Xbox One X

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MikeChipshop    3,290
17 hours ago, dipsylalapo said:

Ooh do you have links? I've been looking out for a HDR Pro TV around that size. 

I got a pretty decent LG 49" 4K HDR off Amazon for £500, was on sale but they go on sale quite often. Unfortunately, like Skiver, I've had a few unexpected outgoings too so holding off on the console purchase till nearer the ship date.

 

EDIT: Yup, i got the 2017 49" model of what Mando linked too. It constantly goes up and down in price, so watch it for a few weeks and see what happens.

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George P    3,464

I picked up a 55" LG 4k HDR tv back in March for around 900 euros on sale, it's their smartTV version with the cool remote that acts as a mouse pointer on the screen.   

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Andrew    2,682
20 hours ago, WildWayz said:

I agree. I don't think it is the case with the Pro / XOX - but the next major release WILL be 4K 60Hz. It has to be.

The Jaguar chip holds back so much. Changing it to something much more modern will improve things massively. Technology is moving ahead again with cooler / smaller chips etc.

 

I wouldn't be so sure. I think most people, industry and gamers, expected PS4 and X1 to be 1080p on every title as a standard and it didn't even enter many people's minds they'd still be 720.

 

So long as consoles want to be priced for your average consumer, they will never have the hardware to rival PC gaming. Hence why we are stuck with jaguar in these .5 upgrades and lacking real 4k still.

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dipsylalapo    876
3 hours ago, Mando said:

Thanks, that's the one I ended up finding too. With our current living room setup, 43 is as large as we can go. Hopefully our next place will have a little more room :p

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dwLostCat    983
8 hours ago, Andrew said:

I wouldn't be so sure. I think most people, industry and gamers, expected PS4 and X1 to be 1080p on every title as a standard and it didn't even enter many people's minds they'd still be 720.

 

So long as consoles want to be priced for your average consumer, they will never have the hardware to rival PC gaming. Hence why we are stuck with jaguar in these .5 upgrades and lacking real 4k still.

Considering 99.9% of PC builds also lack the capability to do real 4k (and don't have audio and dx12 processing offloaded) I'm rarely seeing where PC gaming is any better, unless you're the type to spend $1200+ on a box or $500 on the GPU.

 

The only remaining reasons for me to do PC gaming post X1X are things that don't have an X1X enhanced version.

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Andrew    2,682
1 minute ago, dwLostCat said:

Considering 99.9% of PC builds also lack the capability to do real 4k (and don't have audio and dx12 processing offloaded) I'm rarely seeing where PC gaming is any better, unless you're the type to spend $1200+ on a box or $500 on the GPU.

 

The only remaining reasons for me to do PC gaming post X1X are things that don't have an X1X enhanced version.

I am :yes:

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dwLostCat    983
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Andrew said:

I am :yes:

I don't even know why I spent so much on my box, considering 95% of what I do with it doesn't need the power at all.  But hey, the X1X wasn't out yet. :)

 

Between the mining craze and the consoles catching up to high end PC gaming I kinda wonder how the PC market will be in a year or two.  Seems like a mess right now.

Edited by dwLostCat

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Vandalsquad    265
13 hours ago, dwLostCat said:

Considering 99.9% of PC builds also lack the capability to do real 4k (and don't have audio and dx12 processing offloaded) I'm rarely seeing where PC gaming is any better, unless you're the type to spend $1200+ on a box or $500 on the GPU.

 

The only remaining reasons for me to do PC gaming post X1X are things that don't have an X1X enhanced version.

This, the PC elitism out there of the continual shouting of this would never do native 4K when it first got revealed was deafening, never mind the 95% of those people could only dream of doing 4K anyway. And here we are, 12 months later with a console pushing native 4K.

 

I refuse to visit the Sonygaf hive mind but my friend linked me to a topic with over 2,000 replies of people trying to pick the smallest differences, and for a $500 buck water cooled unit in this size is a hell of a deal anyway you push it.

 

Next gen we'll see higher spec'd machines again, couple that with being able to insert and play every generation without a worry things are only looking positive for consumers while these companies battle it out.

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George P    3,464

As far as "true" 4k gaming goes, if that means real 4k res, then the X is off to a solid start with a good list of games hitting that res.  If you want 4k and 60fps then sure, some games will, some won't, but then it comes down to what your idea of "true 4k" comes down to.  As far as MS is concerned, true 4k just means hitting the 4k res, the framerate can be whatever at this point, as long as it's not under 30.

 

If they're serious about console hardware going forward after this, then I don't see the next gen not doing 4k@60.  We're talking about 2020, i seriously doubt we're going to get new hardware before then, in 3 years we all know how GPU tech advances, and now CPU tech is finally getting a kick in the butt to the point where we're getting true desktop class CPU cores in mobile packages finally, instead of cut down versions.  The way they optimize these things compared to the default PC brute force approach, console can start to better match the PC at that point.

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Skiver    1,778
14 hours ago, dwLostCat said:

Considering 99.9% of PC builds also lack the capability to do real 4k (and don't have audio and dx12 processing offloaded) I'm rarely seeing where PC gaming is any better, unless you're the type to spend $1200+ on a box or $500 on the GPU.

 

The only remaining reasons for me to do PC gaming post X1X are things that don't have an X1X enhanced version.

The only reason? 

 

You seem to be missing the biggest reason IMO. We are talking about gaming machines here, right? Why (where choice and cost is not a problem) would you not choose PC with it's near endless list of games? Just log into Steam and see the vast array of options and you need not look any further for a reason to choose a PC of a console.

 

Games should always be the focus behind any choice here. Microsoft is actually creating less of a reason to buy their console with their push on Play anywhere, THAT is one of the bigger reasons I've been a console gamer (main reason being I couldn't justify the cost to stay at the higher end of rigs). Halo, Forza and Gears are titles that made me move to Xbox and have kept me a console gamer but that reason is pretty much gone now.

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Andrew    2,682
1 hour ago, Skiver said:

The only reason? 

 

You seem to be missing the biggest reason IMO. We are talking about gaming machines here, right? Why (where choice and cost is not a problem) would you not choose PC with it's near endless list of games? Just log into Steam and see the vast array of options and you need not look any further for a reason to choose a PC of a console.

 

Games should always be the focus behind any choice here. Microsoft is actually creating less of a reason to buy their console with their push on Play anywhere, THAT is one of the bigger reasons I've been a console gamer (main reason being I couldn't justify the cost to stay at the higher end of rigs). Halo, Forza and Gears are titles that made me move to Xbox and have kept me a console gamer but that reason is pretty much gone now.

I concur.

 

PC gaming was in bad shape when the 360 and PS3 came out, but with the growth of Steam et al and now Xbox exclusives no longer staying exclusive to the console, PC is the best platform to own if you want the best of everything. You might have to pay more money for the hardware initiallly, but that hardware will always perform better than the console and last longer (both in terms of life cycle and performance). You also won't have to shell out $500 for a .5 upgrade which will only give you another year or two of life into a dying console. That's before we even get onto the topic of cheaper games / sales / marketplace competition or playing the best versions of games / receiving updates and support.

 

The only thing you miss out on being a PC gamer is Nintendo because their exclusives stay exclusive.

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Vandalsquad    265
3 hours ago, Skiver said:

The only reason? 

 

You seem to be missing the biggest reason IMO. We are talking about gaming machines here, right? Why (where choice and cost is not a problem) would you not choose PC with it's near endless list of games? Just log into Steam and see the vast array of options and you need not look any further for a reason to choose a PC of a console.

 

Games should always be the focus behind any choice here. Microsoft is actually creating less of a reason to buy their console with their push on Play anywhere, THAT is one of the bigger reasons I've been a console gamer (main reason being I couldn't justify the cost to stay at the higher end of rigs). Halo, Forza and Gears are titles that made me move to Xbox and have kept me a console gamer but that reason is pretty much gone now.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

I don't think cost is a problem for any of us who have prepaid for a console months in advance to use solely on 4K theatre systems, gaming means a many different things to everyone. Why wouldn't people choose PC gaming to console gaming even with the larger selection of titles..? To the vast majority of gamers and myself included it's about playing the yearly CoD & FIFA with your mates after work in the comfiest setup possible. Comfiest setup to me = large tv, controller, massive lounge to lay upon.

 

These gamers could easily afford a PC setup but what's the point when they only play 2 games a year? I'm not understating this either, I play a ton of games but I also have friends that won't install anything apart from the yearly FIFA of NBA releases for them, why look any further than the box under the TV that has the best graphics and just works.

 

Think we're getting completely off topic but about a thread mainly for X discussion so I'll leave it at that but :laugh:

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Skiver    1,778
1 hour ago, Vandalsquad said:

Different strokes for different folks.

 

I don't think cost is a problem for any of us who have prepaid for a console months in advance to use solely on 4K theatre systems, gaming means a many different things to everyone. Why wouldn't people choose PC gaming to console gaming even with the larger selection of titles..? To the vast majority of gamers and myself included it's about playing the yearly CoD & FIFA with your mates after work in the comfiest setup possible. Comfiest setup to me = large tv, controller, massive lounge to lay upon.

 

These gamers could easily afford a PC setup but what's the point when they only play 2 games a year? I'm not understating this either, I play a ton of games but I also have friends that won't install anything apart from the yearly FIFA of NBA releases for them, why look any further than the box under the TV that has the best graphics and just works.

 

Think we're getting completely off topic but about a thread mainly for X discussion so I'll leave it at that but :laugh:

I'm not going to disagree with you, but I was replying to a message that effectively talked about graphical quality (4K/60fps etc) being the "only" reason to go for a PC.

 

 

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dwLostCat    983
1 hour ago, Skiver said:

I'm not going to disagree with you, but I was replying to a message that effectively talked about graphical quality (4K/60fps etc) being the "only" reason to go for a PC.

I figured different gaming libraries didn't even need mentioning.  I was talking about user experience, for the vast majority of systems they'd be better off with the console.

 

When I log onto Steam I see a vast array of crap not even worth mentioning.  And how bout all those dx9 games we still get woo.

Edited by dwLostCat

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George P    3,464
1 hour ago, Skiver said:

I'm not going to disagree with you, but I was replying to a message that effectively talked about graphical quality (4K/60fps etc) being the "only" reason to go for a PC.

 

 

There's other reasons, like you said, but at the end of the day more people seem to be fine with just buying a console, plugging it in, installing a game and playing without having to mess with other stuff.  As good as the PC has gotten, steam/GoG etc, you still run into issues, also at this point look at the number of games that end up way buggy on the PC compared to their console versions.  At times I just don't want to deal with that stuff anymore and I game on PC and console, always have.  

 

Lots and lots of people out there are just going to drop $300-$500 on a console and be done with it, and the growth of PC gaming hasn't exactly stopped the decline in PC sales when you look at it, which is why Valve has opened up steam to selling non-games content as well now, they've pretty much hit a high point it looks like and have to find other areas to grow now, also why they've tried hardware a few times to.

 

On the flip side, when it comes to libraries, I like the idea MS is going for, and I think play-anywhere and cross-play are a added bonus to being a Xbox user, note, "xbox user" doesn't mean just the xbox console anymore.  We need to start thinking about Xbox as a service/platform, much in the same way you look at steam.    I like having the option to jump between PC and console and keep my same play-through going and everything synced up.  When you can buy once and play it anywhere then why not?

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dwLostCat    983
3 hours ago, Vandalsquad said:

Think we're getting completely off topic but about a thread mainly for X discussion so I'll leave it at that but :laugh:

IMO it's the first time console gaming has ever encroached upon the quality you can get out of a PC, so it's not really off topic so much as a side topic.

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dwLostCat    983

One thing I'm interested in: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11740/hot-chips-microsoft-xbox-one-x-scorpio-engine-live-blog-930am-pt-430pm-utc

They mention displayport and two stream MST, so is the device capable of multiple displays?  Alternate resolutions?  Not being stuck at 1080p or 4K would be a beautiful thing when these consoles would be better at 1440p than 4K anyway (especially the PS4 Pro, but still.)

 

Unfortunately I doubt they'll talk about that too much before release, but we'll see.

 

As far as I know, the device doesn't actually have a DP port, but I don't know yet.

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Andrew    2,682
6 hours ago, Vandalsquad said:

Comfiest setup to me = large tv, controller, massive lounge to lay upon.

You can do all of that with a PC too. Heck, you can be more portable with PC gaming and the use of a laptop than you'll ever be with an Xbox.

3 hours ago, dwLostCat said:

When I log onto Steam I see a vast array of crap not even worth mentioning.  And how bout all those dx9 games we still get woo.

Why would you want to have some exec telling you what is worth playing and what isn't? Just because a game isn't AAA / costs 100 million, doesn't mean it's not worth playing.

3 hours ago, George P said:

There's other reasons, like you said, but at the end of the day more people seem to be fine with just buying a console, plugging it in, installing a game and playing without having to mess with other stuff.  As good as the PC has gotten, steam/GoG etc, you still run into issues, also at this point look at the number of games that end up way buggy on the PC compared to their console versions.  At times I just don't want to deal with that stuff anymore and I game on PC and console, always have.

 

There is very little you have to mess with in PC gaming and there hasn't for years since Steam automated many of those quirks. Unless you are talking about modding, overclocking or adjusting your hardware to your liking which you can't on console, then it's not even a debate. Buggy games are everywhere, so again, an unfair comparison but at least on PC you don't have to wait for a cert team approving a fix for weeks when it does happen.

3 hours ago, George P said:

Lots and lots of people out there are just going to drop $300-$500 on a console and be done with it, and the growth of PC gaming hasn't exactly stopped the decline in PC sales when you look at it, which is why Valve has opened up steam to selling non-games content as well now, they've pretty much hit a high point it looks like and have to find other areas to grow now, also why they've tried hardware a few times to.

 

PC sales != PC gamers. We know the latter is on the rise and the amount spent by them is ever increasing, and Valve selling other types of content is not a sign of them struggling. Hell, they have all but stopped making the franchises which made them because they don't need to / print money from Steam.

3 hours ago, George P said:

On the flip side, when it comes to libraries, I like the idea MS is going for, and I think play-anywhere and cross-play are a added bonus to being a Xbox user, note, "xbox user" doesn't mean just the xbox console anymore.  We need to start thinking about Xbox as a service/platform, much in the same way you look at steam.    I like having the option to jump between PC and console and keep my same play-through going and everything synced up.  When you can buy once and play it anywhere then why not?

Again, cloud saves are completely possible on PC too, and is also an example of one of those quirks Steam solved for PC gaming long ago.

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dwLostCat    983
6 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Why would you want to have some exec telling you what is worth playing and what isn't? Just because a game isn't AAA / costs 100 million, doesn't mean it's not worth playing.

I don't.  I have all platforms (except Nintendo, but I'd go there if the Switch ever gets back to MSRP.)  I can play things that are or aren't on PC on whatever platform I choose.

 

But as far as worth playing, most of the PC exclusive stuff isn't.  I'm not sure how I became an exec, but OK. *grin*  Sure, I like some visual novels and RPG maker games, but I can't be bothered with MOBAs, MMOs (several of which I could actually play are on modern consoles,) dx9 games, or 99% of indie games.

 

For me, right now PCs HDR and Atmos handling with my current kit are garbage so I'll be taking a long break from PC, most likely.  I'm not buying another screen for a while (especially when a good HDR monitor is still >$600.)

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Andrew    2,682
10 minutes ago, dwLostCat said:

I don't.  I have all platforms (except Nintendo, but I'd go there if the Switch ever gets back to MSRP.)  I can play things that are or aren't on PC on whatever platform I choose.

 

But as far as worth playing, most of the PC exclusive stuff isn't.  I'm not sure how I became an exec, but OK. *grin*  Sure, I like some visual novels and RPG maker games, but I can't be bothered with MOBAs, MMOs (several of which I could actually play are on modern consoles,) dx9 games, or 99% of indie games.

 

For me, right now PCs HDR and Atmos handling with my current kit are garbage so I'll be taking a long break from PC, most likely.  I'm not buying another screen for a while (especially when a good HDR monitor is still >$600.)

I don't mean you are the exec :laugh: I'm talking about those in control at MS, Nintendo & Sony deciding what you can play & what they will allow on their store. If they dislike something, you have no recourse. On PC for example, if Valve doesn't like a game it can still be uploaded elsewhere away from Steam.

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dwLostCat    983
1 hour ago, Andrew said:

I don't mean you are the exec :laugh: I'm talking about those in control at MS, Nintendo & Sony deciding what you can play & what they will allow on their store. If they dislike something, you have no recourse. On PC for example, if Valve doesn't like a game it can still be uploaded elsewhere away from Steam.

Considering some of the stuff Sony is allowing that's genuinely pervy :laugh:

 

Yeah, I get what you mean, but for me the benefits don't outweigh the negatives anymore.  I like how the current consoles are doing things (set a res target and turn HDR on and everything scales up to that.)  I've never played anything in a window and as long as the quality is there I'm not a framerate purist (of course I prefer higher, but 30 hasn't bothered me as much as I thought it would.)

 

If I actually played more competitive games I might feel differently.

Edited by dwLostCat

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Vandalsquad    265
3 hours ago, Andrew said:

I don't mean you are the exec :laugh: I'm talking about those in control at MS, Nintendo & Sony deciding what you can play & what they will allow on their store. If they dislike something, you have no recourse. On PC for example, if Valve doesn't like a game it can still be uploaded elsewhere away from Steam.

Has it's good and bad points... Steam has 90% shovelware now getting greenlit PSN isn't far behind. Selection is great but anything worth playing or our time is usually available across all 3.

 

Outside old PC classics of course. Only thing my PC would get used for RCT, C&C, AoE...

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George P    3,464
11 hours ago, Andrew said:

There is very little you have to mess with in PC gaming and there hasn't for years since Steam automated many of those quirks. Unless you are talking about modding, overclocking or adjusting your hardware to your liking which you can't on console, then it's not even a debate. Buggy games are everywhere, so again, an unfair comparison but at least on PC you don't have to wait for a cert team approving a fix for weeks when it does happen.

No, i'm talking about buggy games period, steam couldn't solve the mess that was Batman arkham knight could it?  And that's not the only game to have been bug ridden from the start.  There's forum posts, on steam, for lots of games, with people who run into some type of issue that you or I might not have for some reason or another.  Steam hasn't solved anything as far as buggy code is considered, and hardware tweaking isn't the root cause of it all.  There's nothing unfair about it, sure bugs are on both sides, and sure maybe they get fixed faster on the PC, but then again you're going to run into more bugs/issues overall on the PC side period compared to a single static console device devs can target.

 

11 hours ago, Andrew said:

PC sales != PC gamers. We know the latter is on the rise and the amount spent by them is ever increasing, and Valve selling other types of content is not a sign of them struggling. Hell, they have all but stopped making the franchises which made them because they don't need to / print money from Steam.

While PC gaming is on the rise, so is console, and even more so, mobile gaming, so you could say gaming in general is on the rise.  The amount spent by them in one of debate though, sure it's higher, but then again, we didn't always have $1,000 graphics cards, or $1,000 CPUs being sold the consumers, or they used to just be out of your average gamers budget.   The average gamer is in their mid 30s now, compared to lower 20s, with time the age has gone up, more of them have jobs and have more money to spend and it doesn't exactly say much when the cost of things is also doubled or tripled because these hardware companies can ask for more.

 

It's also quite telling that the number one factor in video card costs, right now, isn't people buying them to play games, it's people buying them to mine cryptocurrency.  Thanks to that group, card prices have spiked and when you have a gamer who wants that nice new 1080ti, well, now they're going to pay $200 more for it than MSRP.  I also never said valve is struggling, I said they've hit a high point with just games and are looking at other areas to keep growing, let's not mix things up.

11 hours ago, Andrew said:

Again, cloud saves are completely possible on PC too, and is also an example of one of those quirks Steam solved for PC gaming long ago.

I'm quite aware of this, but you're missing my point, I only have 1 gaming PC, not 2 or 3 and I'm not one of those who tries to game on their mid-range laptop either.   Most PC gamers are like me, we drop a lot of money and build one main beat PC for gaming, not multiple ones.   So while cloud saves via steam or GoG is good for when I'm ready to move off of one PC to a new PC 5-6 years from now, that doesn't have anything to do with the times I just want to sit and play on my 55" 4k TV.  PC cloud saves are still just for the PC, one platform, so again, why limit myself just to the PC when I can buy a game once and play it on the PC AND a console sitting in front of my shinny new big screen TV?     And most gamers are not hooking up their PCs to TVs, sorry, it's just not happening, which is why things like steam box and steam link aren't talked about much at all.

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dwLostCat    983
54 minutes ago, George P said:

we didn't always have $1,000 graphics cards, or $1,000 CPUs being sold the consumers, or they used to just be out of your average gamers budget.

or 'free' games that you actually have to spend hundreds on to have a decent experience.  I used to not really care about that but it's gotten old (even though I've only really spent anything on Warframe.)

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