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Santa Fe High School shooting

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Euphoria    2,006
4 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

They don't give a damn until someone they love died.

I think we all give a damn... it's just that there isnt a quick and easy solution to this problem...

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+ncoday    432
1 minute ago, Euphoria said:

I think we all give a damn... it's just that there isnt a quick and easy solution to this problem...

I give a damn. I also give a damn about cigarettes, which basically killed my father. Does that mean we should ban cigarettes?

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Mockingbird    2,699
2 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

 Look your intention is right, but there is no way of preventing illegal gun purchases. Unless you are able to get rid off all fire arms in the world... and then someone will still find a way to inflict damage and pain through other means.

Terrorist in Paris, Nice, New York, Barcelona...... a driver of a motor vehicle killed multiple people without using a firearm... point being is not the fire arm thats the issue but the crazy person holding it/sitting behind the wheel.

That's a fallacy right there.

 

Just because something isn't 100% effective doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

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techbeck    6,907
2 minutes ago, ncoday said:

This about this article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/london-murder-rate-new-york-compare-worse-stabbings-knife-crime-teenagers-statistics-figures-a8286866.html

 

"The Sunday Times compared the crime figures of London and New York, and found that for the first time in modern history the murder rate in the UK capital was higher than that in the Big Apple."

 

Think about that people, the UK where they essentially banned guns has a higher murder rate in a major city than NYC.

 

By the way, I dare anyone to claim that the Independent is even remotely conservative. They are quite liberal in their reporting, there are just some inescapable facts that cannot be hidden or covered up.

Knife violence in the UK is also on the rise.

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wv@gt    2,466
1 minute ago, Euphoria said:

I think we all give a damn... it's just that there isnt a quick and easy solution to this problem...

Let the CDC study these mass shootings for one, find the root cause(s) and go from there. 

Most of these are disgruntled students, that need help. Some of it could be stuff that happens at school, home or bad  just parenting who knows. But start there, see why so many resort to this level of violence. Then see how they are getting a gun etc 

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Mockingbird    2,699
3 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

I think we all give a damn... it's just that there isnt a quick and easy solution to this problem...

Ask them point blank: What do you love more?  

 

The kids or the guns?

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+ncoday    432
1 minute ago, Mockingbird said:

Ask them point blank: What do you love more?  

 

The kids or the guns?

so when you give up guns, then how do you protect your family from the murderers and rapists?

 

Or is it only the rich who can afford armed bodyguards get to be able to protect their families?

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Mockingbird    2,699
3 minutes ago, ncoday said:

I give a damn. I also give a damn about cigarettes, which basically killed my father. Does that mean we should ban cigarettes?

Making decisions that hurt himself is not the same as making decisions that hurt other people.

 

Now, maybe there should be a limit as to how much he can smoke around his children, but that's another matter.

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Mockingbird    2,699
4 minutes ago, ncoday said:

so when you give up guns, then how do you protect your family from the murderers and rapists?

 

Or is it only the rich who can afford armed bodyguards get to be able to protect their families?

So let state my position clearly.

 

I have never been in favor of banning all guns, but there is not many good reasons that one would need semi-automatic weapons with extended magazines (and bump stocks) to protect one's family.

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+JHBrown    13,209

I'm no Psychologist/Psychiatrist, but I have common sense, and I believe one issue is family. The American family value has deteriorated exponentially. Kids raising themselves, parents scared to "parent." Growing up, my brothers, and I were scared of the consequences from making dumb ass decisions. Today, kids are coddled. They need their personal space. You can't even raise your voice, as someone may deem that as child abuse. Getting back to actual parenting, and stop putting the blame on all these so called mental disorders, we can then get a clearer picture on the issue.

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+ncoday    432
2 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Making decisions that hurt himself is not the same as making decisions that hurt other people.

 

Now, maybe there should be a limit as to how much he can smoke around his children, but that's another matter.

what about second-hand smoke?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm

Exposure to secondhand smoke causes an estimated 41,000 deaths each year among adults in the United States:1

- Secondhand smoke causes 7,333 annual deaths from lung cancer.1

- Secondhand smoke causes 33,951 annual deaths from heart disease.1

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Euphoria    2,006
8 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Ask them point blank: What do you love more?  

 

The kids or the guns?

This question is irrelevant to the problem... ok, I love the kids more... now what?

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+ncoday    432
2 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

So let state my position clearly.

 

I have never been in favor of banning all guns, but there is not many good reasons that one would need semi-automatic weapons with extended magazines (and bump stocks) to protect one's family.

The second amendment was not written just for protecting one's home & family. Think about it, think about why the founders put gun ownership so high in the bill of rights?

 

They wanted to ensure everyone had the ability to protect themselves should the government become abusive of their power

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Euphoria    2,006
13 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

That's a fallacy right there.

 

Just because something isn't 100% effective doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

We are already doing it and its not working....

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techbeck    6,907
5 minutes ago, JHBrown said:

I'm no Psychologist/Psychiatrist, but I have common sense, and I believe one issue is family. The American family value has deteriorated exponentially. Kids raising themselves, parents scared to "parent." Growing up, my brothers, and I were scared of the consequences from making dumb ass decisions. Today, kids are coddled. They need their personal space. You can't even raise your voice, as someone may deem that as child abuse. Getting back to actual parenting, and stop putting the blame on all these so called mental disorders, we can then get a clearer picture on the issue.

What I have been saying a long time.  The family dynamic needs to be fixed and that will help solve a lot of things.

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wv@gt    2,466

Again here we go into the 2nd Amendment gun debate, we have a separate topic for that. As I said before until the CDC is allowed to study the issue, we won't know the root causes, we can only speculate. Let them study it and we can make the appropriate decisions. The gun debate is only a fraction of the problem here

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shockz    5,723
16 minutes ago, ncoday said:

I give a damn. I also give a damn about cigarettes, which basically killed my father. Does that mean we should ban cigarettes?

Almost to that point anyways.... at most jobs now, you have to take a tobacco screening or pay an arm and a leg for health insurance. Not to mention in my state you can't even smoke outside your house anymore. Someone was ticketed for their smoke entering another car at an intersection. Your argument falls pretty flat.

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Mockingbird    2,699
4 minutes ago, ncoday said:

The second amendment was not written just for protecting one's home & family. Think about it, think about why the founders put gun ownership so high in the bill of rights?

  

 They wanted to ensure everyone had the ability to protect themselves should the government become abusive of their power

This isn't the 1700s anymore

 

4 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

 We are already doing it and its not working....

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired, but you are right that the definition is not broad enough and needed to be expanded upon. 

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+ncoday    432
Just now, shockz said:

Almost to that point anyways.... at most jobs now, you have to take a tobacco screening or pay an arm and a leg for health insurance. Not to mention in my state you can't even smoke outside your house anymore. Someone was ticketed for their smoke entering another car at an intersection. Your argument falls pretty flat.

No, I would disagree. It is restricted, but not as heavily regulated as guns. I mean ban cigarettes, make them illegal.

I am sure you think I am crazy for my statement. However, can someone be banned from smoking because they were declared mentally incompetent?

Do you have to go through a background check for cigarettes?

 

Are ex-cons banned from smoking?

 

Can you have your right to smoke taken from you because you said you really want to go beat up your ex-wife?

 

The list goes on, I don't feel sorry for smokers, you ain't seen ridiculous regulation yet.

2 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

This isn't the 1700s anymore

 

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired, but you are right that the definition is not broad enough and needed to be expanded upon. 

All you have to do is look at countries like Venezuela where people protesting the Socialist government are being killed:

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/07/venezuela-bans-protests-as-death-toll-rises/535200/

 

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TechJunkie81    612

Just another day in the United States of Mass Shootings.  Such a Pro-Life country America is.

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+ncoday    432
Just now, TechJunkie81 said:

Just another day in the United States of Mass Shootings.  Such a Pro-Life country America is.

Kinda funny you would say that, considering over 600,000 children were murdered by abortion in 2014!

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

 

No-one seems to have a problem with those lives lost.

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techbeck    6,907

Reading reports in a possible bomb as well.....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/18/texas-high-school-shooting-leaves-at-least-8-dead-suspect-in-custody-report.html

Quote

The Santa Fe Police Department confirmed explosive devices were found on the campus of the high school and the "surrounding areas adjacent to the school." The school has been evacuated and the campus was cleared, the Santa Fe Police Department said.

 

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PGHammer    1,482
44 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Change the law to what?

I am not sure how another law will stop crazies from hurting other people, unless you do a psych. evaluation to whole population and lock up everyone that does not meat the baseline for normal behavior.

One rather cogent comment (from the ISD presser) has to do with mental-health resource availability to school districts.  This has been a problem since I was in school (Nixon-era); unfortunately, it has gotten largely worse - not better (and it was quite bad, even while Nixon was President).

1 minute ago, techbeck said:

Indeed - they found IEDs both on AND off-site.  IEDs, understandably, throw a major wrinkle into site cleanup.

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techbeck    6,907
2 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

Indeed - they found IEDs both on AND off-site.  IEDs, understandably, throw a major wrinkle into site cleanup.

Just goes to show people can and will use other devices to do mass damage.  Glad they found them before anything else could happen.

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Mockingbird    2,699
10 minutes ago, ncoday said:

Kinda funny you would say that, considering over 600,000 children were murdered by abortion in 2014!

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

 

No-one seems to have a problem with those lives lost.

You mean "fetus" and "removed".

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