It's Official: Russia And The US Will Work Together on The First-Ever Moon Station


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+Mirumir

"While some may still debate whether the world is in the midst of another Cold War, the Space Race, at least, does not look set for a redux. In fact, Russia and the U.S. have just agreed to work together on building the moon's first space station."

 

"There are no borders in space." :D 

 

It's Official: Russia And The US Will Work Together on The First-Ever Moon Station

 

Russia and US will cooperate to build moon's first space station

 

NASA and Roscosmos to study Deep Space Gateway

 

NASA and Russia Partner Up for Crewed Deep-Space Missions

 

 

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+Mirumir

"Crewed Deep-Space Missions" :woot:

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Unobscured Vision

Bout time. :yes: 

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DocM

(Superb) Russian space writer Anatoly Zak of russianspaceweb.com publushed a good article on the Planetary Society site a few months ago. The preparation for this took quite some time, including meetings with the various ISS partners.

 

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2017/20170309-nasa-iss-partners-cislunar-station.html

 

RSW: http://www.russianspaceweb.com

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  • 4 months later...
Beittil

Wouldn't surprise me if ESA soon jumps in on the bandwagon as well. 

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The Evil Overlord
Just now, Beittil said:

Wouldn't surprise me if ESA soon jumps in on the bandwagon as well. 

Well if it indeed turns out to be a good venture, why not..?

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DocM

There's much going on with the US side coming to terms with using commercial operators for habitats, cargo and personnel delivery.  Look for a Cislunar COTS program sooner than later, with SpaceX, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, OrbitalATK, Bigelow Aerospace and Sierra Nevada in the mix.

 

There have also been hints from VP Mike Pence's Chief of Staff that Falcon Heavy could figure prominently, the US VP also chairing the National Space Council.

 

SpaceX's BFR & BFS are also lunar-capable, needing only to fuel up in LEO to do a direct lunar landing and return to Earth. We now know the factories will be in San Pedro California and at KSC, and that NASA and the US Dept. of Transportation have taken notice of its broad capabilities.

 

The Russian side is also spinning up with the new Soyuz family in development, and the Federation spacecraft well along.

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DocM

There's much going on with the US side coming to terms with using commercial operators for habitats, cargo and personnel delivery.  Look for a Cislunar COTS program sooner than later, with SpaceX, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, OrbitalATK, Bigelow Aerospace and Sierra Nevada in the mix.

 

There have also been hints from VP Mike Pence's Chief of Staff that Falcon Heavy could figure prominently, the US VP also chairing the National Space Council.

 

SpaceX's BFR & BFS are also lunar-capable, needing only to fuel up in LEO to do a direct lunar landing and return to Earth. We now know the factories will be in San Pedro California and at KSC, and that NASA and the US Dept. of Transportation have taken notice of its broad capabilities.

 

The Russian side is also spinning up with the new Soyuz 5 family in development, which includes a heavy lifter, and the Federation spacecraft well along. Also some interesting new habitat modules.

 

Japan and ESA have many items to contribute, with JAXA, ESA, Thales, Ariane, etc. well along.

 

China could contribute heavy lift if their Long March 5 Y2 could be made to behave, very likely - they're good and getting better, and Ukraine is developing a commercial heavy lifter named Crypton.

 

That's a wealth of riches..

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Unobscured Vision

I agree completely with the article above. There needs to be commonality with all segments, components and parts. No mismatches, adapters, none of those things which will only complicate matters or reduce the efficiency of the systems or the components.

 

The power grid is a different matter entirely -- but by then we get into another barrel of fish that I'm just not in the mood to deal with right now. :laugh: Let's leave it at "I wouldn't use 120/240 on the main bus for any reason".

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The Evil Overlord
7 minutes ago, Unobscured Vision said:

The power grid is a different matter entirely -- but by then we get into another barrel of fish that I'm just not in the mood to deal with right now. :laugh: Let's leave it at "I wouldn't use 120/240 on the main bus for any reason".

Actually, that's an easy fix, the biggest investor into the program can dictate the power requirements. Plus most nations already have power blueprints for every other nation, that and switchable power supply units.

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DocM
6 hours ago, Riva said:

Oh did the americans get over their "our new space station will be bigger" statements? :D

Actually, a single BFS Spaceship in Earth or lunar orbit will be configurable to have 40+ cabins, a command deck, cargo deck, public spaces deck   with a galley, a life support system good for about 100 people, etc.

 

A single Bigelow station module could be from 330 m3 to 2,200 m3, the latter more than 2x the size of ISS.  

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  • 2 months later...
DocM

 

The nuts and bolts of a US Cis-Lunar commercial services  program for the Gateway is already underway in NextSTEP 2,  Connercial Crew and Commercial Resupply Services 2 with more coming. SpaceX's ginormous BFS spaceship should also be there.

 

Russias new Soyuz 5 launcher and Federation crew vehicle should be ready by then, as should a Soyuz 5 based heavy lift launcher.

 

http://m.aviationweek.com/space-symposium/russia-wants-lunar-gateway-be-global-project

Quote

Russia Wants Lunar Gateway To Be Global Project

COLORADO SPRINGS—The International Space Station (ISS) partnership should take on the development and operation of NASA’s planned Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway as part of an expanded, multilateral approach to space exploration and development, Sergei Krikalev, director of human spaceflight for the Russian space agency Roscosmos, said April 18.


NASA intends to build the gateway beginning with the 2022 launch of a power and propulsion module. The outpost is intended to serve as a staging platform for human sorties to the lunar surface and a base to assemble spacecraft for eventual journeys to Mars.

Roscosmos proposes to add a research module to the gateway and fly crews there using a superheavy-lift rocket and manned spaceship.

"We see this new international initiative as a sequel of the International Space Station program to be built under the same principles ... as an international project without the primacy or the priority of one of the participating partners," Krikalev said at the 34th Space Symposium here.

>

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Unobscured Vision

:yes: In spades.

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DocM

This Axiom Space  proposal from former ISS managers and tech people has evolved a bit in the last year or so, particularly the radiator/solar module and the use of a module based on Cygnus, and parts of it are being considered for the LOP-Gateway station.

 

(Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway)

 

It's possible something like this + a Bigelow module could make up much of the Gateway.

 

3D model for browsers

 

https://sketchfab.com/models/45cb595ccdd8406ebd040d97c58e354a/embed


5ae2a2b083487_AxiomSpace800-4.thumb.jpg.f74459666988f9101c5fb49514cec3a4.jpg

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Unobscured Vision

- The arrangement/design of the Solar Array is horrible. Completely over-complicated and impractical, lacking in redundancy and far too large of a footprint for too little gain;

- Not to mention that the Solar Array in the "sunflower" configuration renders the top attachment node permanently unuseable;

- And why is the long axis of the proposed Station covered in curved PV's? All this serves to do is introduce an inefficiency;

- Using Cygnus and Bigelow habs would be fine, but I'm not seeing anything here that really makes full use of Bigelow's advantages;

 

And that's just glancing at the above image.

 

I cannot believe for one moment that this configuration is in the running as-is. That SA section alone is terrible and too complicated. I'd hope they would seriously vet this and make changes. What's wrong with structural girders and 90-degree long panels? The efficiency is through the roof now, and they can mount the radiators (and lots of other external gear) to 'em. So what if girders are "dumb" -- they work.

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DocM

I'm no fan of those turkey's tail segmented arrays either. 

 

ISTM,

 

conformal arrays can serve a dual purpose in that they generate power while minimizing solar heating by blocking the sun from the underlaying habitat. The trick is the insulation (aerogel?) or using a standoff mount.

 

In the case of Crew Dragon/Dragon 2 a conformal array is used to  eliminate a failure mode (failed deployment), and to eliminate orbital debris (the covers.) Any excess heat gets dumped by radiators on the other side of the Trunk, along heat from the capsule.

Edited by DocM
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  • 3 months later...
DocM

Anatoly Zak of RussianSpaceWeb is reporting the European Space Agency (ESA) and Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) are considering SpaceX's Falcon Heavy for their large LOP-G payloads. Falcon Heavy can toss about 20,000kg to a trans-lunar injection (TLI) while still recovering the boosters.

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Mindovermaster

Long reply, DocM... :laugh:

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Unobscured Vision

It's a running thread. :yes: Updates as they come in ... sometimes those updates are few and far between.

 

Unlike what seems to be happening on the Tesla Megathread, which has been hijacked by anarchist enablers who hate anyone with money or who display any kind of success acumen. Seems like those people would be fans of Elon like the rest of us are. Electric Cars, Reusable Rockets, trying to help the world go renewable, etc. etc. ....

 

But then again those folks don't really logic -- or care what reality is.

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Mindovermaster

"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century. The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." -Picard

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Unobscured Vision

A discussion for another time and another thread. :) 

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Mindovermaster

J/S...

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DocM
1 hour ago, Mindovermaster said:

"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century. -Picard

 

Gold-pressed latinum

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  • 2 weeks later...
DocM

The ISS partner's Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway configuration as of July 5, 2018.

 

lunar_orbital_platform-gateway_config_July-05-2018-2048.thumb.jpg.976d66e4f0c5ef8f9fec3881a32ef2bd.jpg

 

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