Russian spy: Sergei Skripal collapsed alongside daughter

[DocM]

51 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Surely whoever delivered it would have been affected too?  I mean, people would have noticed someone walking around in a BNC suit!

 

Not necessarily. Depends on the toxin. When Kim's brother was killed by 2 female assassins they washed their hands after administering VX. Both survived.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

On 3/6/2018 at 6:31 AM, Mirumir said:

All the traitors and double agents will collapse one day.

 

It's a risk they took upon themselves when they 1) first enlisted and then 2) decided to switch sides.

 

The man is lucky that Russia has a moratorium on death penalty and that he had a chance to spend a portion of his retirement in England following his release from a Russian prison.

 

A person convicted of high treason in the U.S. would've been executed. And this guy revealed the identities of several Russian spies, putting their lives at risk.

 

Have no sympathy for him at all.

Nope, only one has ever been convicted and executed.

 

William Bruce Mumford, convicted of treason and hanged in 1862 for tearing down a United States flag during the American Civil War.

[boo_star]

On 06/03/2018 at 6:19 PM, Mirumir said:

The thing is, if his former Russian superiors wanted him dead, they woulda killed him in the Russian prison while he was doing the time there. This woulda been a much simpler job.

It makes a lot more sense to let him go free and then kill him than just killing him when he’s in custody.

 

Aside from the plausible deniability aspect it sends a strong message to any traitors that seek safe harbour in other countries.  “We will find you and we will kill you regardless of what “they” promise you.”

[FloatingFatMan]

3 minutes ago, boo_star said:

It makes a lot more sense to let him go free and then kill him than just killing him when he’s in custody.

 

Aside from the plausible deniability aspect it sends a strong message to any traitors that seek safe harbour in other countries.  “We will find you and we will kill you regardless of what “they” promise you.”

One of the victims friends was talking on TV last night and what he was saying makes a lot of sense.   It's not the government (after all, they could have killed him much more easily when in their custody), it's far more likely to be organised criminal gangs. Apparently doing something like this takes the attention of the government away from whatever they're getting up to back home, making ANY former Russian official in the West a target...

[DocM]

1 hour ago, FloatingFatMan said:

>

 It's not the government (after all, they could have killed him much more easily when in their custody), it's far more likely to be organised criminal gangs.

>

In the Russian kleptocracy, that's a distinction without a difference.

[FloatingFatMan]

2 minutes ago, DocM said:

In the Russian kleptocracy, that's a distinction without a difference.

I doubt they're any more criminal than the US government.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

51 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

I doubt they're any more criminal than the US government.

Or the British or French or German or any other country for that matter.   Why stop at the US?    

[FloatingFatMan]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

Or the British or French or German or any other country for that matter.   Why stop at the US?    

Well, the UK is more the US's crony in that regards...  Who can ever forget Bush's "Yo, Blair!" shoutout?

 

George's little biatch...

 

[FloatingFatMan]

So, the nerve agent has been identified as Novichock, a Russian developed substance.  The UK government has now demanded that the Russians explain themselves. Either they had a hand in this attack, or they've lost control of their supplies of this chemical weapon,

[Mando]

On 3/7/2018 at 7:44 PM, Circaflex said:

Come on Denis, that is the second time I’ve seen you use the the MVC cop-out. 

i let it wash all over me, its all he has as he cant answer, the post was neither flame bait or to provoke a reaction, I stated a fact.

[DocM]

On 3/13/2018 at 3:31 AM, FloatingFatMan said:

So, the nerve agent has been identified as Novichock, a Russian developed substance.  The UK government has now demanded that the Russians explain themselves. Either they had a hand in this attack, or they've lost control of their supplies of this chemical weapon,

 

BBC story

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43377698

 

And the US has charged them with electoral and infrastructure cyberattacks, applying more sanctions

 

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm0312

 

 

[Dick Montage]

I do have to ask... Identified by the UK, not by any independent 3rd party. Why have we (the UK) not followed protocol of supplying a sample to Russia to verify?

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

1 hour ago, NJL said:

I do have to ask... Identified by the UK, not by any independent 3rd party. Why have we (the UK) not followed protocol of supplying a sample to Russia to verify?

Russian scientists moved to UK after the fall of USSR

 

Russia has elections and world cup coming up.

 

timing is terrible for Russia to do it, yet perfect for UK (and USA has the same interest) to punish Russia for standing in the way of their manipulations in Sirya.

 

follow the money (follow who benefits the most!)  to see the likely culprit.

 

 

[Mando]

32 minutes ago, NJL said:

I do have to ask... Identified by the UK, not by any independent 3rd party. Why have we (the UK) not followed protocol of supplying a sample to Russia to verify?

im wondering that also tbh, if it is true and indisputable, follow protocol and let the chips land as they may.

 

The US backing us totally seems just too convenient also, hmm spider senses are a tingling! 

 

 

[Dick Montage]

On 06/03/2018 at 12:31 PM, Mirumir said:

Have no sympathy for him at all.

And the British police officer who attended and is now in a serious condition?

[DocM]

7 hours ago, Jimmy #1 said:

Russian scientists moved to UK after the fall of USSR

 

Russia has elections and world cup coming up.

 

timing is terrible for Russia to do it, yet perfect for UK (and USA has the same interest) to punish Russia for standing in the way of their manipulations in Sirya.

 

follow the money (follow who benefits the most!)  to see the likely culprit.

 

Disagree. The timing is perfect for a 'Wag the Dog';

 

Russia is rightly under sanctions, putting Putin in a domestic and economic pinch. He will win the election, his control over the process and legal harrassment of opponents will see to that, but the turnout will signal how much support he actually has. Gotta drive crowds to the polls.

 

Normally he could just blow up a hotel or apartment building and blame it on Chechens, but that card's already been played. The next best option is a manufactured crisis which causes other nations to harshly criticize Russia. 

 

In either case Putin can play the Fatherland Card, which he did yesterday, and increase the vote count.

 

Mission accomplished.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by DocM

[Nick H. Supervisor]

Huh. In the past 30 minutes the US has said they are expelling 60 Russian diplomats, Germany and France are expelling 4 diplomats each, the Ukraine are expelling 13, Latvia one, Lithuania 3, and the Czech foreign minister has said three diplomats must be out by April 1st. Ouch for Russia...

 

EDIT: Donald Tusk has just said 14 member states have expelled Russian diplomats.

[DocM]

TheUS isalso closing the Seattle Russian Consulate.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/26/596966272/us-expels-dozens-of-russian-diplomats-closes-consulate-in-seattle

 

Quote

 

The Trump administration is calling all of the 60 Russians spies working under the cover of diplomatic roles. They and their families are being given seven days to leave the U.S. Of the 60 officers being expelled, 48 are members of the Russian Embassy and 12 are officers from Russia's mission to the United Nations in New York.

 

The consulate in Seattle is being shuttered because of its proximity to a U.S. submarine base and Boeing's operations there, a senior administration official said. The consulate must be close by April 2.

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

Hello Cold War II...

[DocM]

52 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Hello Cold War II...

 

That likely started 5 minutes after Putin assumed power, but the west's political class has been a bit slow in realizing it. 

[NinjaGinger]

So another Democratically Elected Dictator thinks its OK to try to kill his enemies on soil which is not his.

[DocM]

This is what human spycraft often really does vs. the movies; sample collection, 

 

Ars Technica

 

Quote

 

An intelligence report shown by the British government to the US and other allies specifically attributes the source of the nerve agent used in the attack against former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in March to a Russian military laboratory. That report led to the expulsion of over 150 Russian diplomats from 28 countries.

 

According to The Times of London, the report traced the nerve agent to Russia's Scientific & Research Institute of Radiation and Chemical Defence in Shikhany, a "closed city" that is home to a chemical testing ground. The report suggests that small amounts of the chemical compounds used in the attack and other chemical weapons classified as "novichok" nerve agents were tested at Shikhany over the past decade, likely in an effort to determine if they could be used for targeted killings. In the Skripal case, it appears the agent used was applied to a doorknob.

 

The details were shared with The Times by Hamish de Bretton Gordon, former commander of Britain’s Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment, who saw the intelligence report. "No doubt the Russians are scrubbing it down as we speak," Gordon said.

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