Just seen Doom3 Trailer...


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His engines were always one step ahead of the others, from the technical innovation point of view. And the guy can code extremely efficiently, it's really scary.

No doubt he is good at what he does, however, I don't know about D3 being efficiently coded. It takes a monster of a machine to run that game at decent fraterates whereas HL2's source has alot of detail in the form of textures and mathematically complex equations for physics, HDR, dynamic shadows, etc. Yet it runs on a 9500 Pro at 60 fps. I understand D3 has more complex dynamic lighting and shadows but still, 20 fps on the same card. :pinch:

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agree with everything you have said, the guy is a genious, but I dont agree with that statement, the first engine that implemented it was the source engine, used in games like duke nukem 3d and blood

Uh.. that was the Build engine, actually, programmed by Ken Silverman. And Build was the first engine that implemented... what?

Side scrolling? By side scrolling I meant, you know, Mario on the nintendo, and stuff. That kind of side scrolling. Carmack was the first to program it on the PC. (By PC i mean, x86 hardware and DOS.) Yes. That goes a long time ago. Anyone remembers Dangerous Dave?

And no matter how you look at it, Duke Nukem 3D came out after Quake. I don't remember when Blood came out, but I remember it being the Build engine with a few added particularities, such as pseudo sector over sector. Just like Shadow Warrior -- only shadow warrior had them see through.

No doubt he is good at what he does, however, I don't know about D3 being efficiently coded. It takes a monster of a machine to run that game at decent fraterates whereas HL2's source has alot of detail in the form of textures and mathematically complex equations for physics, HDR, dynamic shadows, etc. Yet it runs on a 9500 Pro at 60 fps. I understand D3 has more complex dynamic lighting and shadows but still, 20 fps on the same card.

You _do_ have a point there. Technically, the Source engine has this very particular strong point -- it scales.

However, Doom 3 is not completed yet. I do remember running the leaked alpha at around 8fps, 1024x760. But the dynamic lightning IS awesome.

Hmm. Your point is very well put. However we yet have to see how the final version will run -- one thing i've learned is that Carmack likes his stuff to run fast. So maybe he'll come up with last minute optimisations. However, the Source engine sounds very promising as well. Ergh.

I guess in any case we are just rambling around, only future will tell. We can only speculate ;)

edit: Grammatical mistake scarred my eyes when reading my post again. Ugh.

Edited by mr_da3m0n
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OK, here are some official benchmarks for Doom 3, dated back to March last year

taken from here.

It was done with ID and NVIDIA's assistance (which was said to bring all the conspiracy theorists out of the closet :rolleyes:)

The benchmarkers were allowed to use whatever cards they wished, so they used a GeForceFX5900 Ultra, a GeForceFX 5600 Ultra, a Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB, a Radeon 9600 Pro, and also a 9500 Pro.

The test system was an Intel Pentium 4 3.0GHz "C" - 800MHz FSB CPU, ASUS P4C800 mainboard (i875 Canterwood chipset), 1GB Corsair XMS 3200LL (Dual Channel configuration - 2x512MB), Koolance Exos water cooling system, Vantec 550w PSU, WindowsXP SP1, DirectX9A.

The drivers used were NVIDIA DetonatorFX v44.03, ATI Catalyst v3.4 & v3.2. (at the time, the latest ones)

1052729768FyFQIMpRcj_1_3.gif

Unfortunately, the Catalyst 3.4 driver seemed broken in this benchmark, so they resorted back to Catalyst 3.2 (which they were told only had the ability to access 128MB of Ram on the 9800-256 Radeon. They considered this, and decided that the missing 128MB of RAM did not impact the scores, but should be taken into account.

1052729768FyFQIMpRcj_2_1.gif

Now we are seeing more predictable results. Even with the Radeon's in a crippled state every card tested produced reasonable results. The lowest the frames dropped to was 17.9 at 4xaa and 8xaf, but the same card managed 35.2 with 0xaa and 0xaf.

1052729768FyFQIMpRcj_2_2.gif

At higher framerates, we are seeing that the engine of that time was more favouring the NVIDIA, but this may have been mostly attributed to the driver issues.

1052729768FyFQIMpRcj_2_3.gif

Now at this uber-high resolution we are still seeing nice framerates.

If you want something to compare performance too...they go on to say:

Obviously, the performance above is surprising...in two ways. We were not expecting such high frame rates from our NVIDIA hardware. It looks as though we are not going to be where we were when Unreal first came out and if you broke 25FPS at 640x480 resolution
Also, for the NVIDIA vs ATI buffs.
The other thing that is surprising about our frame rates is the obvious gap between the 5900 Ultra and the 9800 Pro-256. You have to wonder if this is due to a simple driver issue at this point in the game. It is very possible that ATI simply did not have their public Catalyst 3.2 tweaked to deliver for DOOM 3. On the other hand, the folks at NVIDIA will tell you flat out, "The NV35 was built to play DOOM."

A good bottom line on the article

Bottom line is this; whoever has the fatest video card with image quality to match when DOOM 3 hits retail shelves "wins".

I like this benchmark, it managed to remain impartial to both Graphics card companies. I wish I could have found a more recent benchmark, I am interested to see how the Radeon XT's handle this game....I also wish they had have included some older hardware, I'm gonna be relying on my GF4 Ti4800 for a while yet.

Valve Software, THIS IS HOW YOU DO A BENCHMARK YOU STUPID $%@!!!!1111 :D

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Keep in mind id and nvidia work closely together and as a result i'm sure nvidia made optimizations specifically for D3 when ATI didn't get a chance. Especially considering this benchmark was made possible by nvidia. No one ever said the FX series of cards provided bad OGL performance either, which is what D3 utilizes, not HL2.

Valve Software, THIS IS HOW YOU DO A BENCHMARK YOU STUPID $%@!!!!1111

lol :sleep:

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Keep in mind id and nvidia work closely together and as a result i'm sure nvidia made optimizations specifically for D3 when ATI didn't get a chance. Especially considering this benchmark was made possible by nvidia. No one ever said the FX series of cards provided bad OGL performance either, which is what D3 utilizes, not HL2.

lol :sleep:

don't add your nvidia vs ati conspiracy crap to this thread.

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Ok boys. That's enough. Any further and I'll have to get out my mod bat. And you don't me to get out that bat. It's metal. And stings.

And that would be Bad , the discussion was getting interesting.

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The LAN I went to this weeked, I didn't convince anyone to play that Quake I mod with the stencil shadows and per pixel lighting (tenebrae).....so I can't really comment on how much difference they'll make to a gameplay experience (well, at least not comment from experience). Everyone was too busy playing Counter strike (grrr :crazy: )

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Please explain the bold part.

Everyone knows that Half Life 2 will have a better physics engine. The AI is alot smarter in HL2, trust me from what I saw at E3 on Doom3 the AI lacks. In some cases you could stand ten feet away with the flash light in the zombies eyes and he just stand there and breath and not attack you, theny ou could shoot him, and he would still not move.

In HL2 the AI will "strategically" advance.

Plus the ragdoll effect is alot better in HL2, cause when you shoot a zombie in Doom3 they...well kinda just fall on their back like an Ironing Board. But thats just from my expirence of the E3 showing of Doom3, and seeing my friend's downloaded copy of the "HL2 Beta".

Just my two cents though.

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Everyone knows that Half Life 2 will have a better physics engine. The AI is alot smarter in HL2, trust me from what I saw at E3 on Doom3 the AI lacks. In some cases you could stand ten feet away with the flash light in the zombies eyes and he just stand there and breath and not attack you, theny ou could shoot him, and he would still not move.

However, you're judging code that's almost a year old. They've probably made some big strides with the AI code lately. At the very least, I wouldn't imagine they would just let it be in that condition.

Plus the ragdoll effect is alot better in HL2, cause when you shoot a zombie in Doom3 they...well kinda just fall on their back like an Ironing Board.  But thats just from my expirence of the E3 showing of Doom3, and seeing my friend's downloaded copy of the "HL2 Beta".

Yeah, I didn't exactly like the ragdoll effects of either game. HL2's just felt *too* limp, and Doom3's were too stiff. I think my favorite effect is actually FarCry's. They've got the stiffness of a dead body down :D

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but still u got to think how far they have come by now, waiting this long they should have fixed all that and fine tuned it, (or they better in hl2 case)

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In some cases you could stand ten feet away with the flash light in the zombies eyes and he just stand there and breath and not attack you, theny ou could shoot him, and he would still not move.

Perhaps in that case it could be that the zombie might be blind and might not sense the flashlight at all. As for shooting it and it still not moving, that specific zombie might be having problems with it's nervous system with motor functions not working....? I hope all zombies aren't that zoned out, and I doubt they all are.

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Perhaps in that case it could be that the zombie might be blind and might not sense the flashlight at all. As for shooting it and it still not moving, that specific zombie might be having problems with it's nervous system with motor functions not working....? I hope all zombies aren't that zoned out, and I doubt they all are.

I agree with this man...

I tested this on the zombie I have chained up in my backyard and it was blinded by a flashlight and didn't respond upon been shot. :p

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