Mainstream Linux Desktop ?

[Starman]

Well, I found a screenshot of exactly what I'm talking about. Notice how the menus don't line up like they do on Windows and OS X?

If I'm off a little bit, the child menu goes away. I never have this problem on Windows and OS X.

Mike

[[ucw]prophet]

It's like the tops of the submenus never, EVER line up with the parent, so you have to move your mouse down a bit to match it up.  The laptop has an nVidia GeForce 2 in it. It's the first time I ever used Linux on my laptop.

Weird ... I've never heard of that happening either. Have you tried booting from another distro's LiveCD? Here's some recommendations:

SuSE

http://www.suse.com/us/private/download/su...inux/index.html

MandrakeMove

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/mandrakemove/

I'm just curious as to what your experience would be with either one of these two distros. I think both are based off of KDE, but you may want to navigate the Web site a bit further to find out for sure.

[[ucw]prophet]

Well, I found a screenshot ...

Heh, you posted before I could get my last post in.

I may be wrong, but I think that's just the way that KDE handles menus. I'm personally a gnome user so I wasn't aware of the problem that you were describing. I found a screenshot on the gnome web site that shows what the menu looks like in gnome 2.4. It should give you a better idea of how gnome menu works... although it's not the best example I could find.

http://ximian.dulug.duke.edu/screenshots/l...een_desktop.jpg

(Edit: I posted the wrong link before)

(Edit #2: Amazing how hard it is to find a screenshot of the Gnome 2.4 application menu...)

Edited January 21, 2004 by [ucw]prophet

[MrStaticVoid]

Well, I found a screenshot of exactly what I'm talking about. Notice how the menus don't line up like they do on Windows and OS X?

Little things like that don't bother most users, except ones trying to find reasons to hate Linux. The beauty of open-source is that you can contact the developers or change it yourself. The source code is well documented, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard.

[KiwiNZ]

I have been using Linux on and off now for some time, I have used Redhat 7.2 , 7.3 and 9 , Mandrake 9 and Mandrake 9.2 .

I dual boot Windows XP and Mandrake 9.2 currently.

I have used Windows since 3.11 , Windows ( with the exception of ME ) is a sound OS . Yes it has some issues but overall it does the job. XP is a very good OS and is the best that has come out of Redmond.

Linux has come a very long way , is it ready for mainstream use? not yet and I believe its main hurdle for this is , Mary and Bill public will have huge problems installing new software and hardware. They want, insert disk ,click on setup ( or whatever) and thats it .

Until Linux achieves this then its not going to make it in the High Street boxes. Does it have the potential ? most certainly and when it does achieve that we will all benefit from the competition.

More people are experiencing the fun that Linux offers and more and more are experimenting with it, I have converted 5 people this year in my company to at least try dual booting and have some fun with Linux and their feed back is very positive.

I still feel though that Linux is at least 2 years away from having Distributions available that will be able to foot it on the main stage .

But if Mandrake survives , Fedora grows at the pace Open Office has and Suse dosen't get swallowed in the Corporate Maze then yes that 2 year target will be met .

[markwolfe Veteran]

Well, I found a screenshot of exactly what I'm talking about. Notice how the menus don't line up like they do on Windows and OS X?

If I'm off a little bit, the child menu goes away. I never have this problem on Windows and OS X.

https://www.neowin.net/forum/uploads/post-30-1074320427.jpg

Mike

Ok... So you don't like a cosmetic feature that you think is unaesthetic.

Hardly a "bug". If this bothers you, use Gnome, IceWM, Fluxbox, twm,... Or change the code. Or submit a suggestion to kdeorg and request an 'offset adjustment'.

Or, just slag the whole Linux OS for this major systemic problem... :rolleyes:

[Mike Douglas]

well i agree with starman about the menu thing. It made me leave KDE for GNOME. Your always saying how the linux community is ripping off Apple but may I remind you that most of Mac OS X's core is BSD-based and that Apple's philosophy seems to be "Borrow code from open-source projects but give little back"

[JadeWolf324]

Well, I found a screenshot of exactly what I'm talking about. Notice how the menus don't line up like they do on Windows and OS X?

If I'm off a little bit, the child menu goes away. I never have this problem on Windows and OS X.

https://www.neowin.net/forum/uploads/post-30-1074320427.jpg

Mike

thanx for using my screenshot... :pinch:

i rather like the offset..it makes it feel like it flows more.

[markwolfe Veteran]

thanx for using my screenshot... :pinch:

Lucky you, I guess.. :laugh:

[Emon]

prophet,Jan 21 2004, 14:48]

Heh, you posted before I could get my last post in.

I may be wrong, but I think that's just the way that KDE handles menus. I'm personally a gnome user so I wasn't aware of the problem that you were describing. I found a screenshot on the gnome web site that shows what the menu looks like in gnome 2.4. It should give you a better idea of how gnome menu works... although it's not the best example I could find.

http://ximian.dulug.duke.edu/screenshots/l...een_desktop.jpg

(Edit: I posted the wrong link before)

(Edit #2: Amazing how hard it is to find a screenshot of the Gnome 2.4 application menu...)

:blink: ..thats my native language !!!!!

looks weird ... I wouldn't use that interface .. I'll stick to English for now.

http://ximian.dulug.duke.edu/screenshots/l...een_desktop.jpg

[antally]

<Incoherent Rant>

funny this thread popped up because I just decided to give linux another try yesterday. I tried Red Hat and Mandrake a while ago, but I felt that they ran too slow on the PC I was using them on at the time. I decided to try Slackware this time (and on a faster PC with more RAM). The PC I am using is in my bedroom which uses a wireless connection for internet. This is why linux doesn't work right now, I consider myself to be good with Windows and DOS and it's become second nature.

Now there is supposed to be some driver that works with my wireless USB adaptor, but of course it's wasn't that easy. After taking a long time to get Gnome and KDE up and running (hey, it was my first time even touching linux's command line) I finally got the chance to try and install the drivers. After having to research online to find the right commands (not much for built in support) I finally realized I had to have the source of my kernel (and ended up having to recompile it, which all needless to say didn't work) to install the drivers. This is what's broken about Linux, I felt like I was using a program somebody built with themselves in mind, NOT THE USERS! This is the opposite of Windows/OSX which were built with the users in mind. Now, I know I chose the worst Distro for a beginner, but I wanted to throw myself into the deep end :)

</Incoherent Rant>

[[ucw]prophet]

:: Begin Understatement ::

Now, I know I chose the worst Distro for a beginner, but I wanted to throw myself into the deep end

:: End Understatement ::

It doesn't really make sense to use a distro like Slack or Gentoo unless you're completely confortable with how Linux works as an OS. Heck, some of it tends to even be over my head from time to time, and I consider myself to be a Linux power user.

Try Fedora Core 1, SuSE 9.0 or Mandrake 9.2 and see if you still have the same problems. Since you're on a faster machine than your previous experience, you should have better luck this time around.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Sometimes, using a distro like Slack or Gentoo is the best way to learn. It depends on how you, as an individual, learn.

Or, in my case, I have four young boys to raise, so I don't have time to spend learning everything. I installed, ran, use. I pick up things along the way. Sort of the "shallow end of the pool", so to speak. ;)

There are plenty of choices.

[csabo2]

I dual boot with Mandrake 9.2 on this pc with XP. and i have RH9 on my server. and of course sound doesent work on my mandrake install. no one seems to be able to fix it. i have 1 of 3 problems with every distro. no video , no sound, no nic . and it annoys me to no end. If i could get sound nic and video to work. i would be quite happy , i have tried : redhat , mandrake , debian , gentoo , slackware , knoppix . i also tried free / net BSD. none of which i had any luck with. i dont mind compiling..ect i still have spare time to do so. however i dont want to sit on my pc and have no sound. i tried alsa no luck either.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Wow! I can see a NIC or sound or video not working right, but all three??? :o

There is hardware out there that has not released info on how they work, and are therefore difficult to get working outside of Windows ('cause the manufacturer designed it for WIndows). You may have gotten unlucky and have multiple items. :(

Out of curiousity, have you tried Knoppix? If that works, you can copy your config out and it should work with Mandy, RedHat or whatever.

[JadeWolf324]

i have only had 1 problem with linux which was my sound card SBLIVE 5.1..but it was DELLS fault for being OEM version or modified or something...oh well ebay fixed that problem for 15 bucks and now it ran perfectly the first time.

[Tran]

Sometimes, using a distro like Slack or Gentoo is the best way to learn. It depends on how you, as an individual, learn.

Or, in my case, I have four young boys to raise, so I don't have time to spend learning everything. I installed, ran, use. I pick up things along the way. Sort of the "shallow end of the pool", so to speak. ;)

There are plenty of choices.

Amen. Haven't used Linux in a year and the first and last distro I will ever use is Gentoo. Started from Stage 1 and worked up. Great learning experience and (in general) great way to learn about the Linux community if you have a prob.

[JadeWolf324]

i have done that as well and i agree i learned quite alot from that. but really i like staying with MDK over gentoo...just because things work, not that im lazy im just am very busy, at least in my experience i can do just as much if not more in MDK.

[csabo2]

yeah i tried knoppix . where is the config in /ect?

[JadeWolf324]

no its in /etc

typo ;)

[MG-Cloud]

Hey guys :) First off ... sorry for not posting in a while (to my own thread! ack! :D)... homework is a killer.

I don't have much time, but I'd like to say, thanks starman for your response to my post. I really understand your point of view a lot more, and I do agree with a few (but not all) of the things you've been saying. I can't detail em all right now, but I'll just concentrate on a couple of the ones that I can discuss in the shortest amount of time possible :)

First off, your comment about the menu thing... I don't use KDE, so I can't really comment on the mismatched menu thing (although I just realized its actually present in GNOME - I never noticed this before!). I was uanble to duplicate the error you described where the menu disappears after you move your mouse a bit out of it - my mouse is at the opposite corner of the screen from the menu and the menu is still there. Maybe you might want to give gnome a roll? (i'm using 2.4)

Next, in regards to your comment about osx being cheaper than xp pro - true :) Aside from pointing out the obvious (Linux is *free*! j/k ;D), I'll take a leaf out of MS's book and talk about the total cost of ownership... macs are much more expensive than (afaik) comparable pc hardware (although the g5's do look impressive). I do agree with you though in that OSX is something that Linux should aspire towards - they are built on a common foundation and OSX has solved many of the problems that are present in Linux. Let's see what the future holds ..... =)

[Redestium]

I'd really love to see Linux take off big real soon, it just takes one big thing to get the ball rolling.

[rezza Veteran]

Wheeeee, an interesting thread, some good points being made by lots of people.

I just feel I have to jump in here about something which is kinda offtopic:

there are many Windows programs (like MS Office, Windows Media Player, Visual Studio, Internet Explorer, HTML Help! and lots of games and lots of hardware drivers) far superior to Linux alternatives.

Well, maybe you have a point with MS Office and Visual Studio (personally i don't use an office suite, i don't have any need to, and I prefer to use a simple text editor rather than an IDE for coding) and the games thing doesn't bother me too much (i don't game much, and right now the onl game i am playing is neverwinter nights... so no problems there ;) ). But as for WMP and IE and HTML help being better than their GNU counterparts? I beg to differ.

Personally, one of the reasons I made the switch to linux properly (a couple of years ago now) was because of media capabilities. With windows, I was forever having problems with getting videos to play, getting the right codecs, getting overlays to work properly, fiddling with directshow filters, etc. etc. I found this so much easier on Gentoo - everything just worked straight off right "out of the box" (not that there is a "box" with gentoo, but you know what i mean). Mplayer simply works, and works well. It is the most powerful media player I have ever had the pleasure of using, and it can do pretty much anything you want it to. Bad index on an AVI file? no problem, it can reindex it for you. On windows, I'd have to download something like divfix to do this. Sound out of synch? no problem, you can adjust the audio/visual delay on the fly. No media player I ever used in windows was capable of that. And I don't need to worry about getting hold of new versions of codecs, my gentoo update procedure (emerge -u world) automatically takes care of that for me. Also, DVD ripping on linux is a breeze... open up DVD::rip or quickrip, tell it how big to make the resulting file, tell it a codec to use, and away you go!

IE - well, I use Firebird anyway, so I think the OS is a moot point here (you can get firebird for most common OSes). HTML help? My gnome help browser has all the features of html help, and it works pretty well. And anyway, support forums are better help than static html any day of the week :)

About Starman's problem with the menus being misaligned, well I never it's true in GNOME, too, and even more pronounced!

I think it would be slightly better if they lined up properly... but to be honest I've never noticed before, so its not a big deal for me!

And finally, about linux becoming mainstream and easy to use etc in general - personally, the day linux becomes like OSX or XP in terms of support and features is the day I switch to something else, because part of the reason I started using linux originally was to learn how to hack my way around problems. I enjoy doing that kinda stuff, and its not easy to do in a closed proprietary environment. To be brutally honest I couldn't care less whether linux becomes mainstream or not. It doesn't bother me what other people want to use. Each to his/her own.

</long_boring_post>

[Rudy]

the main problem i have with Linux is speed, even on a P4 2.6ghz the applications take forever to load....once they're loaded its fine though........

[Southern Patriot]

Yes it is. Trying to install a MSN messenger client, which would enter the category of things any n00b will want to do first, is a pain in the buthole.

Hmmm, Gaim is installed by default in most distros, and it connects to MSN. What was your point here?