coax and optical through it to my digital 2.1 speaker system, which sounded loads better than when I had it connected through the standard analog audio jacks.

 

I do think it was poor of ASUS to build a board with proper digital out and then not bother to include a connector with it, my previous P5K-E even had that!

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7 minutes ago, Steven P. said:

Ugh I know right?

 

I didn't want to screw around with my H87-Plus, I knew the onboard Realtek supposedly supports 7.1 (or 8.1 idk) but through analog. Had to order a custom PC backplate > mobo connector from Hong Kong, and it took weeks to get here, but it then enabled digital coax and optical through it to my digital 2.1 speaker system, which sounded loads better than when I had it connected through the standard analog audio jacks.

 

I do think it was poor of ASUS to build a board with proper digital out and then not bother to include a connector with it, my previous P5K-E even had that!

You are really fortunate to have Stereo speakers. So when the stupid Dolby license crap limits your digital signal to Stereo only, you don't care!

 

For most people that default to a 5.1 setup, the greed of Dolby Labs has produced a digital audio nightmare and I suspect that ASUS did not provide a connector in order to save a ton of money on support costs. People who order the connector would presumably know what they are doing.

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Dolby Digital live / DTS interactive are great, a life saver when you want an easy solution with old standards.

They indeed lets you get 5.1 in movies and games over a single toslink optical or SPDIF and all you need is a receiver with a standard digital in that can decode Dolby Digital, or DTS.  I used it for a while when I got sick of running 6 analog signals to my reciever.

 

If the OP wants to use an old standard digital output from a sound card, to a standard digital input on this receiver, then I agree that DD Live / DTS Interactive will work just fine provider the receiver will decode. most system boards do not come with the license, and he will have to by a sound card to get one.

 

My suggestion was to turn all that old junk off, use HDMI

DD Live and DTS Interactive don't come into play, It's simply not needed for HDMI.

I included all the shots from my system, connected to a Nvidia 770, similar to him.

 

While OP seems to be contradictory, my money is still on there being confusion on in vs out and that his receiver does have a standard HDMI input.

 

OP leave the model number of your receiver in the thread. maybe a diagram of exactly what you have connected to where.

 

 

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19 hours ago, DevTech said:

Lack of information here.

 

Which soundcard did you get?

 

If you got a Creative with Dolby Digital Live capability, you need to go to the creative download area for the card and last time I looked there was an additional download for DDL but they change up their downloads a lot so it might be all in one again

 

Then you need to jump through some non-obvious config hoops which I suspect means they don't pay a license fee to Dolby Labs until you actually use it, which is the only reason I can think of to make an obviously needed and useful feature so incredibly hard to acquire and configure.

 

So even when you select Creative 5.1 Speakers for your output on the PC, DDL is still NOT enabled!

 

I will give you detailed steps if you confirm you have a DDL Creative card. Or you can poke around - the checkbox for it is buried a few levels deep...

 

The soundcard is a creative sound blaster Z, with Dolby Digital Live. It has both an optical in and out port. My receiver is plugged in via the optical out port. 

I downloaded plenty of drivers with Creative Software AutoUpdate that was installed on a disc. However one driver, likely the one that will get my rear speakers working with a 5.1 configuration, fails to download every time. No reasons or anything listed, it just says it failed to download and then the program closes.

At this point it's probably a small OS problem I should be able to find, but as far as sound configuration and hardware is concerned, it looks like my problem is solved.

Thanks everyone for your support! Please feel free to continue using my thread as a staging ground for your audio file debates.

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Posted (edited)

On 3/26/2017 at 10:51 PM, DevTech said:

Lack of information here.

 

Which soundcard did you get?

 

If you got a Creative with Dolby Digital Live capability, you need to go to the creative download area for the card and last time I looked there was an additional download for DDL but they change up their downloads a lot so it might be all in one again

 

Then you need to jump through some non-obvious config hoops which I suspect means they don't pay a license fee to Dolby Labs until you actually use it, which is the only reason I can think of to make an obviously needed and useful feature so incredibly hard to acquire and configure.

 

So even when you select Creative 5.1 Speakers for your output on the PC, DDL is still NOT enabled!

 

I will give you detailed steps if you confirm you have a DDL Creative card. Or you can poke around - the checkbox for it is buried a few levels deep...

 

Got rid of the installation bug, Creative Software AutoUpdate has now downloaded and installed all of the latest drivers. However, when I use the Creative Diagnostocs program or the regular desktop configuration tool for my speakers, the 2 "rear" speakers sound test just plays sound through my front speakers. When I hold my head close to one of the rear speakers, there is a little bit of sound coming out of them, but you don't notice it sitting on my couch.

This is by no means actually surround sound in any way.

Also when I look in device manager there are two unknown devices connected to my PC, obviously something to do with my new sound card. Searching for driver updates for the unknown devices yields nothing either.

A list of detailed steps would come in real handy now. thanks in advance, I think we're on the home stretch.

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Also, under the playback devices, two new devices are listed. "speakers" which are what I have connected to my soundcard via an optical cable. They are configured to 5.1 surround even though it's not working properly.

The other device I have is "SPDIF out" and I am not able to click on the configure button with this device selected. Upon testinig I can tell that it is configured to "stereo" because sound only comes from my front left, and then front right speaker.

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5 hours ago, Draconis1 said:

Also, under the playback devices, two new devices are listed. "speakers" which are what I have connected to my soundcard via an optical cable. They are configured to 5.1 surround even though it's not working properly.

The other device I have is "SPDIF out" and I am not able to click on the configure button with this device selected. Upon testinig I can tell that it is configured to "stereo" because sound only comes from my front left, and then front right speaker.

Under Playback Devices, Creative Speakers is the one to right-click and set as default

 

You can also right-click that and select Properties

 

Under Propterties there is a TAB labeled SoundBlaster

 

In there might be the Dolby Digital Live checkbox to enable but it might be harder to find

 

They sell products with DDL as a major feature then they try all sorts of tricks to prevent it from actually being used. I wonder what the heck is the license fee they actually have to send to Dolby Labs?

 

Anyways I'm not in front of my computer ATM with my Creative card so I look at those settings as soon as I can.

 

 

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2 hours ago, DevTech said:

In there might be the Dolby Digital Live checkbox to enable but it might be harder to find

I don't see anything.

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AHA! I found the encoder for DDL under my sound blaster control panel. THE REAR SPEAKERS ARE WORKING.

Thanks for all the help! I'm now fully immersed in the Andromeda galaxy :D
 

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