To Prevent Rebellion, Spain Docks Cruise Ship Housing 16,000 Riot Police In Barcelona Port

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FunkyMike    1,622

Efforts by Madrid to stop a Catalonia independence vote, currently slated for October 1st, seem to be growing more hostile by the day.  Earlier this week Spanish police seized control of Catalonia’s finances, seeking to ensure that separatist politicians could not spend further public funds on the referendum, and conducted raids across Catalonia to confiscate ballots and campaign materials from printing shops and delivery companies.

 

Now, as the New York Times notes this morning, Spanish police have detained 14 people during operations conducted yesterday which included the secretary general of economic affairs, Josep Maria Jové.

 

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The Spanish police detained more than a dozen people in the region of Catalonia on Wednesday, drastically escalating tensions between the national government and Catalan separatists. The episode occurred less than two weeks before a highly contentious referendum on independence that the government in Madrid has vowed to block.

 

The police raided the offices of the Catalan regional government early Wednesday and arrested at least 14 people, including Josep Maria Jové, secretary general of economic affairs. The arrests were not expected, but hundreds of mayors and other officials in Catalonia had been warned that they would be indicted if they helped organize a referendum in violation of Spanish law.

 

Hundreds of supporters of Catalan independence immediately took to the streets of Barcelona to protest the arrests. Jordi Sanchez, the leader of one of the region’s biggest separatist associations, used Twitter to urge Catalans to “resist peacefully,” but also to “come out and defend our institutions.”

According to Reuters, the increasingly hostile crackdown by the Spanish police has led Catalan leaders to acknowledge for the first time today that plans to hold a referendum on independence are now in doubt following the arrest of senior regional officials and the seizure of campaign material by national police.

...

 

Meanwhile, as a sign of the growing hostility and Madrid's intentions to do all that is necessary to block a vote, Bloomberg notes that Spain has hired cruise liners specifically to mount a massive force of 16,000 police in a Catalan port.

 

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Spain has discreetly hired ferries to be moored in the Port of Barcelona as temporary housing for possibly thousands of police specially deployed to keep order in rebel Catalonia and help suppress an illegal independence referendum.

 

The country’s interior ministry asked Catalan port authorities to provide a berth for one ship until Oct. 3 -- two days after the planned vote -- saying it was a matter of state, a spokeswoman for the port said by phone Wednesday. The vessel, known as “Rhapsody,” docked in the city about 9:30 a.m. Thursday, she said.

 

The aim is to amass more than 16,000 riot police and other security officers by the Oct. 1 referendum, El Correo newspaper reported on its website. That would exceed the number of Catalan police, the Mossos d’Esquadra, who serve both the Catalan and central governments.

dbb6d60e_5293_4e40_8a3c_8a7b5dd6b8b6.jpg

the Rhapsody of the Sea cruise ship.

 

Still, the Catalan government says it can hold the vote, and recently announced that it had stored about 6,000 ballot boxes in a secret location. “The referendum will be held and is already organized,” Mr. Romeva said. “Clearly the conditions in which it will be celebrated are not those that we wished for.”

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Separatist leaders, however, have accused Mr. Rajoy of plunging Catalonia into a state of emergency rather than negotiating the terms of a referendum.

 

“The issue that is at stake today isn’t the independence — or not — of Catalonia,” Raül Romeva, Catalonia’s foreign affairs chief, told a group of foreign correspondents in Madrid on Wednesday, “but democracy in Spain and the European Union.”

 

Mr. Romeva said that Catalonia would hold the referendum as planned, and that Catalan lawmakers would act to honor the result within 48 hours — meaning they would declare independence unilaterally if people voted for it.

 

“There is no alternative, absolutely no alternative,” he said. “There are only two projects now on the table: a democratic project or repression.”

 

Now,why do we have a feeling that placing a riot police force of 16,000 in a Catalan port, ready to pounce at a moment's notice, will not help reduce the local push for independence... 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-21/spanish-police-mount-force-16000-catalan-port-raid-government-offices-tensions-mount

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ichi    356

This is a chicken and egg problem with no easy solution.

The Spanish government is required by law to stop a secessionist referendum, and it's the judicial branch anyway (not the executive) who is issuing the arrest orders.

 

The illegality of the referendum implies that basically only the pro-independence parties organize and campaign for the whole thing, turning the voting into a biased and non reliable process that's still claimed to be binding for secession (the Catalonian government stating they would beging the separation in 48 hours is the result was "yes"... and surely go over this yet again in a few years if the result was "no", although that part is never mentioned).

 

Doing this properly, legally and with guarantees would require changing the Constitution, which would need a level of agreement between parties that as of now seems to be impossible.

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TPreston    5,387

The Russian bots on this site love succession unless its in Russia where such talk is more than frowned upon.

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ichi    356
15 minutes ago, TPreston said:

The Russian bots on this site love succession unless its in Russia where such talk is more than frowned upon.

I can't say I blame them: foreign secessionist movements have a romantic freedom-fighting underdog appeal that can entice people to root for them without even bothering looking at details like who, how and why.

 

Radical pro-secession groups capitalize on that, just look at all the rethoric regarding "fascism" when addressing anything and anyone that doesn't agree with their plans.

 

I think it's telling, though, that the kind of liberals that you would expect to side with the pro-independentists (ie. left-wing actors and musicians) are openly positioning themselves against this referendum.

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+ctebah    2,846
On 9/28/2017 at 3:10 AM, TPreston said:

The Russian bots on this site love succession unless its in Russia where such talk is more than frowned upon.

Why not offer something on the subject, rather than calling a member namesÉ

2 minutes ago, FunkyMike said:

The Spanish government does not want this to go ahead under any circumstances, and the rest of the EU countries are find with this crackdown.  Successions are very contagious, once one happens, the rest start.  

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FunkyMike    1,622
3 minutes ago, ctebah said:

Why not offer something on the subject, rather than calling a member namesÉ

5 minutes ago, FunkyMike said:

he might find it hard .. not like he ever has anything useful to say.

 

3 minutes ago, ctebah said:

The Spanish government does not want this to go ahead under any circumstances, and the rest of the EU countries are find with this crackdown.  Successions are very contagious, once one happens, the rest start.  

It is a total mess. There is the Spanish Civil Guard fighting the Catalonian Police. Little kids being dragged away. People getting beaten up.

 

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Update (12:30 pm ET): Clashes between riot police and voters in Barcelona and other towns and cities across Catalonia have left hundreds injured as police beat peaceful demonstrators with sticks and fired rubber bullets into crowds. The clashes, which have been well-documented by journalists and members of the public, are resulting in a massive public embarassment for the government in Madrid, as photos of elderly Catalonian pensioners with blood streaming down their faces have flooded the internet.

 

According to the Catalonian health ministry, 465 people have been injured during today's demonstrations, including at least nine local police officers and three Civil Guard officers. Here's a breakdown via the Guardian: 216 were hurt in Barcelona, 80 in Girona, 64 in Lleida, 53 in Terres de l’Ebre, 27 in Catalunya central and 25 in Tarragona.

 

Despite the crackdown, the Guardian reports that the majority of polling stations in the province have remained open. Spanish national police have closed down 46 in total (27 in Barcelona, six in Tarragona, six in Girona and seven in Lleida). The Guardia Civil have closed another 46 (14 in Barcelona, 12 in Tarragona, eight in Girona and 12 in Lleida). Catalan police, the Mossos, say they have closed 244 polling stations across Catalonia. In total, 336 polling stations have been shuttered. To put this in context, the Catalan government said more than 2,000 polling stations were set up across the province for the referendum. Meanwhile, the Spanish government said that three people, including one girl, have been arrested for civil disobedience and attacking officers.

 

The shocking photos have provoked widespread condemnation. In the UK, Labour Party Leader Jeremy Corbyn urged Prime Minister Theresa May to urge Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy to end the crackdown.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-01/fascism-shocking-footage-spanish-police-shooting-rubber-bullets-brutally-beating-pea

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TPreston    5,387
10 minutes ago, ctebah said:

Why not offer something on the subject, rather than calling a member namesÉ

Tell me how talk of succession would go down in mother Russia ?. Do as I say not as I do, Glass houses stones...

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+ctebah    2,846
6 minutes ago, TPreston said:

Tell me how talk of succession would go down in mother Russia ?. Do as I say not as I do, Glass houses stones...

What does that have to do with the topic?

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Ryoken    933

The whole thing is ######ed up imho.

Canada's had our issues with it before, with Quebec. Sure we meet violent movements with force (ask Trudeau's father), but we still let them have their peaceful votes too. If your only response to a democratic vote (that may not have any Legal value at the end of the day to begin with) is to send in riot police, you're not helping.  All it does is more move and move people against you.

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FunkyMike    1,622

Spanish PM Rajoy Blasts Catalans' "Mockery Of Democracy", Says Spain "Responded With Firmness, Calm" Injuring 761 People

 

 

Update: With the injury count now at 761, according to El Mundo, here are the headlines from Rajoy's address as he bagen: Catalonia's unauthorized independence referendum "is a mockery of the very essence of democracy," Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy says.

 

Speaking from the Palace of Moncloa, his official residence in Madrid, Rajoy said "there has been no referendum of self-determination in Catalonia today".

----

 

But images of Sunday’s crackdown tested that backing...

 

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“It’s a huge PR disaster for the Spanish government. It’s hard to justify the police beating up people,” said Angel Talavera, an analyst at Oxford Economics in London.

 

“We are going to see the secessionists start to try to win more international support. They will present the events as evidence for their thesis that they are up against a repressive regime.”

Political leaders were joined by celebrities.

 

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“Violence can never be the answer!” Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michelsaid on Twitter. “We condemn all forms of violence and reaffirm our call for political dialogue.”

 

U.K. Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn tweeted that “police violence against citizens in Catalonia is shocking. The Spanish government must act to end it now.”

 

Harry Potter author J.K. Rowlingtold her 12.7 million Twitter followers that the violent images were “repugnant and unjustifiable.”

 

Former Barcelona FC captain and Spanish national soccer team player Xavi Hernandez said it was “unacceptable that in a democratic country the people cannot vote.”

 

 

Remember, as we noted yesterday that "if Catalonia secedes from Spain...in terms of the debt sustainability parameters laid down by the Treaty of Maastricht, it’d be the Eurozone debt crisis 2.0..."

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-01/watch-live-spanish-prime-minister-rajoy-explains-why-his-police-force-beating-peacef#comments

 

 

 

 

 

 

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TPreston    5,387
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ctebah said:

What does that have to do with the topic?

What does Americas past have to do with the other topics? You correctly point out hypocrisy in these threads all I'm doing is pointing out yours.

 

You know if this were in Russia the streets would run red with blood and you would be defending it saying it was an American conspiracy. You know that don't you.

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+ctebah    2,846
Just now, TPreston said:

What does Americas past have to do with the other topics? You correctly point out hypocrisy in these threads all I'm doing is pointing out yours.

Sure, I have brought up Americas past in other threads where it is directly involved in a thread.  But never did I come into a thread and post something completely irrelevant and stupid while calling the OP a bot.

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+ctebah    2,846
4 minutes ago, TPreston said:

You know if this were in Russia the streets would run red with blood and you would be defending it saying it was an American conspiracy. You know that don't you.

Many peaceful protests happening in Russia without the streets running red with blood.   What a stupid thing to say.

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+Mirumir    5,226

 

Spoiler

Since someone's asked...

 

Re: talk of succession (sic) in mother Russia

 

1) Until a few years ago, various foreign-sponsored NGO's were busy infiltrating the Russian academia in Siberia and Russia's Far East trying to promote various independence movements in Yakutiya, Buryatiya, Tatarstan, and elsewhere. This practice has been specifically banned since then along with any activity aimed at carrying out a regime change op in Russia because we already have a bloody history of foreign-sponsored regime changes (1917) and recent attempts (2011-2013) at it. (NB: No rubber bullets or tear-gas were used to disperse those dissatisfied crowds during the 2011-2013 protests).

2) The Chechen Independence movement was an Al-Qaeda op, similarly to what's happened in Syria. (The Mujahideens, Al-Qaeda, ISIS - is all the same, all is based on Wahhabi Islam).

3) No one in Crimea wants to go back to Ukraine. 

4) Russia has been losing territory for one hundred years now. Russia is now smaller than the Soviet Union was before it, which, in its own turn, was smaller than the Russian Empire was at its height just before the WWI.

5) The victims of the anti-Russian propaganda are quite easy to spot.

6) Is there any similarity here between the Russian history and the Catalan history? The only thing I can think of trying to compare and contrast these is that the Crimeans were actually given a chance to vote only to find their vote be ignored by "the international community", whereas the Catalonians are not being given such an opportunity at all.

 

 

 

 

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TPreston    5,387
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, ctebah said:

Many peaceful protests happening in Russia without the streets running red with blood.   What a stupid thing to say.

About Succession ? No thought not. Its laughable to see the crocodile tears about this when we all know if the same thing happened in Russia it would be a bloodbath, Not only that but id bet my house that the same people in this thread crying fascism would be defending the governments actions and saying the whole thing was a conspiracy.

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+ctebah    2,846
3 minutes ago, TPreston said:

About Succession ? No thought not. Its laughable to see the crocodile tears about this when we all know if the same thing happened in Russia it would be a bloodbath, Not only that but id bet my house that the same people in this thread crying fascism would be defending the governments actions and saying the whole thing was a conspiracy.

Nope.  Wrong again.  Another pathetic attempt at derailing a topic with hypothetical scenarios.  Have you ever brought anything valuable to a discussion?

 

In case you did not realize this yet, this topic is about the Catalan referendum.  

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FunkyMike    1,622

Update (4:15 pm ET): As promised, Barcelona FC played its season opening against Las Palmas to an empty stadium to protest the brutal actions of the Spanish government. In a statement released earlier, the team said it had asked the Professional Football League to postpone the game because of today's referendum, but it had refused.

 

Polls across the region have now closed, but because many of the region's centralized voting systems have been cut off by Spanish authorities, the regional government hasn't been able to provide estimates for turnout. Counting the votes could take time. However, the Catalan government has said it would declare independence within 48 hours should the vote be in favor of leaving.

 

...Meanwhile, the number injured in today's unrest has climbed above 750.

 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-01/fascism-shocking-footage-spanish-police-shooting-rubber-bullets-brutally-beating-pea

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+ctebah    2,846
14 minutes ago, FunkyMike said:

 

...Meanwhile, the number injured in today's unrest has climbed above 750.

 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-01/fascism-shocking-footage-spanish-police-shooting-rubber-bullets-brutally-beating-pea

There was a video of firefighters trying to stand in-between the protesters and the police and being beaten.  There were also calls on the PM to resign, as he should.  The Kurdish referendum was more peaceful and that is very embarrassing.  

 

FC Barcelona said they were threatened a 6 point deduction if they did not play today.

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FunkyMike    1,622

 

 

 

 

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+ctebah    2,846
1 minute ago, FunkyMike said:

 

 

 

 

Don't these police understand that we live in an extremely connected world and everything they do gets posted on social media?

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FunkyMike    1,622
10 minutes ago, ctebah said:

Don't these police understand that we live in an extremely connected world and everything they do gets posted on social media?

Depends .. some of them don't seem too sharp..

 

 

 

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ichi    356

The Catalonian government got exactly what they wanted: pictures of police repression.

 

They have been playing this victim game for years, taking advantage of the desire for independence of part of the Catalonian population.

Thing is, they have pretty much no political program beyond independence, so they are equally screwed both if independence is achieved or if people lose interest. So they just fuel the fire, placing the Catalonians on the anvil while provoking the Spanish government to use the hammer, all while inciting hate against the central Government in particular and the whole of Spain in general, and brainwashing kids with a distorted version of history.

 

This referendum is just a farce, but the Spanish government fell for it.

 

They should have just let the voting happen, and then if necessary arrest the members of the Catalonian government for secession as soon as they tried to act on an hypothetically positive result.

 

The only single thing they have achieved by using force against the population is giving validity to the independentist propaganda.

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ichi    356
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FunkyMike said:

 

 

 

 

The first picture is fake, it's from 2012.

There are a few other fake pictures being spread around, which is rather stupid because there's plenty of people that have actually been injured today.

Edited by ichi

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FunkyMike    1,622
Posted (edited)

The Results Are In: 89% Of Catalans Vote For Independence

 

 

Update (6:30 pm ET): In further proof that Spain's brutal crackdown on today's Catalan independence referendum only helped bolster the seccessionist cause, the regional government announced that voters had overwhelmingly voted in favor of independence, with 89% voting to separate from Spain. 

 

The regional government has promised to officially declare independence within 48 hours.

Even though Spanish authorities ruled that the vote was illegal, Dimitrij Rupel, head of the International Parliamentary delegation on Catalonia’s referendum, said at a news conference in Barcelona on Sunday that the referendum on independence was prepared in agreement with Spanish existing legislation, potentially setting up the regional government for a legal battle.

 

In a speech earlier this evening, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, who tried to suppress the vote by jailing public officials, shutting down electronic voting systems, ordering police to manually destroy ballots and seal off polling places, declared that no referendum had taken place.

 

All eyes now turn to Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont as tensions between Spain and its restive state are expected to come to a head, as the prospect of intensifying street violence looms.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-01/fascism-shocking-footage-spanish-police-shooting-rubber-bullets-brutally-beating-pea

 

 

Of Catalonia’s 5.34 million voters, this represents a turnout of around 42.3 percent, excluding those whose ballots were confiscated and people who were prevented from voting by police.

 

The massive police crackdown “prevented” an estimated 770,000 people from voting, Catalan government board member Turull said during the vote result announcement.

Turull said out of the 844 people that suffered injuries from police brutality during the vote, 74 have already filed official complaints.

 

https://www.rt.com/news/405303-catalonia-independence-referendum-results/

 

Edited by FunkyMike
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