linsook Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 how do we perceive? we gather information to experience to giving meanings to attribute motives and intentions to form impressions to learn about self, others and the world. a perception = selecting, organizing and interpreting perceptions influenced by an individual's unique values, goals, itnerests, beliefs, wants, education etc... anyways what im trying to say is a perception is a form of stereotype, it is how we see ourselves and how we like others to view us as. you percieve yourself as such and therefore create a stereotype for yourself. ie: people that are like me, people that i am like. this is again back to perceptions influenced by an individual's unique etc... which are all influenced by others. you may not agree with me or i have made no sense at all... but, and i am assuming, you see yourself as someone different from the rest... on a tangent path different from others, you are you own person and no one is like you and your are like no one else. but how many others feel the same as you? you become this stereotype of the lone ranger making your own path. and this is how we become our own stereotypes. lol am i sounding like an idiot and making no sense? please tell me if i am cause this is i guess more or less a personal opinion and it is not totally fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Hotsausage Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 since most people who are gothic wear black, it is associated with gothic people. then you have the sad teens who pose and wear black, because they want attention and they like it when people look at them. you got these bands cradle of filth, etc, again there all clothes. then you have the intelligent ones, who actually care about the culture, and "roots" if you would call it. they dont force it, its just how they are and they like it. basically i think there are many forms of gothic people, you will always have the posers. its just like punk music, gone out of control. the defintion of punk has lost its meaning. most people see these punk bands on tv and go "all punk must be like sum 41" which is exactly what happens with gothic people. im not gothic, but this is just my opinion of the culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 how do we perceive? we gather information to experience to giving meanings to attribute motives and intentions to form impressions to learn about self, others and the world.a perception = selecting, organizing and interpreting perceptions influenced by an individual's unique values, goals, itnerests, beliefs, wants, education etc... anyways what im trying to say is a perception is a form of stereotype, it is how we see ourselves and how we like others to view us as. you percieve yourself as such and therefore create a stereotype for yourself. ie: people that are like me, people that i am like. this is again back to perceptions influenced by an individual's unique etc... which are all influenced by others. you may not agree with me or i have made no sense at all... but, and i am assuming, you see yourself as someone different from the rest... on a tangent path different from others, you are you own person and no one is like you and your are like no one else. but how many others feel the same as you? you become this stereotype of the lone ranger making your own path. and this is how we become our own stereotypes. lol am i sounding like an idiot and making no sense? please tell me if i am cause this is i guess more or less a personal opinion and it is not totally fact. no no, I see your point, but I think that you lost the path of "plain stereotypes" and confused them with "universal terms" I think that stereotipes is a whole chain of given attributes to certain group or individual, like you said, is the human nature of clasifying, universal terms are, in a very minor scale, just aislated terms, for example, like you said, a lone ranger. I see myself as myself, agreed, but I think that everyone think the same way, and they are not wrong, but at the same time we cant apply the "lone ranger" term to everyone (Im making sense this far?) humans have this need to classify things and put them in a mental shelf, thats is a human instinc and cant be denied, what can be avoided is to know that that initial stereotype is not, by logic, an universal term, because it cant be applied to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gawdflesh Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Courtesy of the main posters "What is a Goth" portion of his website; To emulate something strongly implies that the action is neither original, nor genuine. That is just not Goth. What I find interesting is that he looks like 95% of the "goth" kids I see. And the actual "What is a Goth" portion itself is merely something he copied from another site, and, by his own admission, altered slightly to make it relevant to himself. So...by definition, he is not Goth? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linsook Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 hehe anyways, i think i have gone off topic and i can go on, but point taken saint dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 hehe anyways, i think i have gone off topic and i can go on, but point taken saint dark. still I want to see your opinion about what I said :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear the Pandaz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ...Conformist ******s... Suffer the pain of unfathomable sadness. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 ...Conformist ******s...Suffer the pain of unfathomable sadness. Haha. now that was inteligent and mature, thanks :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dragon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Really quick question - [sd], is english your primary language? Err... Maybe primary isn't the right word... Was it the first language you were taught? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 Really quick question - [sd], is english your primary language? Err... Maybe primary isn't the right word... Was it the first language you were taught? spanish is my mother-language I know I know, my english sucks... :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dragon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ,Jan 26 2004, 19:40] spanish is my mother-languageI know I know, my english sucks...?:blush:: No, it's not that... In fact, the exact opposite. I was just thinking - I remember that your original website was spanish, which led me to believe that spanish was your first language (I guess I was right) and I was thinking "Damn... You're extremely well spoken for someone who's first language isn't english." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gawdflesh Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ,Jan 27 2004, 02:40] spanish is my mother-languageI know I know, my english sucks... :blush: At least you use it coherently, and with an easily-concieved meaning. I've seen a lot worse, from those whom English is their native language, so I wouldn't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dragon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Back to the matter at hand - At first I was in agreement with saint dark, but then I began to see something. You believe yourself to be someone who can judge not through attributed actions, but through experience and, of course as linsook said, perceptions. You don't believe perceptions to be a form of stereotype unto themselves but almost as a catalyst through which stereotypes can be formed, am I correct? But, the aforementioned stereotypes are, in fact, a compilation of perceptions of a group of people through other. Now here's the kinda tricky part - you see the way you think, judging by your perceptions, to be a unique form of thinking. You believe this because of the way you have experienced what you think and what you do, but, these things are the very same things that, percieved by other people, have led you to be labeled you with a sterotype. Am I the only one that sees the problem? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 Back to the matter at hand - At first I was in agreement with saint dark, but then I began to see something. You believe yourself to be someone who can judge not through attributed actions, but through experience and, of course as linsook said, perceptions. You don't believe perceptions to be a form of stereotype unto themselves but almost as a catalyst through which stereotypes can be formed, am I correct? But, the aforementioned stereotypes are, in fact, a compilation of perceptions of a group of people through other. Now here's the kinda tricky part - you see the way you think, judging by your perceptions, to be a unique form of thinking. You believe this because of the way you have experienced what you think and what you do, but, these things are the very same things that, percieved by other people, have led you to be labeled you with a sterotype. Am I the only one that sees the problem? :/ agreed, but perceptions can be applied individualy, not to a whole group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dragon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ,Jan 26 2004, 20:06] agreed, but perceptions can be applied individualy, not to a whole group Exactly, but it's the perceptions of the group, and not the individual that lead to the stereotypes... I wasn't saying you're wrong in what you posted, I was just pointing out the fact that you almost contradict yourself (Socratic method? :p) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ,Jan 26 2004, 19:16] well, since life itself is a poem, oxymorons are valid ;) Life is prose!!! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 Life is prose!!! :laugh: and poems can be written in prose :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 Exactly, but it's the perceptions of the group, and not the individual that lead to the stereotypes... I wasn't saying you're wrong in what you posted, I was just pointing out the fact that you almost contradict yourself (Socratic method? :p) well, maybe it seems that I contradicted myself since I have not declared my position about individual terms, so here is it, stereotypes can be avoided applying your perceptions to individuals, not to groups, since every group is made first of individuals wich common facts are that they are different by nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkinzer Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) ^---- Dude in [saint dark]'s Avatar. :) Generally he/she: Has black hair, piercings, tattoos, wears all black clothes. Often wears black eye shadow and/or lipstick. Sometimes has fake nails (and/or painted nails), a black cape, and black army-esque boots. Usually writes dreary poetry or creates depressing art. Likes other people's depressing poetry and art. Is antisocial and/or anti-society. Doesn't really fit in with everyone else; doesn't want to be a "follower." But that's my view as an outsider to the goth culture... Edited January 27, 2004 by jkinzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+virtorio MVC Posted January 27, 2004 MVC Share Posted January 27, 2004 I don't see why so many people are so interested in this subject (the fact this thread reached 11 pages in under 24 hours is quite a lot). I don't really consider myself a "goth" (I don't really consider myself anything, just me), but if I look at myself (the music I listen to, the way I dress among other things I am going to get into) I can see why lots of people might. I have been the receiver of quite a lot of abuse from lots of people because of this. It would seem people are afraid (or obsessed) of people who don't quite fit into the "general public" in terms of appearance. But wait, "goths" are no different than anybody else, we are all people, with their own idea's. The same way a "rapper" is no different than a "rocker" (different music, different clothes but still human). I don't mean to stereo type people here, but lots of people do that with me. I don't see why people's lifestyles concern people so much. Wouldn't the world be so much easier if we all looked, dressed and acted in exactly the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dragon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 well, maybe it seems that I contradicted myself since I have not declared my position about individual terms, so here is it, stereotypes can be avoided applying your perceptions to individuals, not to groups, since every group is made first of individuals wich common facts are that they are different by nature So wait... You don't believe that stereotypes are created through perception of individuals as well as groups? Well sir... I disagree. :happy: [Edit]Hmm... wrong smilie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 So wait... You don't believe that stereotypes are created through perception of individuals as well as groups? Well sir... I disagree. :shifty: I think that once the perception is applied to a group humans forgot about the individuality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dragon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ,Jan 26 2004, 20:36] I think that once the perception is applied to a group humans forgot about the individuality But I believe that the stereotype can be created through the perception of individuals before being applied to groups, which would mean that the perceptions based on the individuals are the stereotype. One thing I will say, though, is that as people change, the stereotype doesn't - which is why it is how it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted January 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 27, 2004 But I believe that the stereotype can be created through the perception of individuals before being applied to groups, which would mean that the perceptions based on the individuals are the stereotype. well, lets say that I dont deny that that can happen, but then I think is as worse as the other one, you cant describe a group mentallity by studying just one subject and as a consecuence you cant apply the group mentallity to an individual since it doesnt matter how similar are the ideologies on a group, all of the are different in a different way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkinzer Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I don't see why people's lifestyles concern people so much. Wouldn't the world be so much easier if we all looked, dressed and acted in exactly the same way. I haven't read the entire thread (it's long), but has anyone really talked bad about goths? If not, then there is nothing wrong with stereotyping a group. After all, we aren't saying that you're all the same... we're just making the distinction that your particular lifestyle makes you fall into a different mold than "rocker" or "rapper." I mean, most of us would admit that we fall in the category of "nerd" (at least I don't mind), in the view of general society. So why is it so bad to be a "goth?" Oh, and I do think that stereotypes DO evolve with the people that are stereotyped. Today's "hippy" is not exactly the same as the 70's "hippy." The world would be boring if we didn't have hippies, rockers, rappers, goths, etc. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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