America’s Long History of Warfare

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+ctebah    2,747
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If you go to the Wikipedia page that gives a timeline of U.S. foreign military operations between 1775 and 2010, you are likely to come away in shock. It seems that ever since the founding of the country, the United States has been at war. It is as if Americans just could not (and still cannot) sit still, but had to (and still have to) force themselves on others through military action.

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Often this is aimed at controlling foreign resources, thus forcing upon others the consequences of their own capitalist avarice. At other times the violence is spurred on by an ideology that confuses U.S. interests with civilization and freedom. Only very rarely is Washington out there on the side of the angels. Regardless, the bottom line seems to be that peace has never been a deeply ingrained cultural value for the citizens of the United States. As pertains to foreign policy, America’s national culture is a war culture.

It is against this historical backdrop that the recent Ken Burns 18-hour-long documentary on the Vietnam War comes off as superficial. There is a subtle suggestion that while those American leaders who initiated and escalated the war were certainly deceptive, murderously stubborn and even self-deluded, they were so in what they considered to be a good cause. They wanted to stop the spread of Communism at a time when the Cold War defined almost all of foreign policy, and if that meant denying the Vietnamese the right of national unification, so be it. The Burns documentary is a visual demonstration of the fact that such a strategy could not work. Nonetheless, American leaders, both civilian and military, could not let go.

What the Burns documentary does not tell us – and it is this that makes the work superficial – is that none of this was new. Almost all preceding American violence abroad had been rationalized by the same or related set of excuses that kept the Vietnam slaughter going: the Revolutionary War was about “liberty,” the genocidal wars against the Native Americans were about spreading “civilization,” the wars against Mexico and Spain were about spreading “freedom,” and once capitalism became officially synonymous with freedom, the dozens of bloody incursions into Central and South America also became about our “right” to carry on “free enterprise.” As time went by, when Washington wasn’t spreading “freedom,” it was defending it. And so it goes, round and round.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/10/08/americas-long-history-of-warfare/

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Circaflex    2,965

Your obsession with America is downright laughable. 

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techbeck    5,008
Just now, Circaflex said:

Your obsession with America is downright laughable. 

(Y)

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+ctebah    2,747
4 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

Your obsession with America is downright laughable. 

I know, if only more Americans were so obsessed about bettering their own country....

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Nefarious Trigger    6,821

Russia is a peaceful nation.  It has always been this way.

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+Mando    3,382

why did i realise the OP before clickng....the rhetoric is tired and old , oh and people in glass houses......

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+ctebah    2,747

I know, I know, truth hurts...

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+Zag L.    304

Interesting... seems looking at the military history of the UK and to a lesser extant France and China we can make the same comment. So just what conclusions are we supposed to make here. Throughout human history, mankind has been founded on conquest.  

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techbeck    5,008
1 hour ago, Mando said:

why did i realise the OP before clickng....the rhetoric is tired and old , oh and people in glass houses......

What do you expect from comments saying the world would be better off if the US blew itself up and the US is the cause of evil in the world. Nice knowing a fellow member here is ok of millions of people are killed. 

 

US has issue but so do a lot of other countries. But the US can do no right. Gotta love it. 

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+Mando    3,382
1 minute ago, techbeck said:

What do you expect from comments saying the world would be better off if the US blew itself up and the US is the cause of evil in the world. Nice knowing a fellow member here is ok of millions of people are killed. 

 

US has issue but so do a lot of other countries. But the US can do no right. Gotta love it. 

dunno mate, blocked him months ago. ;) 

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+FloatingFatMan    13,187
11 hours ago, ctebah said:

I know, I know, truth hurts...

Last time I checked, the USA doesn't have a Road of Bones... :p

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+Zagadka    1,789
Just now, FloatingFatMan said:

Last time I checked, the USA doesn't have a Road of Bones... :p

Just a Trail of Tears.

 

Don't know of any real nation-states that could project power not project power. They're all aggressive in defending their positions and, eventually, gaining more.

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+FloatingFatMan    13,187
10 hours ago, techbeck said:

What do you expect from comments saying the world would be better off if the US blew itself up and the US is the cause of evil in the world. Nice knowing a fellow member here is ok of millions of people are killed. 

 

US has issue but so do a lot of other countries. But the US can do no right. Gotta love it. 

The US isn't perfect, but at least it doesn't have the blood of millions of it's own innocent citizens on its hands, unlike Russia...

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+Mirumir    5,158
13 hours ago, Zag L. said:

Interesting... seems looking at the military history of the UK and to a lesser extant France and China we can make the same comment. So just what conclusions are we supposed to make here. Throughout human history, mankind has been founded on conquest.  

That the imperialism is engraved in the Western European culture (starting with the Roman Empire obviously). And that these days it is hiding under the mask of promotion of democracy, fighting dictatorships and various other responsibilities to protect that result in millions of deaths (just counting the period since the end of the Cold War).

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+Mirumir    5,158
1 hour ago, FloatingFatMan said:

The US isn't perfect, but at least it doesn't have the blood of millions of it's own innocent citizens on its hands, unlike Russia...

From your statement, I can conclude that:

 

1) The value of a human life differs depending on who does the killing (an external aggressor vs an internal dictator);

2) You have digested the anti-Russian propaganda quite well. I assure you, a lot less Russians became the victims of the Stalin's repressions (the 1917 revolution in itself was a product of the West's meddling in Russia's affairs) compared to the number of victims of the British Imperialism literally all over the world.

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Brys    1,294

hahaha "long" history ? They have like, less than 500 years of existence. The US is, like, baby country playing at being an adult. "long" ! hah...

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+Mirumir    5,158
17 minutes ago, Brys said:

hahaha "long" history ? They have like, less than 500 years of existence. The US is, like, baby country playing at being an adult. "long" ! hah...

Can you name any other country that's barely had a year of peace since its inception? I suggest you also take a look here for some additional food for thought.

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+Mirumir    5,158

The real kicker is that after all that's been said and done, an American populist (Obama, Trump, McCain, Clinton, some other weirdo or a journalist, doesn't really matter) can still go out and say, with a straight face and to a shower of applause, things like: "the American leadership has been good for the World!"

 

/curtain

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+FloatingFatMan    13,187
1 hour ago, Mirumir said:

From your statement, I can conclude that:

 

1) The value of a human life differs depending on who does the killing (an external aggressor vs an internal dictator);

2) You have digested the anti-Russian propaganda quite well. I assure you, a lot less Russians became the victims of the Stalin's repressions (the 1917 revolution in itself was a product of the West's meddling in Russia's affairs) compared to the number of victims of the British Imperialism literally all over the world.

1) And? This is often the case, worldwide, for ALL nations.

2) Prove it.

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+Mando    3,382

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+Mirumir    5,158
1 hour ago, FloatingFatMan said:

2) Prove it.

Uncountable human lives lost due to slavery and conflicts with indigenous people in North America, Australia and elsewhere.

 

I say uncountable because no one really counted the non-whites.

 

Nevertheless, it is estimated that in India alone 45+ million died during the British rule there in various famines. This example alone is prove to twice as many as those died in the Soviet Union because of the Stalin's purges and the famine.

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+FloatingFatMan    13,187
38 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

Uncountable human lives lost due to slavery and conflicts with indigenous people in North America, Australia and elsewhere.

 

I say uncountable because no one really counted the non-whites.

 

Nevertheless, it is estimated that in India alone 45+ million died during the British rule there in various famines. This alone is easily twice as many as those died in the Soviet Union because of to the Stalin's purges and the famine.

So, no proof at all then, didn't think so.  As usual, you're just throwing mud to distract people from Russia's own crimes, and fooling nobody in the process.

 

As for the famines, are you seriously blaming British rule on the environmental problems causing crop failure? Riiiight... If we had THAT sort of power, we'd still have the Empire.

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+Mirumir    5,158
1 minute ago, FloatingFatMan said:

So, no proof at all then, didn't think so. 

One of the articles I've stumbled upon today begins with: 

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We are still a nation locked in denial. If you point out basic facts about the British Empire - that the British deliberately adopted policies that caused as many as 29 million Indians to starve to death in the late 19th century, say - you smack into a wall of incomprehension and rage.

Johann Hari: The truth? Our empire killed millions

British Empire Killed More People than Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Hitler or Stalin

 

It's now your turn to attack the source and continue to stay in denial.

 

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+FloatingFatMan    13,187
4 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

One of the articles I've stumbled upon today begins with: 

Johann Hari: The truth? Our empire killed millions

British Empire Killed More People than Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Hitler or Stalin

 

It's now your turn to attack the source and continue to stay in denial.

 

The second one I'll ignore as coming from an Indian anti-British source and therefore clearly has an agenda. The first will require study, but seeing as many historians reject it, historians far more qualified to judge than I (I can't stand the subject of History, personally), then I don't know whether the articles claims have merit or not.

 

However, it's irrelevant.  This thread started out by pointing out the mud on America's shoes when it comes to conflict etc, and I pointed out that Russia is no better, and in fact, far worse, than America is. Bringing Britains' crimes into it is just an attempt at deflection, and doesn't alter a damned thing.  I never said we'd been perfect angels in our past.

 

Does America engage in a lot of conflict? Yes.  So does Russia, and as I said, at least America hasn't decided to murder a few million of it's own people just for holding a different political opinion, or the wrong religion.

 

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Yogurth    1,410
13 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

 

Does America engage in a lot of conflict? Yes.  So does Russia, and as I said, at least America hasn't decided to murder a few million of it's own people just for holding a different political opinion, or the wrong religion.

 

2

I wonder how You missed the genocide of indigenous US inhabitants the native Americans by the US and several other countries like Spain and Portugal? They had a different religion, different views on life, different politics...am I missing something?

 

Here is a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples

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