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'Mass shooting' reported at small town church in Texas

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ctebah    3,161
Quote

A gunman opened fire at a church in Texas during Sunday services, resulting in multiple reported casualties.

The attack happened at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs in Wilson County.

Local ABC affiliate KSAT 12 reported the gunman entered the church at around 11:30 local time and began shooting.

Police told the outlet there were "multiple victims" and the gunman had been killed in the aftermath. The number of casualties is not yet clear.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41880511

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The Evil Overlord    18,442

Just saw this on my twitter feed....

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Zagadka    4,092

20 killed so far :-(

 

This has been a very traumatic month.

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wakjak    19,013
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At least 27 dead in Texas church shooting

 

At least 27 people have died after a gunman opened fire at a church in Texas during Sunday services.

The attack happened at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs in Wilson County.

A police commissioner at the scene confirmed that at least 27 people had died. Several others are reported to be injured.

The San Antonio FBI branch said its agents had been deployed, and there was no indication of the gunman's motive.

The FBI also said that while only one shooter was reported, it was looking into other possibilities.

Local ABC affiliate KSAT 12 reported the gunman entered the church at around 11:30 local time (17:30 GMT). It also said he had been killed in the aftermath.

Photos and video from the scene showed the area taped off by local law enforcement.

A number of helicopters have arrived to transport the wounded, KSAT 12 reporter Max Massey said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41880511
 

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Yogurth    2,243

The USA must, if weapon control is out of the question, introduce serious and mandatory psychiatrical and psychological evaluations and regular check-ups for current and would be gun owners. 

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Zagadka    4,092

Let's not start with the gun debate until we know the situation.

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ctebah    3,161
10 minutes ago, Yogurth said:

The USA must, if weapon control is out of the question, introduce serious and mandatory psychiatrical and psychological evaluations and regular check-ups for current and would be gun owners. 

Nothing will be done.  

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HoochieMamma    730

What is it with you Americans and guns, seriously...

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+Raze    16,757

This thread was created to discuss/debate guns -

 

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Jim K    13,735
Quote

 

The shooting suspect has been identified as Devin Patrick Kelley, CBS News has learned from federal law enforcement sources.

 

Kelley is a former U.S. Air Force member who served from 2010 to 2014. He received a dishonorable discharge and was court martialed in May 2014, CBS News has learned.

 

A law enforcement official confirmed that the gunman is deceased. He was shot after a car chase with police, but it's unclear if he shot himself or if he was shot by police, CBS News' senior investigative producer Pat Milton reports.

CBS News

 

Also, the pastor's 14-year-old daughter was killed (among other children).

 

Terrible :( 

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wv@gt    2,563

Another one :/

Man something needs to be done. All this outrage for changing things after new York this week and I hope Congress does something now 

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mudslag    8,426
3 hours ago, Zagadka said:

Let's not start with the gun debate until we know the situation.

 

 

Part of the problem is that the gun debate keeps getting pushed back. A month after the Vegas shooting and no true debates are still going on about that shooting other then news and isolated groups like forums, not where it really matters like Congress. The second issue is we kind of already know of the situation, someone went on another rampage killing. The people that do that tend to not be right in the head. Another issue also not being discussed in the places it truly needs to be. 

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DocM    16,612
2 hours ago, HoochieMamma said:

What is it with you Americans and guns, seriously...

FYI, the firearm homicide rate/100,000 people is half what it was in 1993 and it is at its lowest point since the 1960's. This in spite of there being almost three times as many firearms.

 

The perceived "increase" is because of the 24-hour new cycle and more ways to receive it.

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Xenon    7,394

And here come all the thoughts and prayers from all the politicians that are paid off by the NRA.

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HoochieMamma    730
10 minutes ago, DocM said:

FYI, the firearm homicide rate/100,000 people is half what it was in 1993 and it is at its lowest point since the 1960's. This in spite of there being almost three times as many firearms.

 

The perceived "increase" is because of the 24-hour new cycle and more ways to receive it.

Oh ok, how many mass murders were there during the 60s though? Has that increased only recently? I'm not too sure about that one

 

My comment was more geared towards the mentality people have in the USA regarding guns, you don't have that here in Australia. One mass murder happened here and every single gun outside of single shot rifles and low end pistols where rounded up and destoryed. Honestly, the best thing we have done as a country. No mass murders, no gun violence every day/week, hardly any robberies with anything more than a stick or at worst a pistol.

 

People here just don't care about guns. Unless you're on a farm no one even sees one here, most of the time I'm the only one in a group of people who has fired a weapon and that was beacuse I did when I was younger on a trip to Italy.

 

The problem I see is trying to change this mentality, which I can't see happening as it's too engrained into the minds of every american.

 

These attacks are absolutely disgusting and they continue to happen and seem to be getting worse. I mean, in a church now? :no:

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DocM    16,612

The reasons whythe Australian  law would not work in the US have been covered in the gun thread. I recommend you read it. 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-church-shooting-sutherland-springs-first-baptist-church-live-stream-updates/

 

Quote


>
The shooting suspect has been identified as 26-year-old Devin Patrick Kelley, CBS News has learned from federal law enforcement sources.

Kelley is a former U.S. Air Force member who served from 2010 to 2014. He was dishonorably discharged and court martialed in May 2014, CBS News has learned.

A law enforcement official confirmed that the gunman is deceased. He was shot after a car chase with police, but it's unclear if he shot himself or if he was shot by police, CBS News' senior investigative producer Pat Milton reports.
>
>
As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his gun and pursued the suspect, who dropped his weapon and fled the scene.
>

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wakjak    19,013

Call me a cinic but... 

 

But let's not talk gun control when mass shootings are at an all time high. 

No sir, this is not the right time. Next time won't be the right time. The time after that won't be the right time. 

 

 

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wv@gt    2,563

I'm just tired of this, just tired of seeing these horrible events unfold. Im tired of seeing this debate going nowhere and tired of the inaction. 

Im tired of seeing or being told we can't have this debate or its too soon, but somehow we can have a debate about doing background checks on rental cars less than 24 hours after the event.

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DocM    16,612

Where are the Habit is in the gun forum. That said,

 

I'm wondering what he was charged with during the court-martial. IIRC, the Fizz offense was punishable by up to a year or more in prison then he was ineligible to purchase firearm. I don't believe it matters if he was actually sentenced to prison or not.

 

Another thing to consider regarding AR-15. There are many other hunting rifles which are also semi-automatic, as matter of fact probably most of them.  The AR "looks bad" and is black, so.... 

 

The AR does have a magazine in various sizes which can carry up to 30 5.56mm/.223" rounds, which can be fired off in a matter of 10 seconds or so.  This may sound like a high rate of fire until you consider that a single shotgun round can launch up to 41 #4 buckshot pellets (34 is more typical), which are .24" in size - slightly larger than the 5.56mm.  Many shotguns can carry 5-7 rounds and in many loads the pellets diverge rapidly (hence "scattergun"), so....

 

For: if bad guys hear shotgun rack they they head for the hills. I hear the same thing happening in Afghanistan when US troops were armed with shotguns.

 

Bottom line: the AR is not the ultimate killing machine it's portrayed to be. Neither is it the weapon used for most firearm deaths. One of the most commonly used firearms for homicides is the lowly .22 Long Rifle. 

 

Shot_size_chart.jpg

Edited by DocM

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DocM    16,612
16 minutes ago, alpha2beta said:

http://redstatewatcher.com/article.asp?id=103653. It was already illegal for him to own this gun so making more laws won't help. It's people like this we need to go after.

 https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155632297462324&amp%3Bset=p.10155632297462324&amp%3Btype=3&amp%3Btheater

Precisely. New laws don't matter when the perpetrator was violating the law out of the gate. 

 

And he could have made a submachine gun using basic metal working tools and metal stock. This has  been a big problem in Brazil

 

 

Edited by DocM
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Jazmac    2,832
4 hours ago, wv@gt said:

Another one :/

Man something needs to be done. All this outrage for changing things after new York this week and I hope Congress does something now 

They will do what they always do, Play like they care and tell you now is not the time to discuss it. We just had a shooter here in Vegas mow down 58 people and Sandy Hook Elementary had 20 children killed between 5 to 10 years of age. Children! All buried by they parents and families and the refrain was exactly the same, "we care about children, now is not the time to discuss the proliferation of guns and who can get them". I think congress feed on dead Americans like buzzards feed on carrion. 

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Jim K    13,735
9 minutes ago, DocM said:

Precisely. New laws don't matter when the perpetrator was violating the law out of the gate. 

 

And he could have made a submachine gun using basic metal working tools and metal stock. This is a big problem in Brazil right now.

...or he bought it at a gun show (or another private seller).  Texas (and other states) doesn't require private sellers to conduct background checks on buyers.  He could have, of course, owned the weapon(s) prior to his dishonorable discharge.

 

I'm sure when/how the weapon(s) were obtained will be uncovered during the investigation.  Until then ... this is all speculation.  

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DocM    16,612

Here in Michigan private handgun sales have to go through the background check and purchase permit process, unless the purchaser has a concealed weapons permit in which case they are considered pre-vetted.

 

This, however, does not cover used long arms and in most states the law does not require require a background check for them. 

 

Here's an interesting article about the situation with Brazilian homemade submachine guns.  Judging from their appearance, they are very similar to the homemade submachine guns that have been showing up on the streets of Perth, Australia.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/22/common-illicitly-homemade-submachine-guns-brazil/amp/

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