El Paso woman living in Montana detained by Border Patrol for speaking Spanish

[macrosslover]

6 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

We don't have a border patrol, or jurisdiction boundaries.  We have police and customs & immigration officers. They work together and are national in scope. They don't have the freedom to stop anyone for any reason they feel like, and sure as hell are not allowed to profile people based on what language they're speaking.

 

It's important to remember though, that the UK is a tall but skinny country.  There is no point inland that is more than roughly 70 miles from the coast.  It's also far more densely and diversely populated than the US or Canada so your style border patrols just would not work here.

Honest question, you're saying the Border Force, at the airports for example, doesn't have the same powers as our Border Patrol or Customs?  I've had to deal with them at the airports a few times going through the UK for business and I never got the impression that saying no to them was an option, whether you trying to get into the country or had already entered.

[Shiranui]

The US will be renaming all the cities that have Spanish names soon.

[FloatingFatMan]

2 hours ago, macrosslover said:

Honest question, you're saying the Border Force, at the airports for example, doesn't have the same powers as our Border Patrol or Customs?  I've had to deal with them at the airports a few times going through the UK for business and I never got the impression that saying no to them was an option, whether you trying to get into the country or had already entered.

Saying no to them is just as much as option as saying no to the police. Both are possible, both carry consequences.

[DocM]

3 hours ago, wakjak said:

Under this administration I'm not surprised that people are being arrested for speaking a different language than English. 

 

This was being done under Obama too. Not new.

[wakjak]

Just now, DocM said:

 

This was being done under Obama too. Not new.

I never said it was new. 

[DocM]

2 minutes ago, wakjak said:

I never said it was new. 

 

Then why politicize it, other than being frivilously partisan?

 

Quote

Under this administration I'm not surprised that people are being arrested for speaking a different language than English. 

 

[adrynalyne]

26 minutes ago, DocM said:

 

Then why politicize it, other than being frivilously partisan?

 

 

I would’ve thought that obvious. Let’s look at travel bans, walls and other bull crap Trump has caused. Definitely wasn’t under any other administration. His comment was tongue in cheek and not related to current BP issues. Did you even read it?

[DocM]

35 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

I would’ve thought that obvious. Let’s look at travel bans, walls and other bull crap Trump has caused.

 

The travel bans, which were temporary, were applied to states whose visa programs were so deficient they couldnt guarantee the holder of a "country-x" visa was who it said they were. The list of those countries was formulated by the Obama administration. 

 

All Trump did was use his absolutely legal plenary and legislative powers over immigration to do something about it, rather than sit on his ass like Obama did. 

 

Wall: Secure Fence Act of 2006, 700 miles of barriers. Senators Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Senate Democrats  voted "yes." It passed by 80 to 19. Trump wants to close gaps, improve and replace. 

 

Quote

Definitely wasn’t under any other administration. 

 

We were stopped by BP in the 1990's, in Michigan. Old practice. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by DocM

[wakjak]

1 hour ago, DocM said:

We were stopped by BP in the 1990's, in Michigan. Old practice. 

Whoa, great anecdotal evidence. 

[adrynalyne]

7 hours ago, DocM said:

 

The travel bans, which were temporary, were applied to states whose visa programs were so deficient they couldnt guarantee the holder of a "country-x" visa was who it said they were. The list of those countries was formulated by the Obama administration. 

 

All Trump did was use his absolutely legal plenary and legislative powers over immigration to do something about it, rather than sit on his ass like Obama did. 

 

Wall: Secure Fence Act of 2006, 700 miles of barriers. Senators Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Senate Democrats  voted "yes." It passed by 80 to 19. Trump wants to close gaps, improve and replace. 

 

 

We were stopped by BP in the 1990's, in Michigan. Old practice. 

You are like a broken record. Here, let me put *my*  comment back into context for you.

 

 

I would’ve thought that obvious. Let’s look at travel bans, walls and other bull crap Trump has caused. Definitely wasn’t under any other administration.

 

 

Wow, totally changes the meaning. Wanna try that again?

I get it, it’s important that everyone knows over and over you got stopped by BP in the past. But let me ask you, were you also speaking Spanish and buying eggs?

Or was it a routine random stop, that for once had nothing to do with racial profiling?

 

The travel bans were temporary because Trump couldn’t make them permanent. Nice spin. 

 

Secure Fence Act of 2006? Oh you mean *these* walls? LOL. 

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by adrynalyne

[DocM]

1 hour ago, adrynalyne said:

 

I would’ve thought that obvious. Let’s look at travel bans, walls and other bull crap Trump has caused. Definitely wasn’t under any other administration.

 

But let me ask you, were you also speaking Spanish and buying eggs?

 

Driving near a border crossing, Blue Water Btidge near Port Huron MI. Black BP officer, but unlike some I don't look at everything in racial terms.

 

BTW: if the left had just let the first travel ban run its course to fix the visa system there wouldn't have been the subsequent bans. Think hard about that, though I understand if it's a tough concept for some to process ?

 

Quote

The travel bans were temporary because Trump couldn’t make them permanent. Nice spin. 

 

They had a defined expiration date to allow a new visa system to be put in place. If he'd wanted longer he could have done it under existing immigration law. 

 

Quote

 

Secure Fence Act of 2006? Oh you mean *these* walls? LOL. 

 

 

More like this

 

 

But the new walls for harder to secure areas are like this 30 foot tall segment. The rounded top rejects grapples.

 

 

They had Special Forces troops test them. Also consider some exposed metal areas can be built using Inconel or similar superalloys, which are crazy tough.

 

LA Times,

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-border-wall-test-20180119-story.html

 

Quote

Trump's border wall prototypes pass tests by military special forces

 

Recent assaults by tactical teams on prototypes of President Trump's proposed wall with Mexico indicate their imposing heights should stop border crossers, a U.S. official with direct knowledge of the rigorous assessment told the Associated Press.

 

Military special forces based in Florida and U.S. Customs and Border Protection special units spent three weeks trying to breach and scale the eight models in San Diego, using jackhammers, saws, torches and other tools and climbing devices, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information was not authorized for public release.

 

A Customs and Border Protection report on the tests identifies strengths and flaws of each design but does not pick an overall winner or rank them, though it does point to see-through steel barriers topped by concrete as the best overall design, the official said.

 

The report recommends combining elements of each, depending on the terrain. The official likened it to a Lego design, pulling pieces from different prototypes.

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by DocM

[adrynalyne]

9 minutes ago, DocM said:

but unlike some I don't look at everything in racial terms.

 

 

 

 

Nobody said you did. Unless you are BP and are racial profiling.? YOU are the one that says that’s how they do their job. 

 

As for walls, awesome. It’s a good thing tunnels don’t exist 

 

[satukoro]

12 hours ago, Shiranui said:

The US will be renaming all the cities that have Spanish names soon.

San Diego is gonna be a rough one...

[DocM]

6 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

As for walls, awesome. It’s a good thing tunnels don’t exist 

 

There are underground segments as well, and a new breed of anti-tunneling sensors. Unless the coyotes buy one of Musk's new deep diving TBMs from The Boring Company...

[wakjak]

3 hours ago, DocM said:

The rounded top rejects grapples.

as if that's the only way to get over a wall. L.O.L.

[Memphis]

21 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Saying no to them is just as much as option as saying no to the police. Both are possible, both carry consequences.

Given that the border patrol here is much like the authorities at the UK airport and is probobly the best comparison given the geography, what is required of them to force a search? Do they need cause? 

[FloatingFatMan]

1 hour ago, sidroc said:

Given that the border patrol here is much like the authorities at the UK airport and is probobly the best comparison given the geography, what is required of them to force a search? Do they need cause? 

I couldn't really say what the details are as I'm not one of them, but as far as I know, they have to show at the very least reasonable cause/suspicion for a search. I do know they are NOT allowed to use profiling.

[techbeck]

Lawsuit really?    Sounds like an incident with one agent and a lawsuit is not needed.  Officer was not rude, probably just a bit ignorant and should maybe go back and get a refresher course.  But sounds like this women is just looking for her 15 minutes and a pay out.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

Spanish isn't English. I always wonder if a Spanish speaker is a border jumper.

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:12 PM, FloatingFatMan said:

So, how's living in a police state going for you guys?  Land of the free, my ass...  

Aren't you from the land of CCTV, Knife Surrender Bins, and abusive hate speech laws?

[FloatingFatMan]

8 minutes ago, J. X. Maxwell said:

Aren't you from the land of CCTV, Knife Surrender Bins, and abusive hate speech laws?

The UK doesn't have "Land of the free" in its national anthem!

 

Also, what's abusive about banning hate speech that incites others to violence?

[Memphis]

15 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

The UK doesn't have "Land of the free" in its national anthem!

 

Also, what's abusive about banning hate speech that incites others to violence?

Before I drag this a bit off topic by discussing the UK any more I will say this. The officer was within his scope to make this stop, however, it raises questions on training and what the scope should be if this was enough to trigger him detaining her. Legal and ethical are not the same thing. As for UK hate speech law, I would say the recent case with Count Dankula is a good example of why hate speech laws have gone too far. A stupid  joke, should never result in court and criminal charges with the possibility of a jail sentence. 

[Tuskd]

28 minutes ago, J. X. Maxwell said:

Aren't you from the land of CCTV, Knife Surrender Bins, and abusive hate speech laws?

 

 

I know I am derailing from the topic. Couldn't agree more on the "Land of CCTV" comment. London Euston.

[Memphis]

8 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

I couldn't really say what the details are as I'm not one of them, but as far as I know, they have to show at the very least reasonable cause/suspicion for a search. I do know they are NOT allowed to use profiling.

I did a bit of research into the topic and found that the Terrorism Act of 2000 gives UK customs officers the right to detain, search, demand passwords, and keep your stuff with no cause. I am sure that racial profiling technically isn't allowed but when you have the power to do that with no cause the officers own biases inevitably become the cause. Customs officers worldwide seems to have quite allot of power. 

[bguy_1986]

Being arrested and being detained is not the same thing.  This should be a non issue.  Detain them, ask questions, verify citizenship and go on with everyone's day.  Could be a real quick process if people just follow directions, answer questions, and try not to make a scene.  You see this all the time on Live PD.  Even black offices dealing with black people.  Pretty sad to try and watch cops deal with these kind of people.  They have a lot more patience than I would.

 

Media and people blowing things out of proportion again.

[techbeck]

1 hour ago, bguy_1986 said:

Being arrested and being detained is not the same thing.  This should be a non issue.  Detain them, ask questions, verify citizenship and go on with everyone's day.  Could be a real quick process if people just follow directions, answer questions, and try not to make a scene.  You see this all the time on Live PD.  Even black offices dealing with black people.  Pretty sad to try and watch cops deal with these kind of people.  They have a lot more patience than I would.

 

Media and people blowing things out of proportion again.

Agreed.  And some people replying here do not understand either.  The lady saying she is going to sue, just is looking for a payday as well.  Cop was not rude and was just doing his job.   If immigration was not a big issue here, this would have been left to blow in the wind.   And then you have those looking to make the littlest of things in to a big/race issue.  Sickening really.