SB WUZ HERE: Surgeon pleads guilty to burning initials into patients organs

[DocM]

 

Ars Technica....

 

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Surgeon pleads guilty to burning initials into patients organs

 

Its usually OK to be proud of your work and lend your name to it. But most people would draw a line at signing their initials into the flesh of internal organs.

Not Dr. Simon Bramhall of the UK, apparently. He pleaded guilty to charges that he etched his initials, SB, onto the livers of two transplant patients with an argon [laser] beam in 2013. Bramhall admitted the assaults in a hearing in Birmingham crown court on Wednesday, according to several news outlets. In doing so, he pleaded guilty to two counts of assault by beating, but pleaded not guilty to the more serious charge of assault occasioning actual bodily harm. Prosecutors were said to have accepted his pleas, and he is scheduled to be sentenced on January 12.

Bramhall previously worked at Birminghams Queen Elizabeth hospital where he gained fame for a dramatic liver transplant in 2010. Bramhall transplanted a liver following the fiery crash-landing of the plane that was transporting the donor liver to Birmingham. Though the pilots were injured, the liver was intact and salvaged from the burning wreckage. The transplant spared the life of Dr. Bramhall's desperately ill patient.
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[FloatingFatMan]

We like to breed some pretty class A psycho's over here, alright...  

[techbeck]

I have heard of cases where initials were stitched in to the skin, but etching an actual organ?   What a complete moron.  He should have his license revoked.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Am I one of the few that doesn't see an issue?

 

Did the etching cause complications? It's not mentioned buy i'm guessing NO. So what's the issue, it's out of sight and not hurting anything.

I see this no differently then buying new windows and the installer etching "installed by ..." somewhere out of sight so it's not an eyesore.

[techbeck]

3 minutes ago, Brandon H said:

Am I one of the few that doesn't see an issue?

 

Did the etching cause complications? NO? Then what's the issue, it's out of sight.

I see this no differently then buying new windows and the installer etching "installed by ..." somewhere out of sight so it's not an eyesore.

It is highly unprofessional and a violation of trust.   People trust doctors to be profession and treat them right when they are helpless like this.  The patient was basically branded.

 

I also remember hearing something about someone recording what was happening when they were under and ended up suing the Dr/Hospital for what was said.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Just now, techbeck said:

It is highly unprofessional and a violation of trust.   People trust doctors to be profession and treat them right when they are helpless like this.

 

I also remember hearing something about someone recording what was happening when they were under and ended up suing the Dr/Hospital for what was said.

again, how is it unprofessional or violation of trust? it's not physically/emotionally or otherwise hurting you. I see it as an indicator if you ever need surgery elsewhere so it's easily identifiable it's not your original organ and easier to tell who performed the surgery. no different then say a serial number on a steel plate IMHO

 

As for your other point of course they would get in trouble for recording things without prior permission as that can potentially be used against you. Initials cannot be used against you or harm you in any way.

 

This whole thing just seems like a huge overreaction if no physical complications came from it.

[techbeck]

1 minute ago, Brandon H said:

again, how is it unprofessional or violation of trust? it's not physically/emotionally or otherwise hurting you. I see it as an indicator

Branding patients and doing things without their consent is violation of trust and unprofessional no matter how you look at it.  Does not matter if it causes harm.   This is a human being.  Not a sculpture or painting.   If they do something like this...what else are they doing?

 

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if you ever need surgery elsewhere so it's easily identifiable it's not your original organ and easier to tell who performed the surgery. no different then say a serial number on a steel plate IMHO

What hospital records are for.  And I am sure they can tell if it was a transplant by other means like just looking at the organ.

[+JR1966 Subscriber²]

15 minutes ago, Brandon H said:

Am I one of the few that doesn't see an issue?

 

Did the etching cause complications? It's not mentioned buy i'm guessing NO. So what's the issue, it's out of sight and not hurting anything.

I see this no differently then buying new windows and the installer etching "installed by ..." somewhere out of sight so it's not an eyesore.

Er, really! What do you do for fun, pull legs off flies. 

[+JR1966 Subscriber²]

24 minutes ago, techbeck said:

I have heard of cases where initials were stitched in to the skin, but etching an actual organ?   What a complete moron.  He should have his license revoked.

That's it, call him a moron and revoke his medical license? He should be put away for a long time. A sane human being doesn't do ###### like this.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

1 minute ago, techbeck said:

Branding patients and doing things without their consent is violation of trust and unprofessional no matter how you look at it.  Does not matter if it causes harm.   This is a human being.  Not a sculpture or painting.   If they do something like this...what else are they doing?

 

What hospital records are for.  And I am sure they can tell if it was a transplant by other means like just looking at the organ.

that's looking at things WAY too darkly. I will agree with the consent part though, everything with consent.

 

What if you're in another country or the Hospital is having network issues? Hospital Records aren't 100%. We could always move forward and start implanting everyone with a Chip if you'd prefer that route.

 

So if it was included in the hospital paperwork that the patient signed would you all still have an issue with it?

Branding i feel is bad because it is associated with searing pain; the patient was under and felt nothing so with an open mind it's no different from a tattoo or similar

[Brandon H Supervisor]

5 minutes ago, JR1966 said:

Er, really! What do you do for fun, pull legs off flies. 

no, I work in a call center. When not working I watch Anime or game with friends

[techbeck]

2 minutes ago, Brandon H said:

What if you're in another country or the Hospital is having network issues? Hospital Records aren't 100%. We could always move forward and start implanting everyone with a Chip if you'd prefer that route.

 

The fact that he hid what he did and did not tell anyone about it tells me he knew it was wrong.  It is also not common practice to do something like this and not a recognized way of logging your work or showing what work has been done.

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So if it was included in the hospital paperwork that the patient signed would you all still have an issue with it?

Not really because the patient was asked and given their approval/consent.  Goes back to what I said about the Dr keeping things quiet and not letting it know what he did.

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Branding i feel is bad because it is associated with searing pain; the patient was under and felt nothing so with an open mind it's no different from a tattoo or similar

Not just searing pain.  Companies  brand their products all the time with logos.

 

 

I may have been a little harsh stating he should get his license revoked...but there needs to be some type of consequences for the actions.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

1 minute ago, techbeck said:

The fact that he hid what he did and did not tell anyone about it tells me he knew it was wrong.  It is also not common practice to do something like this and not a recognized way of logging your work or showing what work has been done.

Ok Yes, if he himself was silent about it and didn't tell anyone he was doing it than that in itself is an issue I agree

 

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Not just searing pain.  Companies  brand their products all the time with logos.

I was more thinking Live Branding such as branding a cow with a heated iron rod but I see your point.

[techbeck]

2 minutes ago, Brandon H said:

Ok Yes, if he himself was silent about it and didn't tell anyone he was doing it than that in itself is an issue I agree

 

I was more thinking Live Branding such as branding a cow with a heated iron rod but I see your point.

 

I get what you were saying as well and if the patient agreed to it, non issue in my book.

 

Also, curious if this would make the organ no good for anyone else.  I mean, if this person dies and their organs go some place else, would they use it with the initials burned in to it or would it be deemed no good?  Yes, technically didnt do any damage but....just curious.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

5 minutes ago, techbeck said:

 

I get what you were saying as well and if the patient agreed to it, non issue in my book.

 

Also, curious if this would make the organ no good for anyone else.  I mean, if this person dies and their organs go some place else, would they use it with the initials burned in to it or would it be deemed no good?  Yes, technically didnt do any damage but....just curious.

interesting question. i'm not even sure if they can be transplanted more than once normally

[techbeck]

Just now, Brandon H said:

interesting question. i'm not even sure if they can be transplanted more than once normally

Not sure either.  But the organ can be labeled as damaged.  I know when material possessions are scratched, some lose a lot of value.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

1 minute ago, techbeck said:

Not sure either.  But the organ can be labeled as damaged.  I know when material possessions are scratched, some lose a lot of value.

good to know