Scorpio offical reveal incoming, along with 4K Forza, RDR2 and Battlefront.

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+Asmodai    637
On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:00 PM, dwLostCat said:

I wasn't talking about launch, except that I don't know the state of the low level renderer at the time.

Seriously!?!  Your first post in this back and forth included my quote where I stated:

"MS took a lot of flack from developers for launching Xbox One with pretty much vanilla DX11 on day one instead of a lower level API."

To which you repied:

"To my knowledge Xbox One has always..."

As if to contradict my statement.  Last I checked "always" includes "at launch" or "on day one".

Since you're now admitting you don't know the state of the low level renderer at the time though this discussion is clearly over.  To your credit though you did prefix your statement with "To my knowledge..." which you now admit you didn't have any.

 

Quote

I don't think you gave me a link to read, and yes I prefer to work with actual facts in front of me and searching wasn't finding them.

I didn't give you a link, I thought I gave enough info to find it but if not:

Google: Xbox One SDK Leak eurogamer

Top Result is:

The evolution of Xbox One - as told by the SDK leak

It covers A LOT more than just the renderer but for the purposes of this discussion pay attention to the original renderer vs. the "monolithic" one.  The mono one is the low level one but it didn't LAUNCH with that as I stated.  It's an interesting read all in all if you like that sort of thing though.

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LaP    1,750
Posted (edited)
On 2017-04-09 at 4:25 AM, George P said:

The play anywhere stuff is nice but some say it's hurting hardware sales because why get an xbox if you can play on the PC? 

This is probably the most stupid reason people bring to justify not having play anywhere for all games.

 

MS doesn't make money by selling xbox. They make money by selling games, online sub, music, movie, digital games, etc. The store is where the money is today.

 

MS doesn't gain anything from not having an universal store. It's actually hurting MS more than anything else.

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George P    3,588
48 minutes ago, LaP said:

This is probably the most stupid reason people bring to justify not having play anywhere for all games.

 

MS doesn't make money by selling xbox. They make money by selling games, online sub, music, movie, digital games, etc. The store is where the money is today.

 

MS doesn't gain anything from not having an universal store. It's actually hurting MS more than anything else.

I agree with you, I like the idea of play anywhere, buy once have it on pc and console, cross-play and so on.  Just the idea of syncing your saves between console and PC is great IMO.    I'm all for it, the fact is that console players are going to play on console, and PC will play on PC, or like me, play on both whenever I feel like it.

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dwLostCat    1,007
Posted (edited)
On 5/12/2017 at 1:32 PM, Asmodai said:

The evolution of Xbox One - as told by the SDK leak

It covers A LOT more than just the renderer but for the purposes of this discussion pay attention to the original renderer vs. the "monolithic" one.  The mono one is the low level one but it didn't LAUNCH with that as I stated.  It's an interesting read all in all if you like that sort of thing though.

Thanks.  I'm sure I've read it before though not recently.

 

I'll look it over again but I'm not sure it matters to me anymore...the history is just useless info at this point, and I'm still mainly a PC gamer even if I do play on whatever platforms I feel like. 

 

As for Sony, they had the early win obviously but the PS4 Pro doesn't seem to be doing the platform justice.  I want one, but as I'm mostly doing 1440p these days...so many reasons not to care.

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+Asmodai    637
10 hours ago, dwLostCat said:

I'll look it over again but I'm not sure it matters to me anymore...the history is just useless info at this point, and I'm still mainly a PC gamer even if I do play on whatever platforms I feel like. 

Again, if that's the case I don't know why you replied to and quoted my comment about the early days to start all this then but whatever.

10 hours ago, dwLostCat said:

As for Sony, they had the early win obviously but the PS4 Pro doesn't seem to be doing the platform justice.  I want one, but as I'm mostly doing 1440p these days...so many reasons not to care.

I personally think the PS4 Pro was a mistake.  Sony was already dominating console sales this generation and the gap is likely too large for MS to ever close.  There was no need for them to create new hardware with a significantly different performance profile.  It can't actually hit true 4k in most titles and doesn't support Ultra HD Blu-Ray for disc playback so it doesn't really hit the mark for replacement.  Microsoft launching more powerful hardware a year later in Project Scorpio just makes it that much worse as Project Scorpio CAN hit 4k and even the Xbox One S does support Ultra HD Blu-Ray.  In my opinion they should have just stuck with the PS4 Slim (possibly with Ultra HD Blu-Ray support like the Xbox One S) and left it at that.  Sony dominated at launch but I think MS has done much better with the follow up hardware (and software), unfortunately for MS the damage is done and again I suspect the sales gap is just too large to close for this generation.  They are positioning themselves well for next generation though and Project Scorpio does look amazing.

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dwLostCat    1,007
6 hours ago, Asmodai said:

I personally think the PS4 Pro was a mistake.

I think it might be poor value for those who already have a PS4, but it could've been introduced better and brought even more gamers into the Sony ecosystem.  I still might get one for Persona 5 and whatnot but it seems like the Xbox One at launch, good hardware alongside an unready software ecosystem making for a poor overall experience.

 

I'll be shocked if Scorpio is flawless, but even more so if it felt rushed out the door like those two.

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+E.worm Jimmy    9,980
7 hours ago, Asmodai said:

Again, if that's the case I don't know why you replied to and quoted my comment about the early days to start all this then but whatever.

I personally think the PS4 Pro was a mistake.  Sony was already dominating console sales this generation and the gap is likely too large for MS to ever close.  There was no need for them to create new hardware with a significantly different performance profile.  It can't actually hit true 4k in most titles and doesn't support Ultra HD Blu-Ray for disc playback so it doesn't really hit the mark for replacement.  Microsoft launching more powerful hardware a year later in Project Scorpio just makes it that much worse as Project Scorpio CAN hit 4k and even the Xbox One S does support Ultra HD Blu-Ray.  In my opinion they should have just stuck with the PS4 Slim (possibly with Ultra HD Blu-Ray support like the Xbox One S) and left it at that.  Sony dominated at launch but I think MS has done much better with the follow up hardware (and software), unfortunately for MS the damage is done and again I suspect the sales gap is just too large to close for this generation.  They are positioning themselves well for next generation though and Project Scorpio does look amazing.

I bought PS4 and I love it.  Playing some HDR titles and some 4k ones. Not much, but they look amazing.   I got xbox one almost at launch, and I returned it 3 weeks later.  Nothing to play for me. Most games that are good, I already have on PC (and prefer it) and the others (online multiplayer, or sports) I don't care about at all.   It was mostly a UHD blueray player for 3 weeks.  I already have a gaming PC and Xbox seemed pointless.

 

PS4 Pro exclusive games, I mostly love to play.  This is something I cannot get on PC.  And I love that I can play them now at high quality on my 4k hdr tv.      The Last of Us Remastered and Uncharted 4 are to die 4.    I am keeping PS4 and skipping Scorpio even if it can do better graphics.  My PC can probably match Scorpio, and can get all the same games.... what's the point then...

 

Play anywhere sounds great, but I already can connect my PC to my TV.   Why bother with Xbox? I personally see no reason at all.

 

Again, this is personal opinion, but I dont think PS4 Pro was a mistake at all. It is catering to the PS fans, who are not interested in Xbox.  I could have gotten PS4 from my friend for free, he does not play it anymore, but I got PS4 Pro instead to enjoy the graphical upgrades, even if they are not as great as Scorpio, but I am enjoying them NOW.

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dwLostCat    1,007
2 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

My PC can probably match Scorpio, and can get all the same games.... what's the point then...

One could ask how much you've spent on that PC (likely a hell of a lot more than Scorpio if it can match it) and point out there are still a lot of games (especially now with the backwards compatibility catalog, but still several without too) that aren't on PC.  And yes, MS is making it very easy to stick with PC if that's where you want to play games, so whatever works.

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+E.worm Jimmy    9,980
15 hours ago, dwLostCat said:

One could ask how much you've spent on that PC (likely a hell of a lot more than Scorpio if it can match it) and point out there are still a lot of games (especially now with the backwards compatibility catalog, but still several without too) that aren't on PC.  And yes, MS is making it very easy to stick with PC if that's where you want to play games, so whatever works.

 

Exactly my point. PS4 Pro caters to the different audience than Scorpio.  People with powerful gaming PCs are less likely to care for Scorpio, even if it is more powerful the PS4 Pro.    

Each has it's own market. But my point was that Sony did not need to match the power of Scorpio and do true 4k to be an attractive buy, like someone before implied.

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+Asmodai    637
17 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

I bought PS4 and I love it.

Did you mean the PRO here?  I have a (launch) PS4 and love it as well, it also does HDR on my 4k TV since Sony added that to ALL PS4s via a software update.

17 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

  Playing some HDR titles and some 4k ones. Not much, but they look amazing.   I got xbox one almost at launch, and I returned it 3 weeks later.  Nothing to play for me. Most games that are good, I already have on PC (and prefer it) and the others (online multiplayer, or sports) I don't care about at all.   It was mostly a UHD blueray player for 3 weeks.  I already have a gaming PC and Xbox seemed pointless.

Project Scorpio is likely to be my first ever Xbox... I haven't been tempted to get one until now.  Project Scorpio is likely to have the best version of multiplatform console titles going forward (due to higher performing hardare) once it launches so I anticipate buying all future multiplatform titles for it.  Again though I still love my PS4 and I won't be getting rid of it, I have quite a library of games built up that I'm not going to just throw away and I'll need it for PlayStation exclusives going forward like the upcoming God of War even once Project Scorpio launches.  Also also anticipate my Project Scorpio will replace my PS4 as my go-to optical disc player (DVD, Blu-Ray, Ultra HD Blu-Ray).  I haven't bought a stand-alone optical disc player for a TV since DVDs were new, they've always been my consoles and I don't anticipate that changing.  I would have bought a second PS4 if they had one with a Ultra HD Blu-Ray drive.  We still redbox and exchange movie discs at the office and stuff so we haven't gone 100% streaming yet... and I don't see that happening any time soon (if at all).  We DO have Amazon Prime but I personally think Netflix it too expensive for the number of movies we watch and streaming has way too much compression when compared to discs.  Just my opinion but I'd rather watch a Blu-Ray optical disc with it's lower compression than a 4k Netflix version of a movie with it's heavy compression.

 

17 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

 

PS4 Pro exclusive games, I mostly love to play.

I'm not sure what you mean here... there are no PS4 Pro exclusive games.  Every PS4 Pro game you can play on the launch PS4 (again, which also supports HDR if the game supports it)

17 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

  This is something I cannot get on PC.  And I love that I can play them now at high quality on my 4k hdr tv.      The Last of Us Remastered and Uncharted 4 are to die 4.    I am keeping PS4 and skipping Scorpio even if it can do better graphics.  My PC can probably match Scorpio, and can get all the same games.... what's the point then...

 

Play anywhere sounds great, but I already can connect my PC to my TV.   Why bother with Xbox? I personally see no reason at all.

I have a (launch PS4) and a gaming PC but I'm still most likely getting Project Scorpio.  I think Play Anywhere is awesome, best thing MS has done in a while IMHO.  Technically I can connect my PC to my TV as well but I have ZERO interest in doing so.  The vast majority of people have no interest in hooking a full PC to their TV, it's just something a fringe group of people do.  It also has nothing to do with tech-savvy or anything.  I'm a programmer by profession and I build my own PCs but I STILL have ZERO interest in hooking a full PC to a living room TV even though I know how to do it, it's just not something I even WANT to do.   For me at least games on the TV should have UIs playable from a couch 10' away from the screen and typically controlled by a gamepad.  Games for a PC you sit right in front of the screen and typically control the game with a mouse and keyboard.  They have radically different UIs because of that and while they CAN work on both they're not very good on the one they weren't designed for.  For example the Skyrim UI was made for a console and absolutely sucks IMHO on PC using mouse and keyboard.  I have no desire to play Skyrim on PC with a gamepad, I want the mouse and keyboard experience, but the UI is terrible for that.  Fortunately it supports mod and there is the excellent SkyUI that replaces the console-centric UI with a nice mouse/keyboard centric UI (though it still supports gamepads as well).  That's just one example.

 

I also think it's cool that I could play a game on my Project Scorpio in the living room and then if my gf wants to watch the 4k living room TV I could go upstairs to the "office" and load up the same game (that I didn't have to buy twice) on my Win10 gaming PC and continue right where I left off (same save file) up there.

 

17 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

Again, this is personal opinion, but I dont think PS4 Pro was a mistake at all. It is catering to the PS fans, who are not interested in Xbox.  I could have gotten PS4 from my friend for free, he does not play it anymore, but I got PS4 Pro instead to enjoy the graphical upgrades, even if they are not as great as Scorpio, but I am enjoying them NOW.

PS fans who are not interested in Xbox were already buying the PS4, so who's it catering to?  Sony didn't know about Project Scorpio when they designed and launched the PS4 Pro so it wasn't in response to that.  Sony already had superior hardware, even the launch PS4 still has a better GPU, faster memory, etc. than the newer Xbox One S.  No console fans "who are not interested in Xbox" was going to go out and buy an Xbox instead of a PS4 Slim had PS4 Pro NOT launched.  Sony split their community into two different performance levels for the first time in Sony console history for no good reason IMHO.

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+E.worm Jimmy    9,980
6 hours ago, Asmodai said:

PS fans who are not interested in Xbox were already buying the PS4, so who's it catering to?  Sony didn't know about Project Scorpio when they designed and launched the PS4 Pro so it wasn't in response to that.  Sony already had superior hardware, even the launch PS4 still has a better GPU, faster memory, etc. than the newer Xbox One S.  No console fans "who are not interested in Xbox" was going to go out and buy an Xbox instead of a PS4 Slim had PS4 Pro NOT launched.  Sony split their community into two different performance levels for the first time in Sony console history for no good reason IMHO.

It's catering to people like me who like PS4 exclusives (obviously I meant PS4 games, there are no Pro exclusives...)  yet want to enjoy them at higher res.   I had PS3, but I did not buy PS4 until pro

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dwLostCat    1,007
Posted (edited)

Well I just bought a Pro with the Destiny collection and Persona 5.  I can't say I really need it, but a lot of my friends are in the Sony camp and I'm about to get a new job I think.

 

Frankly, I've spent a lot of money on my PC but I'd have to practically spend as much as a new console on the video card alone to come close to Scorpio.  (And probably will, since I'm too far into the high end camp for my own good.)

 

At some point I'm just going to have to admit I'm far past 'good enough.'  Heh.

 

(ooh, Injustice 2 as well.  That's enough for now.)

Edited by dwLostCat

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+Asmodai    637
16 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

It's catering to people like me who like PS4 exclusives (obviously I meant PS4 games, there are no Pro exclusives...)  yet want to enjoy them at higher res.   I had PS3, but I did not buy PS4 until pro

My point is that if the PS4 Pro didn't exist at all... then you would have likely just bought the PS4 Slim.  The PS4 Slim is already superior gaming hardware (GPU, memory, etc.) to any Xbox One currently available.  You'd still be playing them at a "higher res" than the competing console, you'd still be using HDR on your 4k TV since that was a software update even on the launch PS4.  The only thing you'd lose is a resolution bump that can't even really make it to true 4k.  Are you seriously telling me that if Sony never launched the PS4 Pro you would have either bought an Xbox One or just skipped this generation entirely?  I find that hard to believe.  Sony was likely going to get your money for their PS4 exclusives as you state no matter if they released the Pro or not.  As such there was no need to create two performance profiles in one console generation for the first time in PlayStation history.  It makes more sense for MS where the gap between the launch Xbox One and Project Scorpio is FAR larger than the performance gap between the PS4 and the PS4 Pro AND Project Scorpio allows MS to go from the lowest performance hardware to the highest.  The PS4 Pro has Sony go from the already top performing hardware to a slightly faster but still can't hit true 4k regularly if you exclude Project Scorpio (which they didn't know about) or if you include Project Scorpio then it's goes from second to a faster second behind Project Scorpio... what's the point in that?

 

I'd just like to add that I'm not criticizing the purchase of a Pro.  If I didn't already have a PS4 and was looking to buy one after the Pro launched I'd probably seriously consider it myself.  My point is that I think it was a mistake for Sony to create it, not for people to buy it once it was created.  I think it was a mistake to create two different performance levels in a single console generation.  But as long as there ARE two different performance levels I absolutely do not fault people for buying the higher one.  I'm not going to run out and replace my launch PS4 with a Pro but again if I didn't already have one and was looking I'd probably get one.

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George P    3,588

This idea that you don't have to buy a Xbox if you game on the PC is weird to me, I have a brand new gaming PC, but I also play on my Xbox One, and I'll probably get a scorpio as well.  Why should I only play on one or the other?   Sometimes I'm fine with playing on my 24" monitor and sometimes I just wanna sit back and play on my new 55" 4k hdr TV.   The fact I can also buy one game and play it on both systems without having to pay extra, and also sync my stuff between the two systems, is great.

 

I mean heck, a good number of PS4 console exclusives are ending up on the PC, even if they never end up on the Xbox, so by the same logic, why do I need a PS4?   I can play Nier on the PC just as well if I felt like it.   

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dwLostCat    1,007
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, George P said:

I mean heck, a good number of PS4 console exclusives are ending up on the PC, even if they never end up on the Xbox, so by the same logic, why do I need a PS4?   I can play Nier on the PC just as well if I felt like it.   

Yeah that was a good chunk of why I never bothered with a PS4, so much stuff was showing up on PC already.

 

A lot of newer releases seem to be ignoring PC (FF15, Injustice 2, Akiba's Beat, Horizon, etc...) some of which is unexpected given their predecessors.

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MikeChipshop    3,401
14 hours ago, George P said:

This idea that you don't have to buy a Xbox if you game on the PC is weird to me, I have a brand new gaming PC, but I also play on my Xbox One, and I'll probably get a scorpio as well.  Why should I only play on one or the other?   Sometimes I'm fine with playing on my 24" monitor and sometimes I just wanna sit back and play on my new 55" 4k hdr TV.   The fact I can also buy one game and play it on both systems without having to pay extra, and also sync my stuff between the two systems, is great.

 

I mean heck, a good number of PS4 console exclusives are ending up on the PC, even if they never end up on the Xbox, so by the same logic, why do I need a PS4?   I can play Nier on the PC just as well if I felt like it.   

 

Exactly my thoughts. Play anywhere has been a huge bonus for me. I can play on the big TV in the living room until it's needed by someone else, and then swap out to the office PC and carry on. I'd hate to limit myself to one machine, one room, one display.

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dipsylalapo    956
14 hours ago, George P said:

This idea that you don't have to buy a Xbox if you game on the PC is weird to me,

 

4 minutes ago, MikeChipshop said:

Exactly my thoughts. Play anywhere has been a huge bonus for me. I can play on the big TV in the living room until it's needed by someone else, and then swap out to the office PC and carry on. I'd hate to limit myself to one machine, one room, one display.

Not everyone has the money, space or need for two devices that play games. It's a luxury. 

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MikeChipshop    3,401
5 minutes ago, dipsylalapo said:

 

Not everyone has the money, space or need for two devices that play games. It's a luxury. 

That is why i said "For me". I'm fully aware not everyone can and to be honest my powerful PC is actually my business machine not a separate gaming machine.

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dipsylalapo    956
4 minutes ago, MikeChipshop said:

That is why i said "For me". I'm fully aware not everyone can and to be honest my powerful PC is actually my business machine not a separate gaming machine.

The most I can play on my work machine is Candy Crush :p One of the perks of being self employed ;)

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George P    3,588
2 hours ago, dipsylalapo said:

 

Not everyone has the money, space or need for two devices that play games. It's a luxury. 

If money is the issue, or limiting factor, then you're going to be playing on the console, not the PC, I don't care what most PC master race fans think, PC gaming will always cost you more.

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dipsylalapo    956
8 minutes ago, George P said:

If money is the issue, or limiting factor, then you're going to be playing on the console, not the PC, I don't care what most PC master race fans think, PC gaming will always cost you more.

Yep it'll definitely cost more, but my gaming PC can do more than play games. MikeChipshop uses his for his web dev stuff too. 

 

Anyway, we're moving off topic, we should turn this into the official Scorpio thread. Less than a month until the reveal!

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dwLostCat    1,007
37 minutes ago, dipsylalapo said:

Anyway, we're moving off topic

Well, yes and no.  Play Anywhere is part of the Scorpio offering too if say someone is a multiplatform gamer but their comp is falling behind a bit.  I certainly would've been better off if I'd waited for it, but who knows how long past launch til you can get one if you don't want to deal with the preorder madness.

 

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dipsylalapo    956
22 minutes ago, dwLostCat said:

Well, yes and no.  Play Anywhere is part of the Scorpio offering too if say someone is a multiplatform gamer but their comp is falling behind a bit.  I certainly would've been better off if I'd waited for it, but who knows how long past launch til you can get one if you don't want to deal with the preorder madness.

 

I bought an Xbox One at launch and was a little stung with the dropping of Kinect, the price changes 12 months after launch and the fact that I had to send mine back because it had an issue with the disc drive.

 

I'll need to massively resist the temptation not to pre-order. I still love my Xbox. :p

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George P    3,588
On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 3:49 PM, dipsylalapo said:

I bought an Xbox One at launch and was a little stung with the dropping of Kinect, the price changes 12 months after launch and the fact that I had to send mine back because it had an issue with the disc drive.

 

I'll need to massively resist the temptation not to pre-order. I still love my Xbox. :p

I won't pre-order, but I'll buy it at some point.  Maybe a month or two after it's out, I expect November unless they surprise us and release it sooner, would be a big splash if true and they say at E3 something like, "coming in September!".

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+Asmodai    637
40 minutes ago, George P said:

I won't pre-order, but I'll buy it at some point.  Maybe a month or two after it's out, I expect November unless they surprise us and release it sooner, would be a big splash if true and they say at E3 something like, "coming in September!".

Barring some extremely unlikely and unexpected hardware announcement at E3 from Sony I'll be picking up a Project Scorpio as soon as I see one on a shelf.  I won't pre-order one or stand in line for it but if I see one available I'll grab it.  It will be my first Xbox and my first Ultra HD Blu-Ray player.  That could be right at launch or months later who knows how the supply situation is going to work out.

 

On a side note the same thing is true for the Nitendo Switch.  Unless Sony announces some sort if Vita successor at E3 (HIGHLY unlikley) I'll probably pick up a Nintendo Switch the first time (after E3) I see one on an actual store shelf. (which will make it my first ever Nintendo portable)

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