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Mexico suffers deadliest month on record, 2017 set to be worst year

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techbeck    5,264

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - There were more murders in October in Mexico than in any month over at least 20 years, according to official data, in the latest grim milestone in 2017, a year on course to register the highest homicide tally since modern records began.

 

Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto’s failure to tackle growing drug violence is seen as a major weakness ahead of next July’s presidential election, where he faces an uphill battle to keep his centrist Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) in power.

 

The data, published by Mexico’s interior ministry on Monday, showed there were 2,371 murder investigations opened in October.

 

With 20,878 murders nationwide in the first 10 months of 2017, this year is on track to overtake 2011 as the most violent since the government began publishing such data in 1997.

 

There were an average of 69 murders a day so far this year, putting Mexico on track to overtake the 2011 homicide tally before the end of November. In 2011, there were an average of 63 murders per day, according to Reuters calculations.

 

More.....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence/mexico-suffers-deadliest-month-on-record-2017-set-to-be-worst-year-idUSKBN1DL2Z6

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+ctebah    2,964

If Americans didn't like their drugs so much, most of those killed in Mexico would still be alive.

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DocM    12,929

If the last 4-5 administration's hadn't been such wusses and had got serious about border security, both situations could have been prevented. Unfortunately, they were more interested in expediting the importation of cheap labor (and voters) then they were about doing what both countries needed.

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theyarecomingforyou    9,427
25 minutes ago, DocM said:

If the last 4-5 administration's hadn't been such wusses and had got serious about border security, both situations could have been prevented. Unfortunately, they were more interested in expediting the importation of cheap labor (and voters) then they were about doing what both countries needed.

Way to overlook the United States' failed War on Drugs™, which is primarily responsible for the destabilisation of Mexico. If the US stopped meddling in the affairs of other countries the situation wouldn't be as bad as it is today. To portray this as a border security issue is groteseque in how completely it distorts the underlying cause. Further, the US solved its migration problem by collapsing its own economy, resulting in more Mexicans leaving the US than entering.

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DocM    12,929
12 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

Way to overlook the United States' failed War on Drugs™, which is primarily responsible for the destabilisation of Mexico. 

 

Blaming the drug war is putting the cart before the horse. The most recent instabilities with regards to drugs begun in the 1960-1970s when the narco-traffickers started bringing mass quantities of cocaine in from S. America and heroin from Asia. The drug war was a response to this, not the cause of it.

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theyarecomingforyou    9,427
5 minutes ago, DocM said:

 

Blaming the drug war is putting the cart before the horse. The most recent instabilities with regards to drugs begun in the 1960-1970s when the narco-traffickers started bringing mass quantities of cocaine in from S. America and heroin from Asia. The drug war was a response to this, not the cause of it.

What part of Americans consuming drugs warrants destabilising other countries? If drugs are entering the country illegally then patrol the borders or treat addiction. Instead the US toppled nations to tackle a domestic issue. The US response to the domestic drug problem is to blame for all of this.

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DocM    12,929
On 12/1/2017 at 5:56 AM, theyarecomingforyou said:

What part of Americans consuming drugs warrants destabilising other countries? If drugs are entering the country illegally then patrol the borders or treat addiction. Instead the US toppled nations to tackle a domestic issue. The US response to the domestic drug problem is to blame for all of this.

Both supply and demand are problems. Addressing one does not eliminate the need to address the other. 

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theyarecomingforyou    9,427
2 minutes ago, DocM said:

Both supply and demand are problems. Addressing one does not eliminate the need to address the other. 

Criminalising alcohol only led to increased crime, with prohibition being one of the most disastrous policies ever seen. Unfortunately the US has persisted in that approach when it comes to drugs. Portugal, a company that took a very different approach by decriminalising drug use, has seen addiction, usage and crime all reduce whilst addicts have come forward to seek treatment. The US could have implemented a sensible domestic policy with regards to drugs - instead it chose to funnel trillions of dollars into the military and go around the globe collapsing governments. You may consider that a sensible policy - most do not.

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Emn1ty    3,300
37 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

The US could have implemented a sensible domestic policy with regards to drugs - instead it chose to funnel trillions of dollars into the military and go around the globe collapsing governments.

Nice attempt at using the military as a false dilemma.

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theyarecomingforyou    9,427
1 minute ago, Emn1ty said:

Nice attempt at using the military as a false dilemma.

The US chose to spend trillions of dollars on the military instead of healthcare or any number of other things. Even if you choose to jump focus on the War on Drugs™which has cost in excessive of a trillion dollars whilst drug usage has remained unchanged—the US would have done better to simply decriminalise drug use and invest money in treatment. Imagine all the social good that could be done with that sort of money. Sadly it's easier to convince the American public to support a counter-productive war in the Middle East than invest in healthcare, education or infrastructure.

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Emn1ty    3,300
Just now, theyarecomingforyou said:

The US chose to spend trillions of dollars on the military instead of healthcare or any number of other things. Even if you choose to jump focus on the War on Drugs™which has cost in excessive of a trillion dollars whilst drug usage has remained unchanged—the US would have done better to simply decriminalise drug use and invest money in treatment. Imagine all the social good that could be done with that sort of money. Sadly it's easier to convince the American public to support a counter-productive war in the Middle East than invest in healthcare, education or infrastructure.

The thing is these aren't mutually exclusive goals. What you have a problem with isn't priority but policy. Hence false dilemma. You're convoluting these other issues with this one.

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Gladiatorus    271
On 11/22/2017 at 6:58 AM, techbeck said:

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - There were more murders in October in Mexico than in any month over at least 20 years, according to official data, in the latest grim milestone in 2017, a year on course to register the highest homicide tally since modern records began.

 

Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto’s failure to tackle growing drug violence is seen as a major weakness ahead of next July’s presidential election, where he faces an uphill battle to keep his centrist Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) in power.

 

The data, published by Mexico’s interior ministry on Monday, showed there were 2,371 murder investigations opened in October.

 

With 20,878 murders nationwide in the first 10 months of 2017, this year is on track to overtake 2011 as the most violent since the government began publishing such data in 1997.

 

There were an average of 69 murders a day so far this year, putting Mexico on track to overtake the 2011 homicide tally before the end of November. In 2011, there were an average of 63 murders per day, according to Reuters calculations.

 

More.....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence/mexico-suffers-deadliest-month-on-record-2017-set-to-be-worst-year-idUSKBN1DL2Z6

But the stupid SoB Mayor of Mexico City, Miguel Angel Mancera dares to say there's no crime in the city. MoFo deserves the electric chair together with Peña Nieto.

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theyarecomingforyou    9,427
2 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

The thing is these aren't mutually exclusive goals. What you have a problem with isn't priority but policy. Hence false dilemma. You're convoluting these other issues with this one.

They all relate together. Mexico is largely a mess due to the United States' failed War on Drugs™, which has cost trillions whilst doing nothing to reduce drug usage. The United States continues to spend obscene amounts of money on the military and police on pointless and counter-productive endeavours.

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Emn1ty    3,300
21 hours ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

They all relate together. Mexico is largely a mess due to the United States' failed War on Drugs™, which has cost trillions whilst doing nothing to reduce drug usage. The United States continues to spend obscene amounts of money on the military and police on pointless and counter-productive endeavours.

Yes, the war on drugs has been far less effective if not downright counterproductive. That doesn't give you jurisdiction to call it a waste of money. That is hindsight bias. Do you think they knew it wouldn't work out when they came up with the idea? I doubt it.

And to say that legalization will improve things just because one or two countries have had success is just as much a gamble. Say we legalize these substances, what about the additional influx of impaired drivers we will almost certainly get? Are you prepared to skyrocket the number of DUI's and likely deaths caused by such?

There is no easy answer here, so stop trying to make it simple. Stop convoluting different issues to justify your black and white view on things.

 

You can not like the policy all you want, but whether or not money is going into legalizing and regulating drugs or combating and banning them the money is still being spent on the drug problem. Just not how you'd like. 

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theyarecomingforyou    9,427
1 hour ago, Emn1ty said:

Yes, the war on drugs has been far less effective if not downright counterproductive. That doesn't give you jurisdiction to call it a waste of money. That is hindsight bias.

No it's not. Drug enforcement has never reduced drug usage or addiction. And it's not like we even needed hindsight, as prohibition told us everything we needed to know about heavy handed enforcement. It absolutely WAS a waste of money and the result was completely predictable. Just like it was predictable that invading Iraq and Afghanistan would destabilise the region.

 

We're not talking about a small amount of money. The government could easily have said after spending half a trillion that it wasn't achieving anything and scrapped it at that point. You're acting like blowing a trillion dollars on a failed drugs war is an easy mistake to make!

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firey    3,644
On 11/23/2017 at 11:49 AM, ctebah said:

If Americans didn't like their drugs so much, most of those killed in Mexico would still be alive.

It's not just Americans. I for one can't wait until July 1, 2018 when weed be legal in Canada.. might end up saving a few Mexican lives.

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Emn1ty    3,300
1 hour ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

You're acting like blowing a trillion dollars on a failed drugs war is an easy mistake to make!

And you're acting like the drug problem is an easy one to solve. It isn't, no matter how much you may think it is. I also like how you completely ignore my question about the ramifications of legalization. Is that because you didn't think through the possible negative effects of your proposed solution, or because you simply chose to ignore them?

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+ctebah    2,964
18 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

Yes, the war on drugs has been far less effective if not downright counterproductive. That doesn't give you jurisdiction to call it a waste of money.

How was it not?  Hundreds of billions of dollars have went into the war on drugs, yet drug usage went up as did supply.

 

Quote

And to say that legalization will improve things just because one or two countries have had success is just as much a gamble.

Sure, but wouldn't that gamble be better than wasting such huge amount of money and getting no results?

 

Quote

Say we legalize these substances, what about the additional influx of impaired drivers we will almost certainly get? Are you prepared to skyrocket the number of DUI's and likely deaths caused by such?

There is not data to back up this assertion.  Most DUIs still happen from alcohol.

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dead.cell    2,260
1 hour ago, ctebah said:

There is not data to back up this assertion.  Most DUIs still happen from alcohol.

What's with the comparison? It's still a problem if you do some reading.  As stated, many people under the influence of narcotics also have alcohol in their system. The method for determining whether someone is drunk is probably more commonly used than to determine what type of drugs are in their system.

 

https://www.madd.org/statistics/

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drugged-driving

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+ctebah    2,964
11 minutes ago, dead.cell said:

What's with the comparison? It's still a problem if you do some reading.  As stated, many people under the influence of narcotics also have alcohol in their system. The method for determining whether someone is drunk is probably more commonly used than to determine what type of drugs are in their system.

 

https://www.madd.org/statistics/

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drugged-driving

The comparison is about the hypocrisy of alcohol vs drugs when it comes to DUIs.

 

The point, however, is that there's no data to backup that legalizing drugs will all of a sudden result in a skyrocketing number of DUIs and deaths.

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techbeck    5,264
13 minutes ago, dead.cell said:

What's with the comparison? It's still a problem if you do some reading.  As stated, many people under the influence of narcotics also have alcohol in their system. The method for determining whether someone is drunk is probably more commonly used than to determine what type of drugs are in their system.

 

https://www.madd.org/statistics/

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drugged-driving

States where marijuana is legal, people caught with DUIs are more and more testing positive for marijuana.  So it is logical to bet that more it becomes legalized, more people will be caught driving with ti in their systems.  From what I have seen, DUIs sky rocket at first but slow down.

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firey    3,644
3 hours ago, techbeck said:

States where marijuana is legal, people caught with DUIs are more and more testing positive for marijuana.  So it is logical to bet that more it becomes legalized, more people will be caught driving with ti in their systems.  From what I have seen, DUIs sky rocket at first but slow down.

The people who DUI on weed are the exact same people who DUI on alcohol.

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Emn1ty    3,300
3 hours ago, firey said:

The people who DUI on weed are the exact same people who DUI on alcohol.

Actually they might be people who think weed isn't the same as alcohol. California is going to legalize it and they don't even have a system in place yet for how to process DUI's relating to the substance.

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+ctebah    2,964
5 hours ago, firey said:

The people who DUI on weed are the exact same people who DUI on alcohol.

Weed stays in the system and is detectable for days.  This is why you cant successfully claim that the number of DUIs increases due to legalization of marijuana.  

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techbeck    5,264
5 hours ago, firey said:

The people who DUI on weed are the exact same people who DUI on alcohol.

Some.  There are newcomers though.  I also know people who smoke it and do not drink.  And if tested, they can determine approximately how long ago you smoked with how much is in your system at the time of testing. 

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/25/colorado-marijuana-traffic-fatalities/

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