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Truck attack in NYC

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shockz    6,102
18 minutes ago, primortal said:

Looks like the driver was, “radicalized domestically” while living in the United States (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-truck-attacker-planned-for-weeks-and-carried-out-rampage-in-the-name-of-isis-officials-say/ar-AAuj5TF?ocid=spartanntp).

 

So even if his immigration was merit based, it still wouldn't have stop this tragic event.

Don't let facts get in the way of tossing the political football of diversity visas into the end zone.

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techbeck    6,940
2 minutes ago, Zagadka said:

I agree on principle. But we have the situation we got ourselves into. Aside from changing behavior to avoid similar situations in the future, we need to find several realistic steps to address what we have without losing too much of what we are.

Not to mention it is not only the US where these attacks are happening.  All over the world.

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Zagadka    4,093
2 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Not to mention it is not only the US where these attacks are happening.  All over the world.

That is a good point. I've seen Americans be pretty... nasty regarding the bombings in Somalia, in recent times. It is a really confusing conflict, because there aren't two sides... there are dozens, spread everywhere. It is kinda a nightmare scenario. We don't seem to understand how we have to change policies.

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ctebah    3,161
6 minutes ago, Zagadka said:

we need to find several realistic steps to address what we have without losing too much of what we are.

1. Stop illegally bombing other countries and creating terrorists.

2. Stop arming and supporting terrorists.

3. Stop supporting allies that do #1 and #2.

 

There you go.  Very simple and realistic and you'll see these attacks stop.  If you want proof, look to other countries that aren't doing #1 and #2.

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+Red King    2,466
4 hours ago, DConnell said:

Reprehensible as the guy's actions were, he's still entitled to due process.

Yes but at large cost of tax payers. That's my issue.

 

1 hour ago, primortal said:

Looks like the driver was, “radicalized domestically” while living in the United States (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-truck-attacker-planned-for-weeks-and-carried-out-rampage-in-the-name-of-isis-officials-say/ar-AAuj5TF?ocid=spartanntp).

 

So even if his immigration was merit based, it still wouldn't have stop this tragic event.

He is a "legal permanent resident of the United States who arrived in the country from Uzbekistan in 2010 through a diversity visa program"

He is from an Islamic nation and was allowed in because of whatever a diversity visa program is. 

 

You need to hold compatible beliefs to be radicalized in the first place. We are talking about people who go from moderate to stabbing over eating bacon.

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+primortal    12,633
44 minutes ago, J. X. Maxwell said:

You need to hold compatible beliefs to be radicalized in the first place.

Not necessarily.

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Euphoria    2,046
1 hour ago, shockz said:

Don't let facts get in the way of tossing the political football of diversity visas into the end zone.

Same as the Boston marathon bomber... immigrated to the US and unable to integrate into the society resorts to hurting people... but don't let the facts get in the way...

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shockz    6,102
38 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Same as the Boston marathon bomber... immigrated to the US and unable to integrate into the society resorts to hurting people... but don't let the facts get in the way...

And? Tons of other people immigrate to the US and live in society just fine, not to mention the current proposed travel ban that has been struck numerous times wouldn't have stopped this from happening. The logic and irony astounds me... won't talk about gun control when a white, US citizen shoots up Las Vegas, but when one immigrant kills 8 people, we immediately have you guys talk about immigration control and outright bans.

Edited by shockz
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DocM    16,615
2 hours ago, shockz said:

And? Tons of other people immigrate to the US and live in society just fine, not to mention the current proposed travel ban that has been struck numerous times wouldn't have stopped this from happening. 

The US Supreme Court turned down the last case fighting  the first travel ban. 

 

An updated travel ban is now in place, with more cases against it heading to the Supreme Court. It's unlikely they will succeed either.

 

This is because Congress and the President have what's known as Plenary Powers** over immigration granted to them in the Constitution. The courts do not.

 

To enable this, Congress long ago passed a law saying that the President can exclude any group, at any time, for any reason, for any period of time. Nearly every modern president has used this exclusionary power.

 

** a plenary power is an absolute power granted to a body or person, with no review or limitations to its exercise. 

 

The problem here is that some, usually liberal, lower court judges haven't gotten the message. 

 

Quote

 

Thelogic and irony astounds me... won't talk about gun control when a white, US citizen shoots up Las Vegas, but when one immigrant kills 8 people, we immediately have you guys talk about immigration control and outright bans.

 

When the immigration system fails we have a right and responsibility to correct it. 

 

In this particular case we have someone brought in under one of Sen. Ted Kennedy's special projects who, several years ago, was in contact with two suspected terrorists - one of which is still on the run. Under Obama, DHS interviewed him and gave him a pass. This was clearly a mistake.

 

Not only that, but another terrorist came in under this same program - that being the guy who shot up LAX in 2002 killing 2 people and wounding 4 more. 

 

"Houston, we have a problem."

 

Most of those killed in New York were from Argentina, and one was from Belgium

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/argentine-belgium-tourists-dead-manhattan-attack-article-1.3602815

Edited by DocM
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wv@gt    2,588

 

 

And yet we are still waiting for his action to put forward to protect the citizens of this country from the violence similar to Vegas.  

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DocM    16,615

Reminder: it was the Obama Administration ATF which ruled the bumper stocks used in Vegas were legal. 

 

Clearly, they shouldn't be. Even the NRA has said the bumper stocks need another look. The problem is you just can't change the law overnight. This is a work in progress.

 

 

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wakjak    19,130
8 minutes ago, DocM said:

Reminder: it was the Obama Administration ATF which ruled the bumper stocks used in Vegas were legal. 

 

Clearly, they shouldn't be. Even the NRA has said the bumper stocks need another look. The problem is you just can't change the law overnight. This is a work in progress.

 

 

And yet, a month later and still the do-nothing congress sit on their hands.

 

So now while you try to blame the Obama Administration, that ended on January 20th 2017. After that day the ATF has fallen under Trumps administration. So now, they do nothing to regulate, and it is now on them. So I should expect the same scrutiny from you against them as well?

Doubtful. That would require admitting the Trump administration being a bunch of do-nothings. And we all know you won't do that.

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DocM    16,615
33 minutes ago, wakjak said:

And yet, a month later and still the do-nothing congress sit on their hands.

 

So now while you try to blame the Obama Administration, that ended on January 20th 2017. After that day the ATF has fallen under Trumps administration. So now, they do nothing to regulate, and it is now on them. So I should expect the same scrutiny from you against them as well?
>

If Trump were to tell ATF to suddenly change the rule on bumper stocks tomorrow morning there will be a court case asking for the suspension of that decision. Like liberals did with the travel ban. 

 

Goose, gander etc. The end result would still be nothing getting done.

 

The only way to fix this is legislatively, and right now Congress is tied up writing a budget and history shows that is an all-consuming process. 

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wakjak    19,130
2 minutes ago, DocM said:

The only way to fix this is legislatively, and right now Congress is tied up writing a budget and history shows that is an all-consuming process. 

Make all the excuses you want. This is on Trump now.

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DocM    16,615
Just now, wakjak said:

Make all the excuses you want. This is on Trump now.

Civics lesson: there are three co-equal branches of government, and changing the Firearms Act has to be done by the Legislative Branch. Trump is not in the legislative branch. He can sign what they produce, or veto it, but he can't write it.

 

 

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wakjak    19,130
43 minutes ago, DocM said:

there are three co-equal branches of government

under the Trump administration. Yes.

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techbeck    6,940

 

2 hours ago, wakjak said:

And yet, a month later and still the do-nothing congress sit on their hands.

Reminds me of a joke.  Pro is the opposite of con, what is the opposite of progress?

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Zagadka    4,093

"New York attack suspect should get death penalty, Trump says"

 

Well.. yea, perhaps the majority of the populace is up for the death penalty anyway, and mass murder is probably grounds for that. Honestly, I would actually prefer him getting a trial and the death sentence (which I am generally not supportive of) than Trump's other suggestion of Gitmo. Gitmo is an affront to the concepts of our nation.

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techbeck    6,940
10 minutes ago, Mirumir said:

Regress.

Congress

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Zagadka    4,093

Collective punishment, brilliant!

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+GoodbyeNeowin    1,287

If the guy didn't declare allegiance to ISIS, I would have said perhaps he was just irritated with those bicyclist taking up the street whenever they please, causing more congestion and traffic.

 

Waterboard him. This will get some good intel!

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+GoodbyeNeowin    1,287
12 hours ago, wakjak said:

under the Trump administration. Yes.

The Obama administration is a better example of what you are trying to project. The Trump administration is being blocked at every turn by the other two thirds of our government, because the majority of our government is a bunch of corrupt, hypocritical bureaucrats.

 

That's why Hilary lost the election, despite her collusion with Russia and cheating Bernie Sander's out of the candidacy.

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wakjak    19,130
31 minutes ago, SpeedyTheSnail said:

I would have said perhaps he was just irritated with those bicyclist taking up the street whenever they please

... in......in..... the BIKE lane?

 

giphy.gif

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PsYcHoKiLLa    2,399
48 minutes ago, SpeedyTheSnail said:

If the guy didn't declare allegiance to ISIS, I would have said perhaps he was just irritated with those bicyclist taking up the street whenever they please, causing more congestion and traffic.

 

Waterboard him. This will get some good intel!

What intel? He lived in the US and just declared allegiance to IS, IS isn't an organisation with any palpable structure. People will just commit atrocities and say they're doing it on behalf of IS, that doesn't mean they'll have Intel on IS.

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