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Rippleman
On 5/23/2017 at 10:10 AM, The Evil Overlord said:

Corrupted Islam, twisted beyond all recognition.

Who decides? You?

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hollowhan
On 5/24/2017 at 1:13 AM, Unobscured Vision said:

I am a Veteran. I served in the Armed Forces. I've seen the ugliness of the Middle East. I have witness the unmitigated cruelty of Islamic Law, at a Familial level. I saw a father treat his daughter as if she were livestock simply because she was female; and this same man attempt to sell her to one of the guys in my Unit. "She will make a good American wife", he said. "You buy her, yes? Five thousand American dollars." I was disgusted that this man held such little regard for his daughter, who couldn't have been more than sixteen -- and he wanted to sell her. They could have easily hired a math tutor for her or something. She didn't know what was going on. She couldn't say no. His WIFE couldn't protest either. It was against their laws that she speak up against her husband. The "Religious Police" would have beaten her with canes if she did. This bearded jackwagon was selling his daughter, and we were NOT allowed to do anything to stop it or interfere with it other than decline the man's ... "business". If she even WAS his daughter. My first impulse, consequences be damned, was to annihilate this pile of garbage where he stood. But I didn't, to my credit. I stood there, shaking with rage, ready to smash this prick to a pulp because he was SO wrong on SO many levels of humanity. What I was witnessing was INHUMAN. It affected me forever, I wasn't the same after that. I was the "live and let live" type before then.

 

This was something that took place before my very eyes. We were only allowed to politely decline so that we didn't offend them or their culture. We were their guests, in their country -- or at least that's what we were told during the Briefing when we landed.

 

And I'm sorry, really sorry, that I lash out against Muslims like I do. I tell the above story so that I can be better understood about why I feel the way I feel concerning Terrorism and people from the Middle East and Northern Africa. I'm sure that the majority of Muslims are peaceful and abhor Terrorism and the selling of daughters like the rest of us do ... but I've seen the negative aspects of the culture firsthand. :( Does that make me racist? Because I think that selling daughters to the highest bidder and beating wives half to death when they speak their minds is completely mental?!

 

All I ask is for understanding and patience. I don't hate Muslims. I don't hate Islam either. I hate what that culture allows. 

 

 

I lived in the Middle East (Dubai) so I know for a fact this goes on there. It's a common thing. However, it's 'their' culture'. Let's just be grateful that we're not there and strive to be the best version of our own selves. Meaning of life right here bud.

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T3X4S
On 5/24/2017 at 1:16 PM, Mockingbird said:

 

 

Anyway, the problem with Islam is not so much the Qur'an as people's interpretation of it.

Not exactly.

Look at it from their point of view.  The Quran is supposed to be the perfect, uneditable, unquestionable word of god.  So much so, they claim that if it isnt in its native language, then it is not the Quran.

So if a book is supposedly perfect, and the words were passed down from Gabriel to an illiterate peasant (however unlikely that is) - then why the many interpretations ?  A supreme deity wrote it, so unclear, that it allows many different interpretations ?  Its nonsense.  

The problem is with people who dedicate their lives by a book which has ZERO proof.  (this applies to all holy books)
People who apply skepticism in other facets of their life, throw incredulity out of the window when it comes to the religion they were brainwashed into.

All questions, all logic, and common sense are tossed out - simply because it promises eternal happiness after their pathetic lives are over.  So when you look at how bad things are over there, its no wonder they are willing to leave this existence so quickly.  A bunch of virgins sounds great compared to a miserable existence in filth and poverty - and that horrible life is only magnified an order of magnitude when you are told you are god's chosen people - and the infidels are living it up over in the west - hell yes they hate us, and want to get the f out as soon as possible - taking some infidels with them only ensures their passage.

The problem, is lack of education - pure and simple.

Is it any wonder  the more educated a person becomes, the less likely they are, to be religious ?
 

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T3X4S
19 hours ago, hollowhan said:

Guys I just don't understand. Why are we forcing our beliefs on other people? Most moderate muslims don't care about Democracy. Most Native ppl don't give two you know what about technology but we labelled them barbaric and destroyed them. Why can't we let ppl live the way they want instead of enforcing our values on others? Why can't we let ppl evolve at their own pace and just mind our own business? Why do we have to throw everyone under the 'humanity' flag? Some ppl need time to get there. Just let them be. Forcing two different cultures to come under one umbrella isn't the way. People are different. It's okay to be different. Why can't we create some strict rules for people from different cultures. They are just different. No need to hate just control them in a respective way. If you can't control them, just give them visit visas. That's it. Keep them at bay. Make better tougher stronger immigration process. Just see what's happening in Canada right now. It's an fn joke.

Because they dont want to just keep to themselves - they (islam) wants to spread across the globe.

Nobody is saying, "leave us alone and we will stay in this pathetic patch of desert" - they are spreading like a virus.

People dont care about visitation visas, they want to infiltrate.  They cant do it by breeding everyone out of existence, because they are inbreeding.  So, its convert or die.

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+Dick Montage
2 hours ago, T3X4S said:

Look at it from their point of view.

No.  I think we have tried that far too much.  Come to a predominantly Christian-influenced country then abide by the local rules, or leave.  "Integration" has become a corrupted into a synonym for bending over, spreading your ass cheeks and letting Islam have its way, and then being criticised for saying thanks in English!

 

I live in Leicester, which is a "correctly integrated" city - we all basically get along, with a large Anglo-Christian, Muslim, Sikh and now Orthodox community.  It is what integration should be, but the left have taken the word and corrupted it into cuckoldry whereby calling a trouble-making immigrant exactly what they are is now racist.

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The Evil Overlord
4 hours ago, Rippleman said:

Who decides? You?

No idea what you're talking about.

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Rippleman

quote by you: "Corrupted Islam, twisted beyond all recognition."

 

How do you know this? Can you prove your claim? Why do you assume religion by default is peaceful? Maybe you are talking all the peaceful sections out of context?

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The Evil Overlord
1 hour ago, Rippleman said:

quote by you: "Corrupted Islam, twisted beyond all recognition."

 

How do you know this? Can you prove your claim? Why do you assume religion by default is peaceful? Maybe you are talking all the peaceful sections out of context?

I never judged it, I interpretted it, therefore need to prove nothing.

Religion for the most part does teach peace, any idiot knows that, it's the extremists the world over, that twist things to suit their poison that makes things bad for everyone else.

 

I am curious though, why single me out? There are others here arguing for and against here...

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Unobscured Vision
5 hours ago, hollowhan said:

I lived in the Middle East (Dubai) so I know for a fact this goes on there. It's a common thing. However, it's 'their' culture'. Let's just be grateful that we're not there and strive to be the best version of our own selves. Meaning of life right here bud.

I appreciate the pat on the shoulder -- but frankly if I were living there they'd kill me where I stood without so much as a "sorry". I'm Transgender and an Atheist. Simply because Western Civilization shows them courtesy and decency does not mean they'll reciprocate in any way. Their religion dictates that people such as myself "convert to Islam or die" -- and believe me, if we were subject to their laws, they'd be killing us by the thousands in the name of Allah.

 

No ... I'd rather not be dead by beheading, thanks.

 

This is one of my arguments against Middle Eastern culture. Their ignorance, brutality and genocidal lack of civility towards others who aren't like them.

 

 

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Rippleman
1 hour ago, The Evil Overlord said:

I never judged it, I interpretted it, therefore need to prove nothing.

Religion for the most part does teach peace, any idiot knows that, it's the extremists the world over, that twist things to suit their poison that makes things bad for everyone else.

 

I am curious though, why single me out? There are others here arguing for and against here...

You made a claim that it is corrupted.  That means you are making a claim to know the truth without error. I was wondering how you know? What if we have religion wrong? Why if it is for bad? The whole idea behind "love me, accept me, or i will torture you forever" begins with threats and blackmail, maybe religion is just simply evil and the peaceful part is just humans way to try to make it bearable?  Point: you can't make the claim that ISIS has it wrong any more then them making the claim you are wrong. 

Didn't single you out, it was just there. Thought I would offer the thread a possible angle not thought of about the people that commit these horrible crimes. They COULD be right and doing EXACTLY what Islam teachings are. They are following the book to the letter. This is why more and more people are starting to see how terrible religion (all religions) is. 

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+Raze

For discussions about religion -

 

Show some respect for the dead and injured and their families and friends,  Take the off topic arguments about religion to the above appropriate thread.

 

TIA

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The Evil Overlord
11 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

You made a claim that it is corrupted.  That means you are making a claim to know the truth without error. I was wondering how you know? What if we have religion wrong? Why if it is for bad? The whole idea behind "love me, accept me, or i will torture you forever" begins with threats and blackmail, maybe religion is just simply evil and the peaceful part is just humans way to try to make it bearable?  Point: you can't make the claim that ISIS has it wrong any more then them making the claim you are wrong. 

Didn't single you out, it was just there. Thought I would offer the thread a possible angle not thought of about the people that commit these horrible crimes. They COULD be right and doing EXACTLY what Islam teachings are. They are following the book to the letter. This is why more and more people are starting to see how terrible religion (all religions) is. 

Depends on how it's interpreted, and who is interpreting it I suppose, on the other hand, a few others have also made very specific claims.......

One thing I can't stand about religion is their religion is right, and everyone else's is wrong

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T3X4S
6 hours ago, Nefarious Trigger said:

No.  I think we have tried that far too much.  Come to a predominantly Christian-influenced country then abide by the local rules, or leave.  "Integration" has become a corrupted into a synonym for bending over, spreading your ass cheeks and letting Islam have its way, and then being criticised for saying thanks in English!

 

I live in Leicester, which is a "correctly integrated" city - we all basically get along, with a large Anglo-Christian, Muslim, Sikh and now Orthodox community.  It is what integration should be, but the left have taken the word and corrupted it into cuckoldry whereby calling a trouble-making immigrant exactly what they are is now racist.

I dont think you read my post.  You took a couple of words out of context.

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Rippleman
1 hour ago, Raze said:

For discussions about religion -

 

Show some respect for the dead and injured and their families and friends,  Take the off topic arguments about religion to the above appropriate thread.

 

TIA

Good thing this is about specifically the reason for this tragedy.  Have some respect for the dead and help solve the issue. Lets help prevent the ones that are coming.

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+Raze
3 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

Good thing this is about specifically the reason for this tragedy.  Have some respect for the dead and help solve the issue. Lets help prevent the ones that are coming.

Nonsense.  You assume too much.  And still off-topic.

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LimeMaster
7 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

Good thing this is about specifically the reason for this tragedy.  Have some respect for the dead and help solve the issue. Lets help prevent the ones that are coming.

Discussing the problems on Neowin will not solve the issue. You can post your opinions for an interesting discussion, but that's about it.

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Rippleman
43 minutes ago, Raze said:

Nonsense.  You assume too much.  And still off-topic.

You trying to say that a radical religious mindset who attacked innocent kids is not what this story is about. I disagree. Time for you to move on since you are off topic. This is about the story, not about what you personally feel about how to discuss this tragedy. Don't like it? Too bad. Talk to mod.

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Rippleman
47 minutes ago, LimeMaster said:

Discussing the problems on Neowin will not solve the issue. You can post your opinions for an interesting discussion, but that's about it.

Same for youtube, same for forums, same for social media... but the more people talk, the more chance people change their opinions on things. In a case like this with this madman, the more people talk about how insane it is, the more people will rethink about how dangerous crazy beliefs are when unchallenged. You are correct, this will not solve the issue, but, there is not a single action that can. 

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+Raze
1 minute ago, Rippleman said:

You trying to say that a radical religious mindset who attacked innocent kids is not what this story is about. I disagree. Time for you to move on since you are off topic. This is about the story, not about what you personally feel about how to discuss this tragedy. Don't like it? Too bad. Talk to mod.

I said or inferred no such thing,  Like I said you assume too much.  The story is about the bombing  and the deaths/injuries as a result.  Now confirmed as a terrorist act.  No more or less.

 

I never said anything about my feelings either.  You have a habit of making up things that were not said. 

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Rippleman
1 minute ago, Raze said:

I said or inferred no such thing,  Like I said you assume too much.  The story is about the bombing  and the deaths/injuries as a result.  Now confirmed as a terrorist act.  No more or less.

 

I never said anything about my feelings either.  You have a habit of making up things that were not said. 

...which was what I was speaking of too, until you derailed this in to your own personal thing as you do with most things that I comment on. You have to stop following me around, it's getting old. I know you want a chat mate, but sorry man, I'm not your guy. It's not personal, it's just not my thing.

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+Raze
4 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

...which was what I was speaking of too, until you derailed this in to your own personal thing as you do with most things that I comment on. You have to stop following me around, it's getting old. I know you want a chat mate, but sorry man, I'm not your guy. It's not personal, it's just not my thing.

OMG, now you're just being extremely ridiculous.

 

My remark about the religion thread had nothing to do with you.  The world doesn't revolve around you.

 

 

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LimeMaster
17 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

Same for youtube, same for forums, same for social media... but the more people talk, the more chance people change their opinions on things. In a case like this with this madman, the more people talk about how insane it is, the more people will rethink about how dangerous crazy beliefs are when unchallenged. You are correct, this will not solve the issue, but, there is not a single action that can. 

There's a difference. Neowin is a small community compared to social media sites like Facebook. Plus, even if idiscussing it here on Neowin did have any impact, it's clear the majority wouldn't be siding with your opinions on the matter.

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Rippleman
Just now, LimeMaster said:

There's a difference. Neowin is a small community compared to social media sites like Facebook. Plus, even if it discussing it here on Neowin did have any impact, it's clear the majority wouldn't be siding with your opinions on the matter.

My opinion on the matter... the influence of supernatural claims made this man do what he did. I am pretty sure virtually EVERYONE sides with me on this.

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LimeMaster
Just now, Rippleman said:

My opinion on the matter... the influence of supernatural claims made this man do what he did. I am pretty sure virtually EVERYONE sides with me on this.

Remind me what your opinions on Islam are?

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Rippleman
Just now, LimeMaster said:

Remind me what your opinions on Islam are?

I did give you my opinion on the story which is what this is about.  Just to be clear, you are now asking a new question now. Are you sure you wish to know? Some one objected to taking this off topic.

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