Democracy is dead in the EU! Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont has fled the country amid rebellion charges

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Euphoria    664

Ousted Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont has left Spain and travelled to Brussels.

The move comes after Belgium's asylum and migration affairs minister Theo Francken said the former president could seek asylum in the country.

Same independence that Kosovo voted for and was approved by EU and most of the world, now is being declined by Spain and EU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-leader-carles-puigdemont-left-spain-brussels-rebellion-charges-eu-independence-latest-a8027366.html

 

Quote

On October 1, 2017, millions of Catalans voted in a referendum, with the large majority of voters supporting independence. That same day, violence unfolded as the government in Madrid tried to stop the vote from happening.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/10/catalan-president-carles-puigdemont-171001122719197.html

 

 

 

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+Mirumir    5,226

There was no popular vote taking place at all in Kosovo.

 

A bunch of MPs just came together and declared independence.

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Co-ords    172

Democracy is an illusion to keep us worker drones in place...

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Draconian Guppy    12,640

so, spanish senate by whatever means, voted NO. how is this NOT a democracy?  Local referendum, must obviously go to higher powers...

32 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

There was no popular vote taking place at all in Kosovo.

 

A bunch of MPs just came together and declared independence.

yup.

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zikalify    184

If you actually believed the West was democratic before, hopefully this episode has shown that you aren't living in a democracy. What you've got is an illusion of democracy. You've got a cardboard cut out of a Tesla. ;)

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+Mirumir    5,226

 

 

On 10/31/2017 at 10:52 PM, zikalify said:

If you actually believed the West was democratic before, hopefully this episode has shown that you aren't living in a democracy. What you've got is an illusion of democracy. You've got a cardboard cut out of a Tesla. ;)

 

(Direct) Democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Would you really want to live in such a state?

 

For it to work effectively and efficiently, you need a small geographic area featuring universal standards of living and a relatively homogeneous population characterized by having little inequalities (Iceland, Switzerland).

 

Which is why we have a representative democracy which comes with its own perks, the most infamous of all is a blatant conflict of interests between MPs and their electors.

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+FloatingFatMan    13,399
19 hours ago, Mirumir said:

Which is why we have a representative democracy which comes with its own perks, the most infamous of all is a blatant conflict of interests between MPs and their electors.

Whatever its flaws may be, at least we're not living in a country with even MORE illusions of democracy like Russia, where somehow it's always Putin running the show, whether he's president or prime minister...

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+Mirumir    5,226
4 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Whatever its flaws may be, at least we're not living in a country with even MORE illusions of democracy like Russia, where somehow it's always Putin running the show, whether he's president or prime minister...

I didn't know we had a contest about who lived in the most democratic country. Thanks for letting us all know!

 

You too enjoy your illusion of democracy living in a state with a hereditary power transfer.

 

 

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+FloatingFatMan    13,399
3 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

I didn't know we had a contest about who lived in the most democratic country. Thanks for letting us all know!

 

You too enjoy your illusion of democracy living in a state with hereditary power transfer.

 

 

What a surprise. Quick to criticize other people's democratic rule, but don't like it when it's tossed back in your face.

 

Also, the royals have no actual political power; they're figureheads only. Their primary job in the UK is one of PR with other nations.

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+Mirumir    5,226
4 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

The royals have no actual political power; they're figureheads only.

They have lots of it

Edited by Jim K

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+FloatingFatMan    13,399
4 hours ago, Mirumir said:

They have lots of it

Nope. Wrong. I know exactly what powers the royals do and do not have, and also what would happen if they tried to actually exercise them.  Effectively, their powers are zero as to try to govern would result in their removal.

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+Mirumir    5,226
1 minute ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Nope. Wrong. I know exactly what powers the royals do and do not have, and also what would happen if they tried to actually exercise them.  Effectively, their powers are zero as to try to govern would result in their removal.

They are exercising their powers everyday being the heads of the state, your sovereign and you being their subjects. You aren't even a citizen lol.

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+FloatingFatMan    13,399
4 hours ago, Mirumir said:

They are exercising their powers everyday being the heads of the state, your sovereign and you being their subjects. You aren't even a citizen lol.

Continue to deflect all you like. It doesn't alter the facts. WE can change our government; you can't. You think you're free, but you're still under the control of a communist who refuses to relinquish power and just switches titles every few years instead.

Edited by dipsylalapo
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+JR1966    516
On 11/1/2017 at 6:52 AM, zikalify said:

If you actually believed the West was democratic before, hopefully this episode has shown that you aren't living in a democracy. What you've got is an illusion of democracy. You've got a cardboard cut out of a Tesla. ;)

Absolutely...Democracy or Capitalism, pick one as you can't have both.

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+JR1966    516
4 hours ago, Mirumir said:

They have lots of it

Sorry, you're incorrect. I live under the Commonwealth and Britain's Queen is my Queen. As FFM stated, she is a figurehead only and plays no part in Australia's political affairs.

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+Mirumir    5,226
14 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

WE can change our government;

Short of a revolution, you can't change your head of state. And I don't see them giving up their powers voluntarily.

Quote

you can't

Yes I can. I live in a republic, not a monarchy.

Quote

 You think you're free, 

I don't think I am, I know I am free. I pay much less in income taxes, property taxes, and utilities than you do too. I'm debt free as well.

 

Cheers!

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+FloatingFatMan    13,399
Just now, Mirumir said:

I don't think I am, I know I am free. I pay much less in income taxes, property taxes, and utilities than you do too. I'm debt free as well.

 

That has nothing to do with freedom.  Come back and tell me you're free when Putin is no longer running the place.

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+Mirumir    5,226
5 minutes ago, JR1966 said:

Sorry, you're incorrect. I live under the Commonwealth and Britain's Queen is my Queen. As FFM stated, she is a figurehead only and plays no part in Australia's political affairs.

And I am a Canadian citizen.

1 minute ago, FloatingFatMan said:

That has nothing to do with freedom.  Come back and tell me you're free when Putin is no longer running the place.

Why would I want Putin to leave?

 

He's lifted the country from the ruins.

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+FloatingFatMan    13,399
7 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

Short of a revolution, you can't change your head of state. And I don't see them giving up their powers voluntarily.

Head of state is just a label, nothing more. What limited powers she has are nothing compared to those who actually run the country, and attempting to use them would be the end of the royals.  The queen acts, very wisely, in an advisory capacity only.

6 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

Why would I want Putin to leave?

 

He's lifted the country from the ruins.

Why would I want the Royals to leave? They're what make the UK stand out in the world, and are a core part of our rich cultural heritage that we almost universally approve of.

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Godflesh    124

I got the impression seeing this unfold in the news that what they attempted was not abiding by the existing rules.

And yeah the powers that be didn't want it because it's the valuable part of town but still.

If there is an existing legal framework to separate then it has to be respected.

You can;t just thumb your nose up at it and scream democracy.

 

I recall the old days here where i live when there was talk of Quebec separating.

Fine with me i thought just bring part of the debt with you and buy your own war planes etc.

I was looking forward to having only English written on everything.. tired of seeing french all over.

It's silly seeing a Highway sign that has the info written twice.. when a small minority speak French here.

Also insulting when they have laws stipulating ONLY French can be on sign sin towns where the rest of the country has to bend over backwards accommodating  them.

Anyway nothing became of it here in Canada.. too bad i think my cereal box would have English on it.

I wouldn't have to keep flipping the food item around searching all over for the English version of the info.

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+Mirumir    5,226

Because Spain is a constitutional monarchy too, I think this is relevant.

 

13 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Head of state is just a label, nothing more. What limited powers she has are nothing compared to those who actually run the country, and attempting to use them would be the end of the royals.  The queen acts, very wisely, in an advisory capacity only.

No, it's not just a label. It's a job function with its own duties and responsibilities. She exercises her powers every time she appoints or approves of some candidacy somewhere (a colonial Governor General or a board member of a Crown Corporation).

 

 

 

 

 

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+FloatingFatMan    13,399
19 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

Because Spain is a constitutional monarchy too, I think this is relevant.

 

No, it's not just a label. It's a job function with its own duties and responsibilities. She exercises her powers every time she appoints or approves of some candidacy somewhere (a colonial Governor General or a board member of a Crown Corporation).

You truly just don't understand.

 

That "approval" is nothing but a formality and has no actual weight in reality.  The various nations that accept her as their head of state, such as Australia or Canada, are free to appoint whoever they like and could just ignore getting her approval if they wanted to. 

 

Again, it's nothing but frippery.

 

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+Mirumir    5,226
52 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

You truly just don't understand.

 

That "approval" is nothing but a formality and has no actual weight in reality.  The various nations that accept her as their head of state, such as Australia or Canada, are free to appoint whoever they like and could just ignore getting her approval if they wanted to. 

 

Again, it's nothing but frippery.

 

I understand just fine. Thank you.

 

The British Monarchy has built a system aimed at protecting their own assets and their own butts. After several centuries in power, they have a truly unique expertise in this field.

 

It'll be interesting to watch what would happen in the future if an incident occurs where a due process is not followed if, for example, like you've said, Canada or Australia ignore Her Majesty's decision. Will need a large bowl of popcorn ready for such an event.

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Nefarious Trigger    6,988
6 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

I understand just fine. Thank you.

 

The British Monarchy has built a system aimed at protecting their own assets and their own butts. After several centuries in power, they have a truly unique expertise in this field.

 

It'll be interesting to watch what would happen in the future if an incident occurs where a due process is not followed if, for example, like you've said, Canada or Australia ignore Her Majesty's decision.

LOL, failure to understand the absolute lack of power that the monarchy has in this situation, and how this process is a pantomime formality.  

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+JR1966    516
9 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

I understand just fine. Thank you.

 

The British Monarchy has built a system aimed at protecting their own assets and their own butts. After several centuries in power, they have a truly unique expertise in this field.

 

It'll be interesting to watch what would happen in the future if an incident occurs where a due process is not followed if, for example, like you've said, Canada or Australia ignore Her Majesty's decision. Will need a large bowl of popcorn ready for such an event.

Nothing would happen if Australia ignored a decision by our Queen. Do you know why...because the Queen doesn't make such decisions. I fail to comprehend why you are having trouble in understanding this. 

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