sanctified Veteran Posted January 26, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 26, 2004 i would like to believe that im not an overly critical or judgemental person. but so many people claim to be something they're not and end up unintentionally killing something due to poor judgement and actions. well, the human its insecure by nature, it needs a wide basis of pilars that support its existence (religion, society, ideal) this insecurity makes them to join a certain group and to deform it to its own image (god theory) I dont know where it happened but at some point a very depressive and insecure human with a lot of charisma and leadership changed the gothic deffinition, maybe because humans link "darkness", wich is just the phylosophycal and metaphysical void were all the personal answers in life are stored, to sadness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel with the scabbed wings Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 point taken. Iv got a report on the Hill reaction in photosynthesis 2 write anyway. :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I think a goth is just a person who wants to be themselfs, dress like they want, listens to whatever music they want Oh god, you crack me up. You've just described the majority of the people on the planet. Could you be any more vague? Hell, I want to be myself, I dress how I like to dress, and I listen to music that I want to listen to. But wait...I'm no goth...golly gee. At this point, the New Radicals lyric comes to mind: So original in her black lipstick Listening to some obscure band But isn't she ****ed at all the other non-conformists who listen to that same obscure band If all the non-conformists act the same way...are they truly non-conformists? On another note, this thread started on a bad note. When someone asks, "What is goth"...OF COURSE YOU'RE GONNA GET THE STEREOTYPICAL 'GOTH' IMAGERY!!!! Duh. Does every self-proclaimed 'goth' dress all in black, wear all that makeup, do the whole 'wickken' thing...of course not, but every genre of people has a sterotype. So those of you 'goths' who are ****ed by the responses people are posting...either deal with it or don't call yourself goth anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best_uv_d_best Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 well it's a shame because Goth should represent it's old original values of romance, prestige, culture, etc... not the mass murders @ Columbine, which is the image most people associate the the name Goth or Gothic due to people misshaping it's name. It's sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunknMunky Veteran Posted January 26, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 26, 2004 Oh god, you crack me up. You've just described the majority of the people on the planet. Could you be any more vague? If you read my posts later you would see I wasnt so vague ;) :rolleyes: Edit: this thread has got out of hand now, with so many people bashing goths saying the most stupid things ever "heh their all pots smokers, dont have a chance in life, gonna get a crap job when their older" etc etc, I didnt know there was so many people who could tell the future at Neowin :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 26, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 26, 2004 well it's a shame because Goth should represent it's old original values of romance, prestige, culture, etc... not the mass murders @ Columbine, which is the image most people associate the the name Goth or Gothic due to people misshaping it's name. It's sad but true. but in the other hand (and here Im thinking not just like a goth but like me) who cares about the people's missconception? their eyes are not the rules were the goths meassure themselves. I dont wear all black, but red, white and black, always a combination of the 3 or just 2 (with black always present) people keep staring at me, and I dont care, because Im happy, because I laugh at them seeing how they try to understand something that they cant understand, like life itself, oh boy... life is great!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabatic Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 but rather the millions of people aimlessly dressing up like a cross between dead bodies and military personnel whom act depressing and hateful in order to recieve attention that i assume they lacked as small children.Do not wander the world attempting to represent something you are not, but rather just be yourself and be happy, and applaud yourself if you get the classification that i can say you deserve. Wow!!! somebody is inspired !!! :woot: and yet you focus on a problem that is current not only to goth but also to the other urban movements (rappers, gangs, and so on.....) : the copycats, those who feel the need to just fit in a group, wether they indentify with it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 In my personal experience I find that many teenage girls try to be different and so become goth... they tend to think they are different and claim that people don't understand them - some of them have had bad childhoods where they were beaten - they "tend" to listen to music considered as gothic/satanic (e.g. Marilyn Manson, HIM, Cradle Of Filth)... and then they go and destroy and slight aspect of respect you had for them by wearing t-shirts saying "You laugh at me because I'm different - I laugh at you because you're all the same"; it's funny how ironic that t-shirt is. I have found from my college that the people there that are goths are all very similar (with their long leather trenchcoats) - they form their own little group that does not hang around with other people; they also smoke a lot. I have met some HORRIBLE goths who are uncaring, that make friends with younger girls because the young people think they are "unique" and then have sex with people as young as 12 before moving on immediately after and crushing them. And these people [that i have met - NOT goths in general] are not particularly intelligent. That is NOT stereotypical of a goth though... that is just part of my experience with them. I find that there is a sub-group of people with a semi-goth style that are the most reasonable people - they can wear black clothes, Marilyn Manson t-shirts, have piercings and wearing colourful of ellaborate tights, tend to have black or red hair, etc. I personally have worn black clothes, dyed my hair black, worn multi-colour tights, Marilyn Manson t-shirts and worn black lipstick - these are things considered to be stereotypical goth. But the reason "I" choose to do so is to get attention - I'm not original, I'm not even trying to be that, but I find it makes it easier for me to talk to people. PS - I pity Evanesence and their fans - there was a lovely interview with them where they said people misinterpretted them and that they weren't goth at all... only to walk out in black clothes, pale faces, onto a stage laid out with candles and typical goth stylings. PPS - I don't like arguements... they make me stressed because people pick apart every little thing :( - I am not dissing goths as such, just a lot of the wannabes who do it to be kewl but say they are doing it to be different... i have all respect for people who know they are doing it for attention and don't set out to pretend they're not. Oh dear, I don't want to be flamed :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgramma Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 [saint dark] you are amazin'! Your comments are almost what explains me (guess that makes me a goth eh? :laugh: ) Anyways, yeah. I hated the definition of goth in the first place, because I read about the real lifestyle and beliefs after I learned that goths were worshipping satan. Strangely, and this might be contributed to alot of my friends being female, but goths really intregue me. It's interesting how, normally (what is normal? :blink: ) society would pass off gothic fashion and lifestyle as ugly or grotesque, I'm quite attracted to it. It's a beauty I can't really explain the way I explain most attractions I write in poetry, I have a couple poems on some of the darker moments I've been through, though. Yeah, perfect man. You rock! :D Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 26, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 26, 2004 I read about the real lifestyle and beliefs after I learned that goths were worshipping satan. thats a sad stereotype, yeah, some goths worship satan, is the same with the rest of the non-gothic world, personally I think thathe phylosophycal nature of most of them guides them to find their true belief, I went trough satanism (yes I accept it, I though I was satanic, LaVey School, but hey, I was just searching for myself), atheistic (my religious angst period) and now, agnostic, with a lot of self phylosophy and self theories, specially about methaphysics and sacred math and geometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 26, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 26, 2004 Oh dear, I don't want to be flamed :no: Im not going to flame you, is your personall experience, but just a warn, if a goth see that you hace called manson a goth he is going to kill you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Goths don't worship Satan ... infact most things Gothic portray a fear (mixed with an interest to be sure, but a fear non the less) of things like death, the afterlife, judgement, etc. I'd say most people who are truly Gothic don't want to be in the dark, so much as darkness is just another way of seeing the light. And, SD: I dont know where it happened but at some point a very depressive and insecure human with a lot of charisma and leadership changed the gothic deffinition, That's just an oxymoron. The main problem with the modern idea of Gothic being changed is that the people who pretend to subscribe to that method of thought are atracted to the ideas of melancholy and superstition, among other things. The leaders of any Gothic movement can see past that to its more philosophical, or at least social meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 That's just an oxymoron. well, since life itself is a poem, oxymorons are valid ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeKess Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 emo bitch losers with makeup who hate everything in life, oh look at me i ware a trench coat i ware all black , please pity me im an attention ###### and im deprived of everything My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 My thoughts exactly. I hope that you guys, someday, can look beyond a puny stereotype and know people as a general :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeKess Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 My friend, stereotypes abound. You'll never find a world without them, so just get used to them. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 My friend, stereotypes abound. You'll never find a world without them, so just get used to them. :) oh, Im not denying them, I dont know where you took that idea, the key is not to follow that stereotype, because the common missconception, and that happens in every culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeKess Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Stereotypes exist because that's how a majority of the people who are stereotyped act. I know there's no real definition to 'goth' so the stereotype is the closest you'll get to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 Stereotypes exist because that's how a majority of the people who are stereotyped act. I know there's no real definition to 'goth' so the stereotype is the closest you'll get to one. no, thats were you are wrong, stereotypes exist because general missconceptions, urban legends and mass ignorance, maybe you life experience have taugh you that goths are like that, and I partially agree, the new wave of goths are just... waste, but those who understand that gothic is not a movement but an aesthetic, those are diferents, the problem with stereotypes is that its applied to everyone, me for example, im not a goth, but people often call me in that way and thats a pityt too, a fine example of human ignorance and fear to see beyond the book paste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeKess Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ,Jan 26 2004, 19:37] the new wave of goths are just... waste Oh trust me, I know. I'm a junior in high school. Every 'goth' I meet is like the 'stereotype' I described. Hey, this is personal opinion, and that's mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 Hey, this is personal opinion, and that's mine. and I respect that and Idont deny it, Im just asking to not generalize, thats all :) its like saying that all rappers are thugs or bling bling (and believe me 90% of the local ones are like that but I know that not everyone is like that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linsook Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ,Jan 26 2004, 20:37] no, thats were you are wrong, stereotypes exist because general missconceptions, urban legends and mass ignorance, maybe you life experience have taugh you that goths are like that, and I partially agree, the new wave of goths are just... waste, but those who understand that gothic is not a movement but an aesthetic, those are diferents, the problem with stereotypes is that its applied to everyone, me for example, im not a goth, but people often call me in that way and thats a pityt too, a fine example of human ignorance and fear to see beyond the book paste. offtopic: stereotypes go way deeper into how our minds operate. we as humans cant help but to stereotype, it helps us remember, identify and catergorize things, people and places... its how we operate, and that is never going to change. yes, general misconeptions can play a part in stereotypical views but again, its our nature to stereotype. if a person says they have never stereotyped something ever is either a fool or insane. stereotypes often confine groups of people but the irony of it all is that the one being a stereotype becomes a prisoner of it. categorizing others inturn puts themself into a particular group aswell and they start becoming and playing the role of a particular stereotype. we're human... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 offtopic: stereotypes go way deeper into how our minds operate. we as humans cant help but to stereotype, it helps us remember, identify and catergorize things, people and places... its how we operate, and that is never going to change. yes, general misconeptions can play a part in stereotypical views but again, its our nature to stereotype. if a person says they have never stereotyped something ever is either a fool or insane. stereotypes often confine groups of people but the irony of it all is that the one being a stereotype becomes a prisoner of it. categorizing others inturn puts themself into a particular group aswell and they start becoming and playing the role of a particular stereotype.we're human... while Im not denying the human nature of stereotypes you are talking about them like they were metal walls that cannot be teared apart by self-experience and a mature social-concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linsook Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) and infact i am... its how we are, its how it is. let me ask you a question. do you have a perception of who you are? edit: the thing about stereotypes, they do not necessarily have a negative affect on how you interact with others. you may have a particular view of a person but that doesnt mean it impedes your relationship with them but you cannot deny you make a stereotype. they need not be bad but they do exist in everyone. lets not look at is as a barrier of sorts but an intergral part of how we think Edited January 27, 2004 by linsook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 let me ask you a question. do you have a perception of who you are? I have very clear my perception and conception of who and what I am, why the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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