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Who is dropping Verizon or ATT?

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ACTIONpack    414

After Pie ended net neutrality today things are going to change in the next year or so. Verizon, ATT and Comcast wanted to kill net neutrality from the start. Now all the vote were in, we know who wanted it. Are you going to do useimg these wireless services Verizon, ATT Or comcast? I found out that Tmobile does support  Net neutrality. Are you willing to switch carrier to teach them a listen not to con USA people.?

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adrynalyne    8,573
2 minutes ago, ACTIONpack said:

After Pie ended net neutrality today things are going to change in the next year or so. Verizon, ATT and Comcast wanted to kill net neutrality from the start. Now all the vote were in, we know who wanted it. Are you going to do useimg these wireless services Verizon, ATT Or comcast? I found out that Tmobile does support  Net neutrality. Are you willing to switch carrier to teach them a listen not to con USA people.?

T-Mobile supports net neutrality? Loooooool!

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+FloatingFatMan    13,894

From what I understand, switching carrier isn't an option for quite a lot of folks in the US. Y'all's just got shafted.

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+Zagadka    2,091

We don't have a lot of options, no.

 

I'll see what the policies actually change. I have Verizon FiOS which changed names into Frontier. If I actually do notice any throttling or fee structures - and I stream a LOT so this is likely - I will look elsewhere, but at the moment I'm pretty sure that if Frontier changes, other providers in the industry will be making the same changes to keep the same market, and I don't expect rebel companies to establish themselves quickly at all. Mobile I barely use anyway, but I suppose that will be even worse for some people.

 

I am realistic and do expect some worse levels of service. How bad, I don't know, though.

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trag3dy    3,443
47 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

From what I understand, switching carrier isn't an option for quite a lot of folks in the US. Y'all's just got shafted.

Pretty much this. Where I live I get to choose between Verizon or Comcast. And not even the good verizon internet. And I don't even live out in the boonies.

 

At one point in time google was supposed to be bringing their internet service here but I think that's pretty much scrapped now.

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Megan Wright    223

I read an article which said that after the net neutrality is repealed, people can use tor, vpn or proxy to circumvent the speed throttling issues. Does that really help with the throttling issue? I am not sure. Can someone please enlighten me on this?

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adrynalyne    8,573
2 minutes ago, Megan Wright said:

I read an article which said that after the net neutrality is repealed, people can use tor, vpn or proxy to circumvent the speed throttling issues. Does that really help with the throttling issue? I am not sure. Can someone please enlighten me on this?

That may work for a bit, until they block those protocols. Not shocked a vpn vendor wrote that. What happens when they block vpns and other protocols that can circumvent? As more flock to vpn for the throttling issues, vpns will likely be just as slow as the throttle, or even worse. 

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SpeedyTheSnail    869

Since I'm not a mindless activist for the ever repressive left, I am going to continue using Verizon AND AT&T. 

 

The internet was fine before Net Neutrality, it will be just fine without it.

 

The only reason people are really crying is this is one more piece of "Obama's" Legacy that is being torn down.

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adrynalyne    8,573
7 hours ago, SpeedyTheSnail said:

Since I'm not a mindless activist for the ever repressive left, I am going to continue using Verizon AND AT&T. 

 

The internet was fine before Net Neutrality, it will be just fine without it.

 

The only reason people are really crying is this is one more piece of "Obama's" Legacy that is being torn down.

How cute, trying to rewrite history.

https://www.cnet.com/news/comcast-really-does-block-bittorrent-traffic-after-all/

 

Welcome to a brave new age of where your provider can  tell you how you will use the Internet.

 

Edited by Andrew
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Megan Wright    223
12 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

That may work for a bit, until they block those protocols. Not shocked a vpn vendor wrote that. What happens when they block vpns and other protocols that can circumvent? As more flock to vpn for the throttling issues, vpns will likely be just as slow as the throttle, or even worse. 

well till they block it we can take advantage of it. Wonder what we will do after those protocols are blocked. Wish there was a long term solution 

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+FloatingFatMan    13,894
55 minutes ago, Megan Wright said:

well till they block it we can take advantage of it. Wonder what we will do after those protocols are blocked. Wish there was a long term solution 

There is. Get some public servants in office that are actually public servants, not corporate servants.

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+Zagadka    2,091

I'll repost what a friend wrote elsewhere, since he's a lot smarter than me.

 

Quote

First, to address Igor's comment about getting around stuff with a VPN. There is nothing technical that prevents an ISP from throttling or limiting VPN traffic. They know where all the VPN servers are, and they can simply throttle traffic from those servers. They could also easily determine you are streaming video based on the characteristics of the flow of data. They don't have to see that your data source is netflix to know you are streaming video. They could simply choose to throttle bulk data transfers (like video streaming, or large downloads), and not throttle bursty data transfers (like posting on pofo, or shopping online). Basically, video streaming has a certain finger print, so you can throttle on that.

Assuming you are saying the truth (I'd have to guess you are not telling the complete truth), that your ISP throttles video traffic, and you get around it with a VPN; They are most likely letting you get away with it because most people don't do that anyway. They'll just focus on throttling 99% of the traffic that doesn't go through a VPN.


I'm pretty sure Igor doesn't understand how internet infrastructure and internet routing works. The way the US's infrastructure is setup is unique. It makes the rollback of net-neutrality far worse in the US, than say, in the the EU (and I'm sure probably Australia as well). As always, the US has a different setup, which favors monopolistic and anti-competitive behaviors. In the US, ISPs are allowed to own the infrastructure that connects the internet to your house. This makes it easier to setup a monopoly. It's near impossible for upstarts to come in, and start their own ISP service because they'd have to lay their own fiber/cable. In other countries, ISPs are not allowed to own the lines, they have to lease them from a set of other companies that compete for the business of the ISPs. This makes it much easier to startup an ISP in another country. More ISP competition = better prices for consumers. This means that net-neutrality isn't as critical to keeping costs down as it is in the US. In the US, the system is setup for less competition. This is very evident in the cost of cable TV that these very same anti-net-neutrality companies provide. The inflation in cable TV over the last 10 years has been something like 500% (it's why so many people are cutting their cable these days).

Here's the interesting thing. Comcast's cable TV service has skyrocketed in cost because they have a quasi-cartel with 1 or 2 other companies (like ATT and Verizon). These same companies also offer ISP services. This begs the question, why hasn't the cost of their internet service skyrocketed like their cable TV? Answer: Net-Neutrality. Before we get into the reasons this is true, we need some more background...

Net-neutrality has been a feature of the internet since it's inception some 30-ish years ago. We also have to note, that net-neutrality was never an FCC rule until the Obama administration. It's natural to say that if we didn't need the FCC this whole time , why do we need the FCC now? Well, the internet was a very different place for it's first 25-ish years (Anyone 30 or older should remember this VERY well). Network traffic was sparse and bursty (bursty is a real technical term by the way). Most data was email, website traffic ... low bandwidth stuff. Even more important to note, there were little to no web service companies offering things like video and audio streaming, web apps, cloud computing and storage, shopping, etc. etc. Outside of some early shopping sites. Very little revenue was generated directly from internet usage. The internet was more for data sharing that generated revenue indirectly. It wasn't directly used to generate revenue like it is today.

Fast forward to today. We have a ###### tons of web based services consuming all sorts of data. To use much of it, you gotta pay. Consumers want video? Pay for netflix. Want to advertise? Pay for that too. All of these new services generate direct revenue for companies like Netflix, Microsoft, Facebook, etc. etc. All of this is happening on the ISPs infrastructure (remember, in the US, they own the infrastructure). The ISPs realized they want a cut of the money. Especially since they are losing customers due to poor service and price gouging on the cable TV front. Thus, they decided to stick it to these internet companies by charging them for access to their customers. Comcast has already done this to netflix by the way. See here:
https://consumerist.com/2014/02/23/netflix-agrees-to-pay-comcast-to-end-slowdown/

This is why the Obama admin stepped in, and put in net-neutrality as an actual rule. The nature of internet had changed. ISPs wanted to start squeezing money out of these web service companies. Doing this would ###### consumers. Thus, ISPs start fighting net-neutrality.

I predict this will go 1 of 3 ways.
1: We get lucky, and things don't change that much for the consumer.
2: ISPs start to charge Content Delivery Network (CDNs) providers, and Network Transit providers for access to their network. Then these guys will charge web service companies like facebook, netflix, etc. etc. Then these companies will pass the cost to the consumer.
3: Companies like Netflix will find it very hard to compete, because the quasi-cartel will raise prices on CDNs, transit, and peering across the board. At some point, companies like Netflix will have no choice but to come under the ownership of say Comcast. At this point, Comcast/ATT/etc/ can easily inflate web services just like they have done with cable TV.

My guess is scenario 3 is what Comcast is dreaming of.

 

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cork1958    1,134

Luckily for me, I already have the option of NOT using Verizon or AT&T, which I wouldn't do anyway!! Actually, I could use Frontier, but with them, dial up is probably just as good of an option.

 

Can't use Comcast either, so, simply because of where I live, I get Charter. That's pretty much 2 more despicable companies, but I'd take ANYONE over Verizon or AT&T!!

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adrynalyne    8,573
6 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

How cute, trying to rewrite history.

https://www.cnet.com/news/comcast-really-does-block-bittorrent-traffic-after-all/

 

Welcome to a brave new age of where your provider can  tell you how you will use the Internet.

 

To the person(s) who dislike my comment: please man up and explain why.  It’s not like anything I said was untrue. 

Edited by Andrew
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SpeedyTheSnail    869
30 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

To the person(s) who dislike my comment: please man up and explain why.  It’s not like anything I said was untrue. 

I didn't dislike the comment but I didn't like it either.

 

If you don't like what an internet service provider is doing, speak with your wallet. It's very easy in a capitalist society to choose one provider over another at least in big cities.


Here is the other option that works great: Take to social media against unethical actions of corporations. Most of these people are afraid to look bad, they don't want bad press. I hate Comcast anyway and will never use their service again. At my house I have two choices for internet: Verizon and Comcast. Guess who I chose?

 

The third option is this: Sue the company for anti-competitive practices or for becoming a monopoly in your area. Not everybody can afford a lawsuit against such a big company but I'm sure somebody out there would love to help. There are just so many ways other than having government regulation which stifles innovation every chance it gets.

 

To counter your argument to mine above in the top of this thread: What makes you think the government is doing the best for citizens? There are more cases in the United States that our government is corrupt and bends to the will of these corporations than there are of the government and its politicians trying to help Americans. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.

 

If any law exist, they should have just this one two rules: You are not allowed to block any traffic on your networks for paying customers. You do not have the right to throttle an internet connection to be any slower than your advertised speeds.

 

Deceptive advertising should also be banned: E.g.: Speeds up to xyz MBPS. It should be advertised as "Minimum of xyz MBPS" for this tier internet package.

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PsYcHoKiLLa    1,754
4 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

From what I understand, switching carrier isn't an option for quite a lot of folks in the US. Y'all's just got shafted.

No sympathy for them at all, that's what happens when you vote in people who think morals are a breakfast cereal.

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adrynalyne    8,573
23 minutes ago, SpeedyTheSnail said:

I didn't dislike the comment but I didn't like it either.

 

If you don't like what an internet service provider is doing, speak with your wallet. It's very easy in a capitalist society to choose one provider over another at least in big cities.


Here is the other option that works great: Take to social media against unethical actions of corporations. Most of these people are afraid to look bad, they don't want bad press. I hate Comcast anyway and will never use their service again. At my house I have two choices for internet: Verizon and Comcast. Guess who I chose?

 

The third option is this: Sue the company for anti-competitive practices or for becoming a monopoly in your area. Not everybody can afford a lawsuit against such a big company but I'm sure somebody out there would love to help. There are just so many ways other than having government regulation which stifles innovation every chance it gets.

 

To counter your argument to mine above in the top of this thread: What makes you think the government is doing the best for citizens? There are more cases in the United States that our government is corrupt and bends to the will of these corporations than there are of the government and its politicians trying to help Americans. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.

 

If any law exist, they should have just this one two rules: You are not allowed to block any traffic on your networks for paying customers. You do not have the right to throttle an internet connection to be any slower than your advertised speeds.

 

Deceptive advertising should also be banned: E.g.: Speeds up to xyz MBPS. It should be advertised as "Minimum of xyz MBPS" for this tier internet package.

And therein lies the problem. You can’t answer with your wallet when:

1. You need internet access. 

2. You are stuck with a single broadband provider. 

 

Many areas in the US are stuck with a single broadband provider. Heck, Comcast and Cox have divided our city amongst themselves. You don’t get a choice, where you live makes it for you.  

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+LimeMaster    15,322
3 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

No sympathy for them at all, that's what happens when you vote in people who think morals are a breakfast cereal.

I think you should sympathize because:

Spoiler

FPe3NYq.png

 

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adrynalyne    8,573
8 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

No sympathy for them at all, that's what happens when you vote in people who think morals are a breakfast cereal.

That’s ok, I have no respect for comments like this at all when I didn’t vote for those idiots yet I get to deal with the decisions made. 

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PsYcHoKiLLa    1,754
1 minute ago, LimeMaster said:

I think you should sympathize because:

  Hide contents

FPe3NYq.png

 

I didn't vote her in and I'm Scottish so she isn't even our leader.

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+LimeMaster    15,322
6 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

I didn't vote her in and I'm Scottish so she isn't even our leader.

She still has a big impact on your country. Plus, a lot of Americans didn't vote for this either.

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CrashGordon    358

I ditched AT&T long ago, but it was for other reasons.

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Astra.Xtreme    2,217

I have my doubts that any major changes will occur.  The internet wasn't a restricted mess before net neutrality, so I have a hard time believing it will magically become a mess.  There are more players in the market now, so anybody that tries to screw their customers will ultimately lose money.  People just need to settle down and get over their political blinders...

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adrynalyne    8,573
2 minutes ago, Astra.Xtreme said:

I have my doubts that any major changes will occur.  The internet wasn't a restricted mess before net neutrality, so I have a hard time believing it will magically become a mess.  There are more players in the market now, so anybody that tries to screw their customers will ultimately lose money.  People just need to settle down and get over their political blinders...

I think the real issue is we still remember what Comcast did before NN reeled them in. I don’t want my isp deciding how I use the service I pay for. There are still many areas in the US that are single broadband provider. More players only helps some areas. 

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