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'Mass shooting' reported at small town church in Texas

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DocM    16,611

Oh yeah, he was definitely ineligible to make a legal firearms purchase...

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/devin-patrick-kelley-texas-shooting-suspect-sutherland-springs-first-baptist-church-latest/

 

>


Kelley was court-martialed in 2012 for two counts of assault on his spouse and assault on their child, Stefanek said. He received a bad conduct discharge and confinement for 12 months.
>

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wakjak    19,012
19 minutes ago, DocM said:

Oh yeah, he was definitely ineligible to make a legal firearms purchase...

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/devin-patrick-kelley-texas-shooting-suspect-sutherland-springs-first-baptist-church-latest/

 

 

 

Quote

 

 


CNN reported that “Devin Kelley purchased the Ruger-AR556 rifle in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors in San Antonio…Official says Kelley checked box to indicate he didn’t have any disqualifying criminal history on background paperwork.”

 

 

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2017/11/devin-kelley-p-sutherland-springs-church-shooter-patrick-kelly/amp/

 

Well that was some thorough background check they did on him... Wow.... All you have to do is check a box that says no....

 

No wonder your gun laws are so broken, if all you need to do is check "no" on the background check.. 

 

But now isn't the time to discuss fixing that problem... 

 

This is as much a Texas problem as it was him buying the gun in the first place. 

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wakjak    19,012
1 hour ago, DocM said:

Where are the Habit is in the gun forum. That said,

 

I'm wondering what he was charged with during the court-martial. IIRC, the Fizz offense was punishable by up to a year or more in prison then he was ineligible to purchase firearm. I don't believe it matters if he was actually sentenced to prison or not.

 

Another thing to consider regarding AR-15. There are many other hunting rifles which are also semi-automatic, as matter of fact probably most of them.  The AR "looks bad" and is black, so.... 

 

The AR does have a magazine in various sizes which can carry up to 30 5.56mm/.223" rounds, which can be fired off in a matter of 10 seconds or so.  This may sound like a high rate of fire until you consider that a single shotgun round can launch up to 41 #4 buckshot pellets (34 is more typical), which are .24" in size - slightly larger than the 5.56mm.  Many shotguns can carry 5-7 rounds and in many loads the pellets diverge rapidly (hence "scattergun"), so....

 

For: if bad guys hear shotgun rack they they head for the hills. I hear the same thing happening in Afghanistan when US troops were armed with shotguns.

 

Bottom line: the AR is not the ultimate killing machine it's portrayed to be. Neither is it the weapon used for most firearm deaths. One of the most commonly used firearms for homicides is the lowly .22 Long Rifle. 

 

Shot_size_chart.jpg

And how many mass shootings have been the result of a shotgun or a .22?

 

Thought so. 

 

30 minutes ago, DocM said:

Here in Michigan private handgun sales have to go through the background check and purchase permit process, unless the purchaser has a concealed weapons permit in which case they are considered pre-vetted.

 

This, however, does not cover used long arms and in most states the law does not require require a background check for them. 

 

Here's an interesting article about the situation with Brazilian homemade submachine guns.  Judging from their appearance, they are very similar to the homemade submachine guns that have been showing up on the streets of Perth, Australia.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/22/common-illicitly-homemade-submachine-guns-brazil/amp/

Irrelevant to this case, he was from Texas not Michigan. 

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Rippleman    3,851
4 hours ago, DocM said:

FYI, the firearm homicide rate/100,000 people is half what it was in 1993 and it is at its lowest point since the 1960's. This in spite of there being almost three times as many firearms.

 

The perceived "increase" is because of the 24-hour new cycle and more ways to receive it.

You can make the claim that everything is fine and dandy but the world disagrees with you. 

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alpha2beta    397

Next thing to ask is what psychiatric meds he was on, if any.  Most of these mass shooters are on some type of psychiatric meds. But you will probably never hear about this in the mainstream news because most of their funding comes from big pharma.

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alpha2beta    397

Looks like the extreme left strikes again.

4796c52ce04ad558db57d49a7ec7b77b89ea421b25e9c1b1feacacc517905761.jpg

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Zagadka    4,092

Yea. damn pharma, they... shouldn't be medicating people? Don't quite get your point. I mean, they are ######, but if he SHOULD be on meds...

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alpha2beta    397
4 minutes ago, Zagadka said:

Yea. damn pharma, they... shouldn't be medicating people? Don't quite get your point. I mean, they are ######, but if he SHOULD be on meds...

It's called side effects that are well known.

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Zagadka    4,092

A side effect of a psych med is... psych issues?

 

Your point should be "what drugs WASN'T he on that he should have been"... and that is something Big Pharma would promote...

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wakjak    19,012
38 minutes ago, alpha2beta said:

Looks like the extreme left strikes again.

4796c52ce04ad558db57d49a7ec7b77b89ea421b25e9c1b1feacacc517905761.jpg

Well that's a stupid assumption to make. May be true, still stupid though.

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T3X4S    4,532

I hear a couple of reports said he taught bible studies in New Braunfels.  Then I hear this "atheist obsessed with civil rights"

It was proven the Newsweek posts about Antifa, and atheist were BS, but its too early to tell what actually was the case.

I think there is a case to be made for psychiatric meds for the people who use events like this to create false narratives, and mock up fake news stories.

A couple of hours after this happened, there were photoshopped antifa flag pics in his facebook page.  Is pushing an agenda so important ? (at least the pic I saw was clearly not legit)

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T3X4S    4,532
1 hour ago, alpha2beta said:

Looks like the extreme left strikes again.

4796c52ce04ad558db57d49a7ec7b77b89ea421b25e9c1b1feacacc517905761.jpg

Correct me if Im wrong.
But doesnt that pic show a page for someone else, and they simply typed in the name "Devin Kelley" in the search bar without actually searching ?

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DocM    16,611

Two civilians ran him down...

 

http://m.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Hero-describes-how-he-tracked-down-church-shooter-12334070.php?ipid=brkbar

 

>


"I pulled up to the intersection where the shooting happened and I saw two men exchanging gunfire," Langendorff said, noting the shooter and another local were shooting at each other. 

Once the gunman fled the church grounds in his vehicle, Langendorff said the other man came to his car.

"The other gentleman said we needed to pursue (the shooter) because he shot up the church," he said. "So that's what I did. I just acted."

The pair chased the man down FM 539 headed North before the shooter lost control and ran off the roadway. Langendorff said the other man with him jumped out of the car and drew his rifle on Kelley.

"He didn't move after that," Langendorff said.

The pair were able to lead law enforcement authorities to where Kelley was. The 26-year-old was found dead in his vehicle. It is not immediately clear how he died.

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Skiver    1,960

I read something on Reddit that this town has a population of roughly 1000 people, meaning that 5% of this town was killed or harmed physically in this attack, horribly sad situation.

 

 

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alpha2beta    397
7 hours ago, Zagadka said:

A side effect of a psych med is... psych issues?

 

Your point should be "what drugs WASN'T he on that he should have been"... and that is something Big Pharma would promote...

Yes side effects of psych meds is psych issues. The drug companies themselves say it. Even ads on TV say "If you have suicidal thoughts contact your doctor immediately" 

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PsYcHoKiLLa    2,394
4 hours ago, wakjak said:

That's what we need, vigilante justice, with possibility of more casualties from random yahoos thinking they're from the wild wild west...

Yee and indeed Haw

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wv@gt    2,563

And again here we go again with Fox News talking about the lefts need to politicize the mass shooting right away.....yet not even a week ago they were doing this exact same thing after New York. I hate now how hypocritical these media outlets are and they are so blind to it.

 

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5636770458001/?#sp=show-clips

 

Kellyanne Conyway cant see why people have a need to politicize these attacks right away, and talks about Vegas and this, but omits the fact the Fox and The Trump admin did the very same thing last week. 

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DocM    16,611
8 hours ago, wakjak said:

That's what we need, vigilante justice, with possibility of more casualties from random yahoos thinking they're from the wild wild west...

FYI, 49 States have Citizens Arrest  laws and in #50 (South Carolina) it is the distinction with little difference. In such States civilians have the right to make an arrest if they witness a crime. This is a civilian police power delegated by the State, not vigilantism. 

 

As an example, Richard Ramirez (AKA The Night Stalker, a serial killer who killed 14 in California) was apprehended by a group of civilians performing a citizen's arrest. 

 

In States like Michigan, and I believe Texas, civilians also have the right to fire on a fleeing felony suspect in order to stop and arrest them - AKA a 'Fleeing Felon Rule.' if they don't survive this arrest, it was their choice - they could have stopped.

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DocM    16,611

The dumbasses didn't enter his court-martial conviction into the FBI NICS database, which is used to validate gun sales.

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html?referer=http://www.idrudgereport.com/

 

Quote

Air Force Error Allowed Texas Gunman to Buy Weapons

 

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Tex.  A day after a gunman massacred parishioners in a small Texas church, the Air Force admitted on Monday that it had failed to enter the mans domestic violence court-martial into a federal database that could have blocked him from buying the rifle he used to kill 26 people.
>
"We know that he had made threatening texts and we can't go into detail into that domestic situation that is continuing to be vetted and thoroughly investigated."

"This was not racially motivated, it wasn't over religious beliefs, it was a domestic situation going on", Mr. Martin added.

Mr. Kelleys wife and her parents were not at the church on Sunday, the authorities said, but a relative of his wifes grandmother posted on Facebook that the grandmother was there and had been killed.
>

 

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sc302    1,744
Oh ok, how many mass murders were there during the 60s though? Has that increased only recently? I'm not too sure about that one
 
My comment was more geared towards the mentality people have in the USA regarding guns, you don't have that here in Australia. One mass murder happened here and every single gun outside of single shot rifles and low end pistols where rounded up and destoryed. Honestly, the best thing we have done as a country. No mass murders, no gun violence every day/week, hardly any robberies with anything more than a stick or at worst a pistol.
 
People here just don't care about guns. Unless you're on a farm no one even sees one here, most of the time I'm the only one in a group of people who has fired a weapon and that was beacuse I did when I was younger on a trip to Italy.
 
The problem I see is trying to change this mentality, which I can't see happening as it's too engrained into the minds of every american.
 
These attacks are absolutely disgusting and they continue to happen and seem to be getting worse. I mean, in a church now? :no:

There is far more media coverage than ever before bringing this to a new amount of light. Does that make it more than before, not necessarily. Does it make it more globally known and given others ideas to do the same, yes it does.

Illegal is illegal, if your intent is to cause harm to others, if not in defense, it is illegal. It doesn’t matter if you use a chair, a stone, a car, a bow, a gun, or a bomb.

You can have all of the gun restrictions you want. If there is a will there will be a way to obtain or create something illegal to cause harm.
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DocM    16,611

This guy should have been In the FBI NICS instant background check database several times over.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/07/as-texas-town-mourns-details-emerge-on-gunmans-methodical-tactics-in-church-massacre/?utm_term=.5a4be1df2e8b

 

Quote

NEW BRAUNFELS, Tex. — The gunman who opened fire in a church outside San Antonio, killing at least 26 people, escaped from a mental health facility in 2012 after he was caught sneaking guns onto an Air Force base and “attempting to carry out death threats” made against military superiors, according to a police report.

 

The report said officers with the El Paso, police were dispatched to a bus terminal after Devin P. Kelley‘s escape from a behavioral facility about seven miles away in New Mexico. Officers wrote they were told Kelley, who intended to take a bus out of the state, “was a danger to himself and others” at the time and noted that he “was also facing military criminal charges.”

This incident occurred the same year that Kelley was court-martialed. He was charged with abusing his wife and her son between April 2011 and April 2012 and then sentenced in November 2012, according to Air Force documents.
>

 

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