Deaths confirmed after Manchester Arena blast reports

[FloatingFatMan]

1 hour ago, Euphoria said:

so sad to see this happening in London.. i have a lot friends there, and fortunately none of them were harmed...

Manchester.

 

Dude, children died. At least try to get the location right...

[The Evil Overlord]

38 minutes ago, FunkyMike said:

 

Knowing Duerte and him not being bound by some of the issues we face in the EU, he will manage to clean up the mess in no time however I do not think that this is related.

 

 

Probably not, but a picture was shared on twitter with the assailants waving what looked like is flags...

[Dysphoria]

25 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Manchester.

 

Dude, children died. At least try to get the location right...

What does location have to do with it... unless you are saying that only people from Manchester attended the concert?

[FloatingFatMan]

1 minute ago, Euphoria said:

What does location have to do with it... unless you are saying that only people from Manchester attended the concert?

Because it didn't happen in London. I know you're not used to posting actual facts, but do try to have a little damned respect please. 

 

[Mando]

1 hour ago, The Evil Overlord said:

Corrupted Islam, twisted beyond all recognition. 

Specifically IRA or Sinn Fein?

 

Yes, I'm as outraged as you are, and rage posted on page 2 about it.

both, one may be politial with no offical ties, but we all knew they did have ties, Murdering scum.

[xrobwx71]

9 hours ago, Skiver said:

I don't have the answer, and I'm not saying your wrong but I don't believe meeting violence with violence will solve anything. In fact I suspect all it will do is to add fuel their hate speech about the west and what we've done to them.

 

 

 

 

It has worked.. Historically speaking. Problem is, you have to use more violence than they do, to actually stop it.  It worked in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (I am in no way for more violence or the use of nuclear weapons, just making an observation.)

[The Evil Overlord]

8 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Because it didn't happen in London. I know you're not used to posting actual facts, but do try to have a little damned respect please. 

 

I had to hold my tongue myself about the 200 mile difference.

1 minute ago, xrobwx said:

It has worked.. Historically speaking. Problem is, you have to use more violence than they do, to actually stop it.  It worked in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (I am in no way for more violence or the use of nuclear weapons, just making an observation.)

I did want to mention that, but was too emotionally outraged earlier, to not turn it into a pro nukes rant.

[Mando]

1 hour ago, Euphoria said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know/

Son of Libyan refugees... one more proof that these refugee families with Islamic background are just ticking bombs that can explode tomorrow or 10 years later...

But hey, lets not jump to conclusions because Islamophobia is a serious offense worse than blowing up 20+ girls...

nice ignorant & bigoted response, this has nothing to do with a peaceful religion that is islam, lets take your bigoted view and apply elsewhere, do we blame all Catholics for Hitler and his genocide? After all he was a devout Catholic?

 Or blame all Christians for fundamentalist Christians bombing abortion clinics, demonstrating at Soldiers funerals.....NO

 

Most Lybians escaped persecution from one of their own dictators (in an ex British colony) and were happy countries like the UK welcomed their escape from such a regime. he was born and raised in the UK, he was a British citizen end of, just because his parents were from Libya has zero relevance to this. you cannot or should not tar an entire race because of a single person, thats called generalisation.

 

 

[xrobwx71]

7 minutes ago, Mando said:

nice ignorant & bigoted response, this has nothing to do with a peaceful religion that is islam, lets take your bigoted view and apply elsewhere, do we blame all Catholics for Hitler and his genocide? After all he was a devout Catholic?

 Or blame all Christians for fundamentalist Christians bombing abortion clinics, demonstrating at Soldiers funerals.....NO

 

Most Lybians escaped persecution from one of their own dictators (in an ex British colony) and were happy countries like the UK welcomed their escape from such a regime. he was born and raised in the UK, he was a British citizen end of, just because his parents were from Libya has zero relevance to this. you cannot or should not tar an entire race because of a single person, thats called generalisation.

 

 

The problem lies with variables and math. Neither side of the argument of "who did what", looks at ALL the variables or the math. One of the main variables is the media and the way each one "leans" and distributes "facts". Then, the media consumer is another chaotic variable, in which there are no controls. Then, each consumer has a "lean" and distributes more "facts" with each one thinking their facts are absolute. = Chaos.

Murder, violence, brutality are wrong no matter what label you give it or who did it or for any reason they may give. IMO

If I followed every single tenant in the King James Bible, I'd be dead or in jail. You have to use use common sense even in the Mickey Mouse Club. 

 

My heart, mind and prayers go to the Families of the lost and hurt. 

[Mando]

11 minutes ago, xrobwx said:

The problem lies with variables and math. Neither side of the argument of "who did what", looks at ALL the variables or the math. One of the main variables is the media and the way each one "leans" and distributes "facts". Then, the media consumer is another chaotic variable, in which there are no controls. Then, each consumer has a "lean" and distributes more "facts" with each one thinking their facts are absolute. = Chaos.

Murder, violence, brutality are wrong no matter what label you give it or who did it or for any reason they may give. IMO

If I followed every single tenant in the King James Bible, I'd be dead or in jail. You have to use use common sense even in the Mickey Mouse Club. 

 

My heart, mind and prayers go to the Families of the lost and hurt. 

Nicely said xrob.  maybe he was just a nutjob......

 

oh and one thing that gets me no end, why do the news outlets keep calling Daesh, ISIS, they wish to be known as that, call them what they hate..... Daesh. If it is indeed legit for them to claim responsbility, it shows how desperate those cretins are getting, persecuted in plenty of nations blighted by any activity of theirs, desperate acts of ignorant and subhuman cretins.

 

infact press blackout like the 70s and 80s with the IRA.....although once we heard Mr Adams speak i cracked up, he sounds like an irish mickey mouse on helium  however.....I digress.

 

As i stated before the entire nations on the face of this planet need to do one better, allude to wipe this off the face of the earth, collectively, regardless of beliefs, race, colour, or political ideals.

 

I not only feel deep sorrow for those poor victims and their families (im a peace loving agnostic), but I also feel for Miss Grande, she must feel so terrible knowing fans coming to see her, have been maimed and killed.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Mando

[The Evil Overlord]

46 minutes ago, Mando said:

As i stated before the entire nations on the face of this planet need to do one better, allude to wipe this off the face of the earth, collectively, regardless of beliefs, race, colour, or political ideals.

This is the part where @Skiver, @dipsylalapo and @PsYcHoKiLLa   helped make me see sense before I did end up saying something I would have regretted. I agree with the 'wipe them out' but the problem becomes, who is this 'they' and how can we limit collateral damage, (which in turn would create more of 'them' in the future) 

[deadonthefloor]

Every time a Western bomb drops on another majority muslim nation, another muslim is radicalized.

 

The Obama administration ran out of bombs in 2015

The Obama administration dropped 26,000 bombs on seven majority muslim nations (the same ones in Trump's travel ban) in 2016

Trump's administration has already seen a 3x increase in bombs dropping since he took office.

 

If everyone keeps seeing these lone radicalized individuals as the problem, you're looking in the wrong direction.

They fear the blue skies in muslim nations, for that's when the bombs come.

 

When an innocent child is refugeed to a new nation, their experiences in that nation combined with the world view they form through their own discovery will have an outcome on if they are radicalized.

 

Heck, I just read a story of a neo-nazi turned muslim who murdered his roommate for mocking his religion.

 

At this point, the only real tool we have for de-escalation is MoonshotCVE.

Thanks Google.

[DocM]

2 hours ago, Legendary said:

Guess what Steve Jobs was? the son of a Syrian immigrant.

His sperm donor was Syrian, and his mother was Swiss/German-American, but he was adopted at birth by Paul and Clara Jobs and raised as an American - not a hyphenated-American.

 

My $0.02,

 

These bozos weren't raised as part of their adoptive culture because many of the last 2 decades worth of ME immigrants don't seem to assimilate very well, so why would their kids?  Part of this is that past immigrant populations were isolated from the bad old ways back home and blended into the melting pot, like others before them. Today the internet and easy, fast travel allows them to retain or learn anew their cultures old, bad habits.

 

 

 

[trag3dy]

44 minutes ago, deadonthefloor said:

Every time a Western bomb drops on another majority muslim nation, another muslim is radicalized.

 

The Obama administration ran out of bombs in 2015

The Obama administration dropped 26,000 bombs on seven majority muslim nations (the same ones in Trump's travel ban) in 2016

Trump's administration has already seen a 3x increase in bombs dropping since he took office.

 

If everyone keeps seeing these lone radicalized individuals as the problem, you're looking in the wrong direction.

They fear the blue skies in muslim nations, for that's when the bombs come.

 

When an innocent child is refugeed to a new nation, their experiences in that nation combined with the world view they form through their own discovery will have an outcome on if they are radicalized.

 

Heck, I just read a story of a neo-nazi turned muslim who murdered his roommate for mocking his religion.

 

At this point, the only real tool we have for de-escalation is MoonshotCVE.

Thanks Google.

I can see where you're coming from. It's totally everyone elses fault that this guy decided to strop a bomb to his chest and walk into a crowd full of children and pull the trigger.

[Unobscured Vision]

I'm trying very hard not to let my rage overrun my sensibilities here.

 

I dislike .. despise, really .. anyone who deflects, rationalizes or otherwise attempts to turn things like this upon those who've been targeted. "The Terrorists what they did because it's your fault", for example. I'm gonna call that for what it is: bull####. 

 

Wanna go after military targets in your own country? That's one thing. Targeting civilians, children and teenagers who've got nothing to do with your grievances just because they're "targets of opportunity"? All that does is invoke hatred of your religion as a whole, and prove everyone correct about the notion that it's nothing more than the "breeding ground of suppression and terror".

 

And to those who enable and/or sympathize? YOU'RE NO BETTER THAN THE TERRORISTS. That's right, I said it.

[trag3dy]

2 hours ago, Mando said:

nice ignorant & bigoted response, this has nothing to do with a peaceful religion that is islam, lets take your bigoted view and apply elsewhere, do we blame all Catholics for Hitler and his genocide? After all he was a devout Catholic?

 Or blame all Christians for fundamentalist Christians bombing abortion clinics, demonstrating at Soldiers funerals.....NO

 

Most Lybians escaped persecution from one of their own dictators (in an ex British colony) and were happy countries like the UK welcomed their escape from such a regime. he was born and raised in the UK, he was a British citizen end of, just because his parents were from Libya has zero relevance to this. you cannot or should not tar an entire race because of a single person, thats called generalisation.

 

 

This is a video I like to pull out every time something like this happens and the inevitable "not all muslims" posts start coming out. I would be happy if you could watch it and refute what is being said (and shown):

 

 

"These are general views that every muslim has".

Edited May 23, 2017 by trag3dy

[The Evil Overlord]

5 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

This is a video I like to pull out every time something like this happens and the inevitable "not all muslims" posts start coming out:

 

 

I just watched it, and no one raised their hand when asked if they were extremists, so I don't know what response you were hoping for to be honest, they're raised with different values, yes.  Doesn't mean they can't change to adjust to host nation values. Why they refuse, I cannot answer. Values differ from country to country, every nation will say theirs is best.

[The Evil Overlord]

12 minutes ago, Unobscured Vision said:

I'm trying very hard not to let my rage overrun my sensibilities here.

 

I dislike .. despise, really .. anyone who deflects, rationalizes or otherwise attempts to turn things like this upon those who've been targeted. "The Terrorists what they did because it's your fault", for example. I'm gonna call that for what it is: bull####. 

 

Wanna go after military targets in your own country? That's one thing. Targeting civilians, children and teenagers who've got nothing to do with your grievances just because they're "targets of opportunity"? All that does is invoke hatred of your religion as a whole, and prove everyone correct about the notion that it's nothing more than the "breeding ground of suppression and terror".

 

And to those who enable and/or sympathize? YOU'RE NO BETTER THAN THE TERRORISTS. That's right, I said it.

No one here is sympathising with the act of a murdering scumbag. But if you're blanket covering a religion due to the acts of extremists, then remember they're not the only ones who have killed in the name of religion.

[trag3dy]

4 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said:

I just watched it, and no one raised their hand when asked if they were extremists, so I don't know what response you were hoping for to be honest, they're raised with different values, yes.  Doesn't mean they can't change to adjust to host nation values. Why they refuse, I cannot answer. Values differ from country to country, every nation will say theirs is best.

The point is they agreed that the things he said were general views held by all muslims and not views held by extremists. He said it right at the start of the video.

[game_over]

4 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said:

I just watched it, and no one raised their hand when asked if they were extremists, so I don't know what response you were hoping for to be honest, they're raised with different values, yes.  Doesn't mean they can't change to adjust to host nation values. Why they refuse, I cannot answer. Values differ from country to country, every nation will say theirs is best.

1

I think that's the point.

 

It's not extremism, it's Islam, their views are deep rooted in their faith.

[The Evil Overlord]

Just now, game_over said:

I think that's the point.

 

It's not extremism, it's Islam, their views are deep rooted in their faith.

My point was meant to be, they can be re educated, they can unlearn what they've learned, england in the '40's was very anti black and anti Indian, I like to think the people have evolved somewhat since then, there are differences and underlying problems, sure, but mostly, the people live and let live.

5 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

The point is they agreed that the things he said were general views held by all muslims and not views held by extremists. He said it right at the start of the video.

Don't want to repeat post, please see above response.

[FloatingFatMan]

22 minutes ago, Unobscured Vision said:

All that does is invoke hatred of your religion as a whole, and prove everyone correct about the notion that it's nothing more than the "breeding ground of suppression and terror".

The thing is mate, that's exactly what groups like Daesh want. They WANT people to hate on Muslims, because that pushes more new recruits in their direction.  That's the whole point of these attacks.

[Andre S. Veteran]

2 hours ago, Mando said:

do we blame all Catholics for Hitler and his genocide? After all he was a devout Catholic?

Certainly he was not.

"In light of evidence such as his rejection of the tenets of Christianity as an adolescent,[1] and his strenuous efforts to reduce the influence and independence of Christianity in Germany after he came to power, Hitler's major academic biographers conclude that he was an opponent of Christianity." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

[trag3dy]

6 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said:

My point was meant to be, they can be re educated, they can unlearn what they've learned, england in the '40's was very anti black and anti Indian, I like to think the people have evolved somewhat since then, there are differences and underlying problems, sure, but mostly, the people live and let live.

Don't want to repeat post, please see above response.

So you want to wait another 60-70 years of having your kids blown up at concerts for them to be re-educated?

 

Tolerance is going to be the death of modern society.

[The Evil Overlord]

11 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

So you want to wait another 60-70 years of having your kids blown up at concerts for them to be re-educated?

 

Tolerance is going to be the death of modern society.

Seriously dude?

You're going to bring a hypothetical for my children, I could flip that if I wanted to and let the thread turn into full blown war, I have sided with no one, Tolerance IS the reason we have society, by your thought train which could be seen as equally extreme, should we go back to a time when the nwords were working the cotton fields again?

 

This morning, I was livid with rage, I condemn what has happened, always will, but I certainly will not support, or want to be a part of a system where all that is going to happen is full blown segregation wars