Why vote Republican if your not in the 1% or have a big business? (Without being up Democrats)


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ACTIONpack

Without being up Democrats why do you vote for Republican. I can understand it if your in the 1% or big business. Most politics that Republican put in place goes to those group. Examples like the tax plan that gave rich people and corporations permanent tax cut and the middle class temporary tax break and will increase in a few years. 1.5 trillion increase to the debt. They also want to get rid of the ACA that will kick out 12 million people off of healthcare because they can't afford it. They want to get rid of the minimum wage. They want to get rid of SNAP and don't want to put laws in for guns which they don't care about school shootings because of they want to please NRA. They want so trying to cut social security and Medicare. Those are a few examples I have.

 

I know I will upset a few and may not like the examples.

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trag3dy

The problem is that most of your examples aren't true and you're basing these "examples" on why repubs are bad on nothing more than what's being pushed on social media.

 

The worst is this one:

 

"and don't want to put laws in for guns which they don't care about school shootings because of they want to please NRA"

 

There's so much wrong with just this one little part of a sentence it's really hard to know where to start.

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ACTIONpack
ACTIONpack
8 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

The problem is that most of your examples aren't true and you're basing these "examples" on why repubs are bad on nothing more than what's being pushed on social media.

 

The worst is this one:

 

"and don't want to put laws in for guns which they don't care about school shootings because of they want to please NRA"

 

There's so much wrong with just this one little part of a sentence it's really hard to know where to start.

Any other modern country have strong gun controls and don't have the issues we have with school shootings like we do. They always change the subject because most are back by NRA.

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trag3dy
9 minutes ago, ACTIONpack said:

Any other modern country have strong gun controls and don't have the issues we have with school shootings like we do. They always change the subject because most are back by NRA.

Yeah but the US does have gun laws and that doesn't change the fact that what you said was categorically wrong in just about ever way.

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Brys
17 minutes ago, ACTIONpack said:

Any other modern country have strong gun controls and don't have the issues we have with school shootings like we do. They always change the subject because most are back by NRA.

As someone from another modern country with... I guess some gun control ? and almost no school shootings, I still think you need way more than just gun control to stop gun shooting. Sure, it may help to try to remove the tools (and I stress the try because in practice you will always have illegal weapons) but the shooters are also part of the problem. I think the shootings in the US is a topic that is way more complicated than just gun control, and yet every time it happens people are just taking a side between "ban all guns" and "don't take away our guns"

 

I know it's a stupid example but here in Switzerland, sure there is gun control but it's relatively easy to obtain a gun legally : just be born a man, turn 18, don't answer wrong at the obvious questions of the psych eval and you get enlisted for the mandatory military service. And yet we don't get shootings (well, we do, but less). Now obviously the context is extremely different, your country is extremely different, but my point is it's not just about guns.

 

Anyway, that was my two cents about the gun thing. I'm not even american, so I don't know much more about your politics, especially since you use words like "democrat", "liberal", "socialist" and "republican" in a very different way than we do here, so I can't really talk on the topic at hand.

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ThaCrip

I tend to sum up conservatives and liberals more from a general morality standpoint in which those who can't even get the abortion issue right (i.e. that abortion is immoral as it goes against God) it's not surprising they(liberals) will be backwards in many other areas to. basically when it comes to abortion, liberals put a persons 'choice' higher than a persons right-to-life when it should be the other way around.

 

Conservative values just work better long term simply because they are more inline with God (i.e. The Holy Trinity(Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)), with abortion being one of the major issues as it's a basic life issue which the liberals sugar-coat as a 'choice' so they don't look bad. but when you cut through the BS, the truth of the matter is that their 'choice' is choosing whether a child lives or dies. I don't want someone making important decisions who can't even get that one correct as once that line is crossed human life becomes of less value to those who don't see a problem with abortion and then they support other immoral things like euthanasia/gay agenda etc etc. where does it end?

 

Trump 2020.

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Pam14160

Not sure about others reading this, but I found this very hard to read.  very badly written.

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kcbworth
4 hours ago, ThaCrip said:

I tend to sum up conservatives and liberals more from a general morality standpoint in which those who can't even get the abortion issue right (i.e. that abortion is immoral as it goes against God) it's not surprising they(liberals) will be backwards in many other areas to. basically when it comes to abortion, liberals put a persons 'choice' higher than a persons right-to-life when it should be the other way around.

 

Conservative values just work better long term simply because they are more inline with God (i.e. The Holy Trinity(Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)), with abortion being one of the major issues as it's a basic life issue which the liberals sugar-coat as a 'choice' so they don't look bad. but when you cut through the BS, the truth of the matter is that their 'choice' is choosing whether a child lives or dies. I don't want someone making important decisions who can't even get that one correct as once that line is crossed human life becomes of less value to those who don't see a problem with abortion and then they support other immoral things like euthanasia/gay agenda etc etc. where does it end?

So you must DESPISE donald trump then right given he is at the worst side of society in nearly all of those facets?

 

4 hours ago, ThaCrip said:

Trump 2020.

Oh I guess not. All those other words were... devoid of meaning?

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Dysphoria
5 hours ago, ThaCrip said:

I tend to sum up conservatives and liberals more from a general morality standpoint in which those who can't even get the abortion issue right (i.e. that abortion is immoral as it goes against God) it's not surprising they(liberals) will be backwards in many other areas to. basically when it comes to abortion, liberals put a persons 'choice' higher than a persons right-to-life when it should be the other way around.

 

Conservative values just work better long term simply because they are more inline with God (i.e. The Holy Trinity(Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)), with abortion being one of the major issues as it's a basic life issue which the liberals sugar-coat as a 'choice' so they don't look bad. but when you cut through the BS, the truth of the matter is that their 'choice' is choosing whether a child lives or dies. I don't want someone making important decisions who can't even get that one correct as once that line is crossed human life becomes of less value to those who don't see a problem with abortion and then they support other immoral things like euthanasia/gay agenda etc etc. where does it end?

 

Trump 2020.

I understand you are being sarcastic... but still this is the biggest written bull I've seen in years...

 

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Dysphoria
5 hours ago, ACTIONpack said:

Without being up Democrats why do you vote for Republican. I can understand it if your in the 1% or big business. Most politics that Republican put in place goes to those group. Examples like the tax plan that gave rich people and corporations permanent tax cut and the middle class temporary tax break and will increase in a few years. 1.5 trillion increase to the debt. They also want to get rid of the ACA that will kick out 12 million people off of healthcare because they can't afford it. They want to get rid of the minimum wage. They want to get rid of SNAP and don't want to put laws in for guns which they don't care about school shootings because of they want to please NRA. They want so trying to cut social security and Medicare. Those are a few examples I have.

 

I know I will upset a few and may not like the examples.

Your question/statement is written with a lot of fallacies.

Firstly policies being pushed by Republicans and Trump in general help all businesses especially the small once that have cash constrain and that need to compete with large companies.

Look at it this way... Democrats/Liberals are for growing the government. They believe that government needs to regulate everything as people are not being able to make the right decision without them holding their hand... at least that is the message... the real reason is politicians/bureaucrats make millions by lobbying against/for regulations based on whatever corporation pays them/donates more money.

This is that "pay to play" strategy that Clinton's have been using to make 100s of millions $.

Look at everyone in the House of Representatives and the Senate, they are all millionaires, and almost all of them has never held a different job outside of politics.

 

Republicans are for lowering the size of the government, bureaucracy and regulations.

 

Minimum wage is bull... you cant force businesses to pay something they can not afford. Wage should be driven by market competition and performance evaluation, something that bureaucrats can not understand. You are a good worker, the company is doing well, they will reward the worker in order to retain them, otherwise they will loose valuable resources to competing businesses, as simple as that.

 

So you start with business and tax cuts and then you jump to gun control and other issues... There are already existing gun regulations and laws, some would argue they are not equaly implemented and executed everywhere... the point is guns were not invented over the last 10 years... sadly our society is moving in a different direction and you can correlate that to more shootings than anything else.

 

If you see the media propaganda before the 80s & 70s, all shows and movies were about family structure and morals, the age of the nuclear family. Then there was a big shift in media propaganda, pushing normalcy for everything but the nuclear family. In many shows/movies you can find that the traditional couple is being represented as the one most screwed up while they highlight the greatness off all other split, divorced, LGBT and etc... All of these has contributed to the removal of the moral ground and education of kids which should be pushed internally by the parents and then strengthened and supported by the schools. That is not the case any more. This is a large and complex topic and writing a paragraph does not even scratch the surface of the real issue.

In other words, more gun control will not fix lack of morality. An article last week said that UK now has the largest number of casualties from stabbing than any other country in the worlds... so remove guns, people will find other ways to inflict damage. The question should be why these people want to inflict damage and how to prevent that.

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+primortal
3 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Minimum wage is bull... you cant force businesses to pay something they can not afford. 

 

So you're saying that you cannot force any business to pay any salary they cannot afford?  So you want the employees to work for free?  Would you work for free?  That business would be dead before it even started is it could afford to pay employee's salary.

 

4 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Wage should be driven by market competition and performance evaluation, something that bureaucrats can not understand. You are a good worker, the company is doing well, they will reward the worker in order to retain them, otherwise they will loose valuable resources to competing businesses, as simple as that.

With that mentality then you're ok with a lot of people on welfare?  Nobody starts out as a "good worker", it takes time for an employee to get the proper education and training in order to perform their job well. If those people cannot make enough money to make a living; rent, utilities, food, healthcare, etc.  nor have the aptitude to excel (in order to find higher paying salaries)  then they have no choice but to go on welfare.

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Dysphoria
8 minutes ago, primortal said:

So you're saying that you cannot force any business to pay any salary they cannot afford?  So you want the employees to work for free?  Would you work for free?  That business would be dead before it even started is it could afford to pay employee's salary.

No.. .again you are assuming that people will work for anything or nothing... I am saying that people will work for what they are willing to work. Employer will pay employees based on what kind of workforce and quality of workforce he wants to attain. But that should be left to the business. Businesses actually compete to get good performing employees.

 

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Dysphoria
13 minutes ago, primortal said:

With that mentality then you're ok with a lot of people on welfare?  Nobody starts out as a "good worker", it takes time for an employee to get the proper education and training in order to perform their job well. If those people cannot make enough money to make a living; rent, utilities, food, healthcare, etc.  nor have the aptitude to excel (in order to find higher paying salaries)  then they have no choice but to go on welfare.

Ok let me re-phrase this... SO they voted to increase minimum wage. Which I believe it happened sometime last year....

Now McDonalds, Taco Bell and other similar businesses are implementing automated kiosks. so now these businesses were forced to other more cost effective options, than having someone taking an order for a meal. So by increasing the minimum wage and making it a regulation you just costed all these people their jobs... so based on your logic they will all go on welfare...

 

I am saying that most of them will figure out a way to improve their skill set and apply for other jobs that pay more...

 

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dead.cell

You know, one of the biggest fallacies I've seen is this assumption by the left that all immigrants are poor, undocumented, and helpless. That's how the media portrays them much of the time.

 

The reality is that many of them are hustling for work. Who's outside Home Depot ready to work? Mexicans. I'm not even trying to be funny here, there's a reason that joke is made in comedy... because it's a reflection of REALITY. So that being said, many of these Mexican Americans are hard working individuals. They're finding ways to run their own businesses, often times involved with restaurants, construction, landscaping, autoshops, etc. Been going to this tire shop for years called Oroscoz. Dry cleaning? Small Mexican shop. Food? Small Mexican shop called Casarez (for 22 years actually, owner is badass). Hell, even my dentist that's taken care of me since I was a teenager (Dr. Villarreal).

 

Now, is it really so hard to believe that Mexicans who are often religious, family oriented, with strong feelings about the sanctity of the life of a child, that maybe want to see their businesses prosper... would vote Republican?  These are the sort of things Republican candidates campaign on. Not trying to speak for all Mexican Americans or those with a hispanic background, but I can at least speak from the perspective of my own family.

 

No one in my family cares for Trump, same goes with the right who are tolerating him to keep from further dividing the party. He's merely a distraction, and seeing CNN tell me about what he said or didn't say (or how fast he responded) on TWITTER... lol, I could not possibly care less.

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+primortal
16 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

No.. .again you are assuming that people will work for anything or nothing... I am saying that people will work for what they are willing to work. Employer will pay employees based on what kind of workforce and quality of workforce he wants to attain. But that should be left to the business. Businesses actually compete to get good performing employees.

 

 

I'm not assuming, I'm just pointing out the failure of your statement.  A minimum wage was established to guarantee a based salary for employees and to prevent employers from paying sub-par wages.  Based on the performance of the employee,  raises and promotions are awarded.  There are jobs in business, for example, mailroom employees that are pretty routine and wouldn't be performance based.  So your rationale doesn't work for all businesses and all positions in businesses.

 

22 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Ok let me re-phrase this... SO they voted to increase minimum wage. Which I believe it happened sometime last year....

Now McDonalds, Taco Bell and other similar businesses are implementing automated kiosks. so now these businesses were forced to other more cost effective options, than having someone taking an order for a meal. So by increasing the minimum wage and making it a regulation you just costed all these people their jobs... so based on your logic they will all go on welfare...

 

Fast food businesses are eventually going to automated kiosk not just because of wage increases but for better customer experience.  Most complaints by customers are that the order is always wrong.  Plus the only thing the kiosk is doing is taking orders and that's it.  Someone has to prepare the food, check it against the order, bag it and give it to the customer.  90% that the same job the cashier does.  So who is the kiosk really replacing?  No one.

 

Personally, CEO wages needs to be reigned-in being they are out of control.

 

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+Biscuits Brown

OK, I'll bite at the OP's bait.  I'm not in the 1%. I'm not 'rich' nor do I own a business of any size. For me it boils down to personal responsibility. I believe people - all people are first and foremost responsible for their behavior.  Today, the Democrats (mostly, but not entirely) appears to want everyone that's not rich or powerful (or white) to somehow not be be responsible for their actions.  Its always someone else's 'fault' and that goes against my basic way of seeing things. To this end, I also do not feel its my responsibility to support the people in society that continually make bad decisions. Every dollar that goes to a social program has to come from a tax paying citizen and to be honest, I already pay enough. It's time our government (both sides) learn a thing or two about spending what we give them instead of just asking for more.  

 

So the bottom line when I vote team red, its not because I think Republicans are the savior, its because I am voting against team blue.  

 

 

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VultureTX
58 minutes ago, primortal said:

So you're saying that you cannot force any business to pay any salary they cannot afford?  So you want the employees to work for free?  Would you work for free?  That business would be dead before it even started is it could afford to pay employee's salary. 

 

 

Well congrats we all know you are a socialist just by making that statement.  Capitalism says a business succeeds by making a profit, the employees work there because it benefits them in some way.   You obviously think there is one employer (aka socialist govt) and don't get competition is motivation.

 

/this whole thread is based on a bunch of misleading statements with assumptions that ignore historical facts.

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Melfster
2 minutes ago, Zag L. said:

OK, I'll bite at the OP's bait.  I'm not in the 1%. I'm not 'rich' nor do I own a business of any size. For me it boils down to personal responsibility. I believe people - all people are first and foremost responsible for their behavior.  Today, the Democrats (mostly, but not entirely) appears to want everyone that's not rich or powerful (or white) to somehow not be be responsible for their actions.  Its always someone else's 'fault' and that goes against my basic way of seeing things. To this end, I also do not feel its my responsibility to support the people in society that continually make bad decisions. Every dollar that goes to a social program has to come from a tax paying citizen and to be honest, I already pay enough. It's time our government (both sides) learn a thing or two about spending what we give them instead of just asking for more.  

 

So the bottom line when I vote team red, its not because I think Republicans are the savior, its because I am voting against team blue.  

 

 

That really doesn't work when it comes Trump Republican part y because he has never taken responsibility for any of his horrible actions.

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Dysphoria
11 minutes ago, primortal said:

I'm not assuming, I'm just pointing out the failure of your statement.  A minimum wage was established to guarantee a based salary for employees and to prevent employers from paying sub-par wages.  Based on the performance of the employee,  raises and promotions are awarded.  There are jobs in business, for example, mailroom employees that are pretty routine and wouldn't be performance based.  So your rationale doesn't work for all businesses and all positions in businesses.

 

It works quite well, a lot of these people are paid more than minimum wage based on where they work, region, city, company... Again, if you are not happy you can quit and get a job somewhere else, then the business will have to fill these positions with another person, go through training, etc, etc... so employers have the responsibility of keeping the employees happy to keep them in but also run a profitable business...

Quote

 

Personally, CEO wages needs to be reigned-in being they are out of control.

Isn't that up to the shareholders and board members to decide? If a person brings enough value and know-how to reorganize a company and quadruple its value, shouldnt they be compensated well, or are yo more for equal distribution of wealth?

Apple was doing quite poorly when Steve Job's was let go... only when he was brought back in as a CEO that the company saw a surge in profits and growth... based on your opinion, what would have been a fare paycheck/compensation to him, for taking Apple from the edge of bankruptcy to making it one of the most valuable companies in the world?

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+Biscuits Brown
Just now, Melfster said:

That really doesn't work when it comes Trump Republican part y because he has never taken responsibility for any of his horrible actions.

Correct (and as a side note, based on my beliefs, I did not vote for Mr. Trump), but the OP didn't ask specifically about one particular candidate. He asked a general question about the two parties and the points in the original post would likely be just as valid regardless of who won the election.  Perhaps if we focused more on the actual question instead of bringing individual candidates into the fold would be a better way to discuss this. I am 100% certain however this will never happen.  Trump haters will only want to berate him with the usual talking points and supporters will only do the same with no one actually discussing the OP's question. Now, if ACTIONpack wants to change his question to just why did anyone vote for Trump, then he should really post that in the area dedicated to the Trump discussion.   

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+primortal
3 minutes ago, VultureTX said:

Well congrats we all know you are a socialist just by making that statement.  Capitalism says a business succeeds by making a profit, the employees work there because it benefits them in some way.   You obviously think there is one employer (aka socialist govt) and don't get competition is motivation.

How would businesses succeed without making a profit?  Of course, it benefits the employee, salary wise as well as education/training.

 

Where did I state there is one employer?  I'm saying that not all jobs foster competition that employers would seek out.

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Dysphoria
10 minutes ago, Melfster said:

That really doesn't work when it comes Trump Republican part y because he has never taken responsibility for any of his horrible actions.

Are you talking about him as a person or a president? I never voted for him and I might not fully agree with his approach of doing business, but so far he has been effective.

I believe most people voted for him because he is not a bureaucrat and politician, and his actions confirm that... I dont need another PC puppet to smile and push the can further while the country goes down hill.

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Paul1979UK

I'm supprised anyone would vote for the Republican party just like I'm supprised that anyone would vote for the Conservative party, but you want to know whats really funny about all this, the public are crying out for change and yet in the UK they would never vote for Labour until Tony Blair changed Labour into new Labour which was more or less shifting them towards the Conservative party in a lot of policies, it's crazy that people want change but keep voting the same way and I suspect they do that because the right wing media are pretty powerful in shaping how a lot of people think, they've managed to beable to get the public to vote in ways that protects the intrest of the rich elites and big corparations. I mean look at Trump, his biggest success so far is tax cuts for the 1% and corparations and yet us muppets keep voting for them lol, so the real problem is us voters.

 

Anyway, as for gun controls in the US, thats only part of the problem, to me the much bigger problem in the US is the social system that doesn't look after enough of it's people which can lead to many other problems, the safey net in the US is quite weak compared to what we see in EU countries and I suspect that is having a impact on a lot of the other issue, some people do crazy things when down on there luck or things are getting desprate and wtith a weak safey net to help protect them, shootings and other crimes can happen as a result.

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Dysphoria
4 minutes ago, Paul1979UK said:

I'm supprised anyone would vote for the Republican party just like I'm supprised that anyone would vote for the Conservative party, but you want to know whats really funny about all this, the public are crying out for change and yet in the UK they would never vote for Labour until Tony Blair changed Labour into new Labour which was more or less shifting them towards the Conservative party in a lot of policies, it's crazy that people want change but keep voting the same way and I suspect they do that because the right wing media are pretty powerful in shaping how a lot of people think, they've managed to beable to get the public to vote in ways that protects the intrest of the rich elites and big corparations. I mean look at Trump, his biggest success so far is tax cuts for the 1% and corparations and yet us muppets keep voting for them lol, so the real problem is us voters.

You not understanding the tax cut and how it affects and benefits the middle class is your shortcoming... dont blame the rest of us for it...

Edit: Sorry I just noticed you are from the UK...

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