At least 17 dead in Florida school shooting, law enforcement says

[+Warwagon MVC]

15 minutes ago, DocM said:

 

Oh, CRAP!....it wasn't the YouTube video 

 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-statement-on-the-shooting-in-parkland-florida

 

So now they had 2 separate reports of the same person to the FBI regarding a potential school shooting.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

43 minutes ago, techbeck said:

 Occasional arguments ending in fists flying.

This could be it.

 

They don't fist fight anymore and wussies bring guns to school instead.

Quote

Tyler Durden: [1:10:11] Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy ###### we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very ###### off.

 

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

Quote

 

PATRICK J. BUCHANAN: The Motives Behind the Massacre

 

While this massacre may be a product of mental illness, it is surely a product of moral depravity.

 

...

 

...the perpetrators are nobodies who wish to die as somebodies...

 

...Infamy is their shortcut to immortality...

 

...Another factor helps to explain what happened Wednesday: We are a formerly Christian society in an advanced state of decomposition...

 

 

[DocM]

2 hours ago, techbeck said:

^^

incompetence at its finest.

He was a walking, talking nuke and wasn't concealing it.  What did he have to do, advertise the shooting as a PPV?

[techbeck]

57 minutes ago, DocM said:

He was a walking, talking nuke and wasn't concealing it.  What did he have to do, advertise the shooting as a PPV?

Needed to take an ad out in the Penny Saver...and that comment just made me feel old.

[jnelsoninjax]

T

Taken from: https://twitter.com/PiaGuerra/status/964239386131906561/photo/1

Feis was the coach who protected the students from the gunman and paid the ultimate price.

[DocM]

Jeezzzz....

 

https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/school-shooters-brother-committed-to-mental-facility/

 

Quote

 

School shooter’s brother committed to mental facility

 

The younger brother of deranged school shooter Nikolas Cruz was committed to a mental health facility, according to reports.

 

Authorities removed someone Friday from the home of Rocxanne Deschamps, a longtime family friend of the Cruz brothers who took them in after their adoptive mother died of pneumonia in November, The Palm Beach Post reported.

 

A friend of Deschamps confirmed Zachary Cruz, who turns 18 next week, was the person removed from the home.

>

 

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by DocM

[ThaCrip]

On 2/14/2018 at 9:23 PM, Mockingbird said:

Gun culture and Republicans' unwillingness to do anything beside offering useless prayers for the dead.

 

It's better than banning guns outright like the democrats want to do. democrats are anti-second amendment even though they would never admit it.

 

basically... guns are not the problem, people are the problem. clearly something changed in the culture to get people to do this stuff in the first place. people need to find the root cause of this stuff and start changing things there.

 

at the end of the day... more gun restrictions will end up doing nothing but penalizing the legit users. I think what Sean Hannity said is something worth looking into with a retired police etc at every school (like bigger schools should have more police there and smaller schools have less). that won't eliminate the school shooting problem but it's better than doing nothing as it might deter people from attempting the shooting or if the shooting does occur it might help limit the death count.

[DocM]

On 2/15/2018 at 2:32 PM, ncoday said:

You have armed guards at your schools?

 

I know you have armed guards protecting the Queen and I am sure the PM also has armed guards.

 

In the district where my wife teaches there's a School Resource Officer (SRO) in each building. In her building, a high school, the SRO is one of the most popular staff members among the kids.

 

Besides being there if law enforcement is needed they also do community outreach, are involved in conflict counseling, and most often perform a 'big brother' role and take part in various activities. 

 

And if worse comes to worse, there's a locked cabinet with whatever he/she needs.

 

 

[Morisato]

10 hours ago, jnelsoninjax said:

T

Taken from: https://twitter.com/PiaGuerra/status/964239386131906561/photo/1

Feis was the coach who protected the students from the gunman and paid the ultimate price.

Good thing the little girl mentioned the guys name else I would've thought "Oh Sh**! There goes Harvey Weinstein again"

 

In other news:

-Nikolas is willing to plead guilty to avoid death penalty.

-Zachary Cruz, who turns 18 next week, held involuntarily for up to 12 hours for an involuntary psychiatric exam. Got sent to a mental facility.

 

I also noticed he wore a Trump hat in one of his instagram photos. There were false reports stating him as a registered democrat which proved false due to the incorrect name of Nicholas Cruz instead of Nikolas. All in all, so many red flags, law enforcement and others were warned, nothing was really done until as usual it was too late.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/exclusive-school-shooter-instagram-group/index.html

Edited February 18, 2018 by Morisato

[SecretAgentMan]

58 minutes ago, ThaCrip said:

 

It's better than banning guns outright like the democrats want to do. democrats are anti-second amendment even though they would never admit it. 

 

It is actually not better to just offer prayers and the Democrats don't want to ban all guns.  Stop drinking Hannity's Kool-aid. 

 

It is just about common sense and getting the guns out of the hands of the unstable people and to make it tougher for criminals to get them.  Nobody "needs" military weapons, handguns and shotguns are fine.

 

This would not be a quick fix.  It would probably take a good 20+ years to remove most of the unnecessary weapons from society.

 

[DocM]

52 minutes ago, SecretAgentMan said:

>

It is just about common sense and getting the guns out of the hands of the unstable people and to make it tougher for criminals to get them.  Nobody "needs" military weapons, handguns and shotguns are fine.

>

 

Spoken like someone who knows zero about firearms or firearms death patterns.

 

1: of the 8,500 or so firearms murders each year only about 400 or so are by a rifle of any kind. Most are not by the use of a semi-auto AR, AK or whatever.

 

2: the shotguns you say are OK are actually far more lethal, especially when used against groups. A standard 12 gauge shotgun shell can launch up to 21 #4 buckshot, which are .240 caliber. More in a magnum. Use a slug (solid bullet) and one may go through several people before being stopped.

 

3: Handguns actually kill many more people.

 

4: 1994-2003 there was an assault weapons ban and its effect was spotty at best. In the study An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003 it was found that shooters simply used larger magazines, or more of them,  in other weapons.

 

Extending, or making, a magazine is relatively  easy in pistols given basic metal shop skills.  

 

Example

 

 

[DevTech]

10 minutes ago, SecretAgentMan said:

It is actually not better to just offer prayers and the Democrats don't want to ban all guns.  Stop drinking Hannity's Kool-aid. 

 

It is just about common sense and getting the guns out of the hands of the unstable people and to make it tougher for criminals to get them.  Nobody "needs" military weapons, handguns and shotguns are fine.

 

This would not be a quick fix.  It would probably take a good 20+ years to remove most of the unnecessary weapons from society.

 

Everyone here should be able to agree with you that there is no quick fix, otherwise a problem everyone agrees is gravely serious would have been solved by now.

 

So, for any spark of a creative idea to come forth, perhaps it would be useful to eliminate discussion on things we know don't work. 

 

What DOES NOT WORK:

 

1. Anything tried in the last 20 years. Don't bring it up again. Don't talk about it. Save mental space for something new.

 

2. Anything mentioned on Fox News. It is ridiculous to consider for a millisecond that the NRA will have a useful idea to contribute.

 

3. Any other vehicles for the NRA.

 

4. Any mention of Gun Control that starts and ends with Gun Control.

 

5. Clearly it is 100% a mental health issue by definition. But instead of meaning mental health when the words mental health are waved around, it becomes a code word for gun control background checks and throwing potential crazy people into a crazy-people prison know as a sanitarium or whatever. This does not work because there is no "health" being considered.

 

6. Bonus idea: any kid anywhere in the U.S. that has gone to a high school knows what a brutal soul destroying environment it is.

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

8 hours ago, DocM said:

 

Spoken like someone who knows zero about firearms or firearms death patterns.

 

1: of the 8,500 or so firearms murders each year only about 400 or so are by a rifle of any kind. Most are not by the use of a semi-auto AR, AK or whatever.

 

2: the shotguns you say are OK are actually far more lethal, especially when used against groups. A standard 12 gauge shotgun shell can launch up to 21 #4 buckshot, which are .240 caliber. More in a magnum. Use a slug (solid bullet) and one may go through several people before being stopped.

 

3: Handguns actually kill many more people.

 

4: 1994-2003 there was an assault weapons ban and its effect was spotty at best. In the study An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003 it was found that shooters simply used larger magazines, or more of them,  in other weapons.

 

Extending, or making, a magazine is relatively  easy in pistols given basic metal shop skills.  

 

Example

 

 

Spoken like someone desperate to find any reason at all to keep their lover guns close at hand... Y'know.. Just in case the British come back and try to recapture the colonies (clue: we don't want you)...

[SecretAgentMan]

8 hours ago, DocM said:

Spoken like someone who knows zero about firearms or firearms death patterns.

I know enough about firearms but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is happening in our country.  We don't need anything more than handguns for home protection and shotguns or rifles for hunting.  No need for automatic or semi-automatic weaponry like the AR-15.

 

You always deflect or have an excuse for everything.

[FloatingFatMan]

8 minutes ago, SecretAgentMan said:

I know enough about firearms but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is happening in our country.  We don't need anything more than handguns for home protection and shotguns or rifles for hunting.  No need for automatic or semi-automatic weaponry like the AR-15.

 

You always deflect or have an excuse for everything.

Who wants to bet he'll reply saying an AR15 IS a rifle for hunting?

 

Hunting what? People?   Why do people need to hunt anyway? Does it in some way validate your masculinity to go out and shoot animals to stick on your wall or for lunch?  If you're hungry, go to the goddam supermarket like everyone else does...  If you want an animals decapiated head on your wall, go see a shrink as you're obviously sick.

[DocM]

3 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Who wants to bet he'll reply saying an AR15 IS a rifle for hunting?

 

Hunting what? People?   

 

The term for AK, AR, SK etc. is MSR, Modern Sporting Rifle, and about 27% of US hunters surveyed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation have used one.

 

People use AR-15's to hunt deer and other large, medium and small game because they have better inclement weather resistance, and are lighter to carry when traipsing through backcountry. 

 

This is possible because of AR-15's being a convert-a-gun, able to use  conversion kits so they can shoot alternative calibers including the ubiquitous .22 Long Rifle. Even the base 5.56 NATO round is used for hunting, especially in its .223 Remington variant which has been used for small game since the 1960's. This makes them very popular.  

 

They're also pretty accurate, which is why they're used for match shooting.

Edited February 18, 2018 by DocM

[FloatingFatMan]

Ah, there we go. Knew it wouldn't be long. Thanks for being predictable, Doc!

 

[SecretAgentMan]

3 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Ah, there we go. Knew it wouldn't be long. Thanks for being predictable, Doc!

 

Well ya know them thar gun toters luv their guns!!!

 

 

[theyarecomingforyou]

47 minutes ago, DocM said:

The term for AK, AR, SK etc. is MSR, Modern Sporting Rifle, and about 27% of US hunters surveyed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation have used one.

It's cute trying to rebrand weapons designed to kill and maim but it doesn't change anything. The second amendment has NOTHING to do with recreational activities, like hunting - it relates to well-regulated militia (i.e. self-defence). People like yourself have hijacked the US Constitution to push their own political agenda, one which is costing tens of thousands of lives each year.

 

If you think your right to use firearms to hunt comes before the right of children not to be brutally murdered then I suggest to you that your priorities in life are seriously perverse.

[DocM]

25 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

It's cute trying to rebrand weapons designed to kill and maim but it doesn't change anything. The second amendment has NOTHING to do with recreational activities, like hunting - it relates to well-regulated militia (i.e. self-defence). 

>

 

You're correct, the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting because hunting isn't addressed in the Constitution. As such, under the 10th Amendment, regulating hunting is largely a State function except as regards migratory waterfowl which are writing into federal law.

 

Since the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, what is it for? Based on he Constitution, SCOTUS decisions and the writings of the framers,

 

1) self defense from miscreant others, a use which an AR or other MSR is designed for.

 

2) resisting a government which is acting against the people. See #1.

 

That said, the 14th Amendment requires Equal Protection, and in the Heller and McDonald SCOTUS decisions there's a foothold for other gun rights - a person in a municipality should have the same rights as those in another. Just ask the local governments of DC and Chicago, whose restrictive gun laws were overturned.

 

T. Jefferson on revolution,

 

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. [even]  Unsuccessful rebellions indeed generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."

~~Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787

Edited February 18, 2018 by DocM

[Rohdekill]

On 2/15/2018 at 1:11 PM, FloatingFatMan said:

*sigh* I really wish you folks would stop using the stupid car analogies to excuse your love of guns.

 

A gun is designed to kill things.

A car is designed to transport people and property from one place to another.

 

The two are not analogous in any way, shape or form.

 

If you want to own a gun, knock yourself out.

A knife, gun, vehicle, bomb, or just about any object in the hands of a perfectly sane person makes the "what it is designed for" argument  meaningless and pointless.

What something is designed to do has zero influence if the person wielding the object has the intention to do harm.

 

Some deranged person wielding two kitchen knives (not designed for killing) could have inflicted the same amount of damage.

It's not the object used that is to blame, even if the object is more efficient/effective at generating damage.

 

[DocM]

^^  exactly. Someone with an internet connection for info and the right mix of  household or garage chemicals, or a big enough truck, could have killed as many or more. 

 

In Michigan's 1927 Bath School disaster 38 kids and 6 adults were killed by a bomber. 58 injured. 

 

Killers gonna kill. Being cold about it;  bombs are easier/cheaper, and it's likely more would survive a shooting incident than a well timed bombing. No need to move these nuts to using more efficient methods.

Edited February 18, 2018 by DocM

[theyarecomingforyou]

4 hours ago, DocM said:

You're correct, the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting because hunting isn't addressed in the Constitution. As such, under the 10th Amendment, regulating hunting is largely a State function except as regards migratory waterfowl which are writing into federal law.

 

Since the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, what is it for? Based on he Constitution, SCOTUS decisions and the writings of the framers,

 

1) self defense from miscreant others, a use which an AR or other MSR is designed for.

My point is to stop pretending that firearms are designed for anything other than killing and maiming people. Afterall, that's explicitly what the second amendment protects - firearms for defence. Using the second amendment to defend hunting weapons is a gross misappropriation and branding them as 'Sports Hunting Accessories' or any other such malarkey is utterly disingenuous. They are designed to kill and no-one should be surprised when they are used for that purpose. Unless sensible restrictions are put in place tragedies like this will continue to occur.

4 hours ago, DocM said:

2) resisting a government which is acting against the people. See #1.

You keep telling yourself that. I'm sure handguns and a sports rifles are going to be real effective against military drones, cruise missiles and armoured tanks.

 

The victims should be remembered by putting measures in place to prevent events like this from ever occurring again, not by rocking back-and-forth in the fetal position chanting 'thoughts and prayers'.

[exotoxic]

4 hours ago, DocM said:

2) resisting a government which is acting against the people. See #1.

You would get steam rolled.