Why vote Republican if your not in the 1% or have a big business? (Without being up Democrats)


Recommended Posts

VultureTX

elves were US citizens? elves are real?

elves derived no benefits by serving their king or did the shoemaker not compensate those elves who helped?  aka toons situation simplified for  kids,  

 

 

Did Fritz accurately model US capitalism as it was implemented in the 50-60s? do allegorical tales need to be internally consistent as well as relevant to a time and place.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
shockz
On 5/29/2018 at 4:01 AM, ThaCrip said:

to those who don't see a problem with abortion and then they support other immoral things like euthanasia/gay agenda etc etc. where does it end?

 

Trump 2020.

The gay agenda bugaboo again. Please, do tell, what agenda would that be? Is it the one where we try to convert the entire population to LGBT, or is the one where we snatch children up and eat them for breakfast? Maybe one where we can marry our dog? Or is it the one where we're just ensuring we're treated as equals to a straight counterpart. The horrors. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
satukoro
55 minutes ago, shockz said:

The gay agenda bugaboo again. Please, do tell, what agenda would that be? Is it the one where we try to convert the entire population to LGBT, or is the one where we snatch children up and eat them for breakfast? Maybe one where we can marry our dog? Or is it the one where we're just ensuring we're treated as equals to a straight counterpart. The horrors.  

As if the entire LGBT community was working together, holding board meetings and fundraisers to actually lead a coordinated agenda lol:

"Alright gold team, you take uptown. Blue team, you take downtown. We're gonna convert the crap outta these straight white republicans."

 

Calling it "Immoral", f*** off.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul1979UK
On 5/30/2018 at 6:53 PM, Euphoria said:

The reason I will never live in Europe... you truly believe that EU governments are redistributing the wealth to other people?

In reality you are paying much higher taxes to get "free" services such as healthcare, education, etc... now I highlighted here "free" as it is not really free, it all comes away from your paycheck and the government decides how it gets spent.

The problem with governmental managed and funded systems is that they are poorly managed... It's a bottomless pit in which money are being thrown and no one is being incentivized to optimize efficiency and provide better service... at the end you end up paying more and more in taxes... while the government officials get richer and richer

Facts speak for themselfs, the US out of all the modern countries have got some of the worse inequalty, povaty, crime rates and many other things compared to many other modern countries.

 

Higher taxes is better because it means more help goes where it's needed the most which is on the poor and average people, the US as a system goes is mostly down to yourself on how well you do but thier is little support or safety net which is why having looked at both systems, to me the European one is better and more humain for most people.

 

Beside, it's not about health care being free but making sure it covers all, thats a far better system to have that Europe have compared to the US that a lot of people are not coverd.

 

Also, the irony is about cost, the US system is more expensive and thats likely down because it's a busisness and that is about making money at any cost, not caring about the well being of it's people, hence why in some areas, state run is a better option but even with that, more could be done so it runs more effectivelly.

 

Also, why is it in the US that they seem to think that higher taxes is bad when if you look at Europe, they have a high quality of living and higher taxes don't seem to be doing them any harm, in fact many of the countries with the highest taxes in the world have some of the highest living standards and you have to wonder why is that when it's clear in the US they don't want to hear that, I suspect the message the US system is sending out to the public is because it benefits corparations more to keep the system as it is, more profit for them but that doesn't benefit the American people.

Edited by Paul1979UK
Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer
22 hours ago, VultureTX said:

elves were US citizens? elves are real?

elves derived no benefits by serving their king or did the shoemaker not compensate those elves who helped?  aka toons situation simplified for  kids,  

 

 

Did Fritz accurately model US capitalism as it was implemented in the 50-60s? do allegorical tales need to be internally consistent as well as relevant to a time and place.

 

 

 

Oh, please.  The point I (and Fudd) were making is that the fundamentals are true anywhere - they are not unique to the United States.  The only reason why the fundamentals involved in building (or growing) a business don't work is that government interferes - and even then, it takes major governmental interference. (Consider that the same fundamentals work in Cuba, Syria, and a lot of nations that are not - in any way - democracies.)  Further, I pointed out that the cartoon in question dates back to the 1950s; I wasn't even BORN yet!  Hating the United States does not mean hating business fundamentals, as those fundamentals don't require the United States to even exist.

 

Further, both I (and the shoemaker) categorically stated that he did NOT compensate the elves.  At all. (Before Fudd showed up, the shoemaker turned DOWN a salesman for machinery to start automating his shoe manufacturing operation, using exactly that "excuse".)  Sound familiar?  (In fact, how many manufacturing operations outside the United States pay far less in the way of compensation to their workers than similar operations in the US or EU -or even - horrors! -  NO compensation at all?)  The biggest reason manufacturing operations move is decreased compensation costs - doesn't matter if it's across the street, the station, or the planet.  (In fact, why does MBUSI exist? They are building G-coupes and sedans - for global sale - in Alabama - not Germany.  While a lot of MBUSI's product doesn't leave the US, it is not true of ALL their production (which is, in fact, why the tariffs matter - even to M-B Germany.The German government cares - however, how much does M-B Germany care about where they build?  The same could be said about FCA - who just replaced their CEO; the problem FCA has is increased compensation costs in the EU - and not merely vs. China, but even vs. the US - how is - or even can - the EU address that? (I think the plan to implement tariffs on US-sourced goods was an attempt to slow the job losses due to companies moving manufacturing operations - in whole or in part - to the US; remember, M-B has already moved some, and Volvo is following suit; will FCA move some to Michigan from Europe? It is certainly possible; their CEO is an American, and former head of Jeep.

Edited by PGHammer
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
DocM
30 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

Oh, please.  The point I (and Fudd) were making is that the fundamentals are true anywhere - they are not unique to the United States. 

>

Hating the United States does not mean hating business fundamentals, as those fundamentals don't require the United States to even exist.

 

Those business fundamentals have existed since the first cave man traded his hunted meat for speared fish for gathered foods or crafted goods like axes. Later they drove trade along the Silk Road. 

 

Rinse, wash, repeat.

 

And business friendly laws benefit small businesses as much as the bigs, and it's they who create the most jobs and upward economic mobility.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
cork1958

To be honest and a straight up answer to the topic question, I simply don't know why anyone would vote Republican! At least not a straight Republican ticket.

 

I don't consider myself Democrat or Republican really, but do my research and vote for who I think is best, and that could be somebody from ANY party.

Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer
22 hours ago, Paul1979UK said:

Facts speak for themselfs, the US out of all the modern countries have got some of the worse inequalty, povaty, crime rates and many other things compared to many other modern countries.

 

Higher taxes is better because it means more help goes where it's needed the most which is on the poor and average people, the US as a system goes is mostly down to yourself on how well you do but thier is little support or safety net which is why having looked at both systems, to me the European one is better and more humain for most people.

 

Beside, it's not about health care being free but making sure it covers all, thats a far better system to have that Europe have compared to the US that a lot of people are not coverd.

 

Also, the irony is about cost, the US system is more expensive and thats likely down because it's a busisness and that is about making money at any cost, not caring about the well being of it's people, hence why in some areas, state run is a better option but even with that, more could be done so it runs more effectivelly.

 

Also, why is it in the US that they seem to think that higher taxes is bad when if you look at Europe, they have a high quality of living and higher taxes don't seem to be doing them any harm, in fact many of the countries with the highest taxes in the world have some of the highest living standards and you have to wonder why is that when it's clear in the US they don't want to hear that, I suspect the message the US system is sending out to the public is because it benefits corparations more to keep the system as it is, more profit for them but that doesn't benefit the American people.

The US USED to have the highest overall compensation costs vs. the EU - however, now it no longer does.  Part of the reason it no longer does is, in fact, those higher taxes in the EU vs. the US.  Even the ACA (which did increase total compensation costs in the US) did NOT offset a larger increase in compensation costs in the EU (note that MBUSI came to Alabama anyway, despite the ACA being an obvious factor).  Poverty is actually a reason to move a manufacturing facility TO an area - not the reverse - in fact, look at all areas where M-B built or improved manufactung operations globally (not even just the United States).  You are trying to argue that M-B should only improve their manufacturing plants in the highest-cost areas - no manufacturing company would think like that, because their boards of directors would certainly fire them.  You improve in the CHEAPEST areas first - and that is no longer the EU.

Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer
7 minutes ago, cork1958 said:

To be honest and a straight up answer to the topic question, I simply don't know why anyone would vote Republican! At least not a straight Republican ticket.

 

I don't consider myself Democrat or Republican really, but do my research and vote for who I think is best, and that could be somebody from ANY party.

cork - until 2016, I voted a split ticket (I voted Democratic for state legislature, and GOP for offices above that (Congress, United States Senate, and POTUS) - that has everything to do with the folks that hold those offices in Maryland).  2016 marked the first time I voted straigjht GOP ever - and it has EVERYTHING to do with the Democrats getting caught - for the second consecutive time - with their hands in the gerrymandering jar.  Once I MIGHT forgive; I cannot forgive getting nailed a second time - and by the same United States District Court. (United States District Court for the Central District of Maryland - rather amusingly, it is - literally - down the road from the General Assembly building.)  Rather amusingly, my entire state legislative district's delegation - not a single GOP member in the bunch - spanked the General Assembly for their stupidity; I called it "put over the knee by your own base" considering that the spankers AND the spanked were all Democrats.

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Astra.Xtreme

I fall on the Libertarian side of the scale, but I'll vote Republican because it actually helps me.  Democrats like to raise taxes and take from the middle and upper classes to give more and more to the poor.  I will support that thought process if it actually solves something, but history has shown that it doesn't.  The entire Obama presidency was a disaster, and every single social class was screwed over, including the lower class which the democrats claim they "support".  While Trump is in no form a great president, him shaking up the tax structure has boomed several sectors of the economy and freed up money for the average tax payer.  I immediately saw thousands of dollars more in my yearly income.  Besides all the social BS and racism claims that the media thrives on, how could I not support the Conservative methods?  It directly helps me and it should be an even distribution of aid across all social classes.

 

In my lifetime, I've been through Clinton through today.  Clinton got the benefit of the dot com boom, but some of his policies ultimately lead to the financial crisis.  The economy under Bush was great until 9/11 triggered a war and the financial crisis. I don't agree with the war, but the stimuluses and some quick policies helped calm the recession from tanking out of control and killing entire industries.  Obama should have had the benefit of riding the upslope out of the recession, but instead he decided to squeeze the middle and lower class, leading the slowest recession recovery ever.  ACA was a flop, home ownership was poor, the lower class grew, and it was one giant joke of 8 years.  It's astonishing that people loved that guy regardless of him not helping anybody. I guess being a "cool guy" is all some people need to be a proud democrat...  Here we are with Trump and the health of the economy has changed drastically.  I'm an engineer and I appreciate data, so it's not hard for me to pick what side I want to be on.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
VultureTX
On 7/24/2018 at 10:02 PM, PGHammer said:

I have to wonder - how many socialists have seen the 1950s-era cartoons explaining  exactly how capitalism works? (Not kidding - they were produced by Warner Brothers and were based on the Brothers Grimm fairytale of the shoemaker and the elves - with Elmer Fudd as the King of the Elves, and Sylvester as the shoemaker's pet cat. Except for certain humorous elements, the entire outline presented by Fudd to the shoemaker could have come from  Business 101 = and yes; the shoemaker was, in fact, weaned off the elves and modernized his business.  (According to you, that should have been impossible - remember, he was not paying the elves.)  Is it on YouTube?

 

1 hour ago, PGHammer said:

Oh, please.  The point I (and Fudd) were making is that the fundamentals are true anywhere - they are not unique to the United States.  The only reason why the fundamentals involved in building (or growing) a business don't work is that government interferes - and even then, it takes major governmental interference. (Consider that the same fundamentals work in Cuba, Syria, and a lot of nations that are not - in any way - democracies.)  Further, I pointed out that the cartoon in question dates back to the 1950s; I wasn't even BORN yet!  Hating the United States does not mean hating business fundamentals, as those fundamentals don't require the United States to even exist.

 

Further, both I (and the shoemaker) categorically stated that he did NOT compensate the elves.  At all. (Before Fudd showed up, the shoemaker turned DOWN a salesman for machinery to start automating his shoe manufacturing operation, using exactly that "excuse".)  Sound familiar?  (In fact, how many manufacturing operations outside the United States pay far less in the way of compensation to their workers than similar operations in the US or EU -or even - horrors! -  NO compensation at all?)  The biggest reason manufacturing operations move is decreased compensation costs - doesn't matter if it's across the street, the station, or the planet.  (In fact, why does MBUSI exist? They are building G-coupes and sedans - for global sale - in Alabama - not Germany.  While a lot of MBUSI's product doesn't leave the US, it is not true of ALL their production (which is, in fact, why the tariffs matter - even to M-B Germany.The German government cares - however, how much does M-B Germany care about where they build?  The same could be said about FCA - who just replaced their CEO; the problem FCA has is increased compensation costs in the EU - and not merely vs. China, but even vs. the US - how is - or even can - the EU address that? (I think the plan to implement tariffs on US-sourced goods was an attempt to slow the job losses due to companies moving manufacturing operations - in whole or in part - to the US; remember, M-B has already moved some, and Volvo is following suit; will FCA move some to Michigan from Europe? It is certainly possible; their CEO is an American, and former head of Jeep.

no they are not true everywhere, because certain governments don't allow everyone to start a business or work in a business.

 

You might want to talk to the palestinians in Lebanon and Jordan about their professional practices and why they can't operate .

 

your argument does not keep me from voting GOP, then again I'm a firearms instructor(retired).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul1979UK
2 hours ago, PGHammer said:

The US USED to have the highest overall compensation costs vs. the EU - however, now it no longer does.  Part of the reason it no longer does is, in fact, those higher taxes in the EU vs. the US.  Even the ACA (which did increase total compensation costs in the US) did NOT offset a larger increase in compensation costs in the EU (note that MBUSI came to Alabama anyway, despite the ACA being an obvious factor).  Poverty is actually a reason to move a manufacturing facility TO an area - not the reverse - in fact, look at all areas where M-B built or improved manufactung operations globally (not even just the United States).  You are trying to argue that M-B should only improve their manufacturing plants in the highest-cost areas - no manufacturing company would think like that, because their boards of directors would certainly fire them.  You improve in the CHEAPEST areas first - and that is no longer the EU.

The problem is that moving manufacturing back would add a lot more cost that would be passed onto the consumers and would likely hurt the poor and average consumers the most. Most manufacturing don't moved to countries with cheap labour for the fun of it, they do it because it makes economic sense to do so from a busisness point of view and from a consumers point of view and that wont change anytime soon because consumers want goods that are cheap and of high quality.

Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer
9 hours ago, VultureTX said:

 

no they are not true everywhere, because certain governments don't allow everyone to start a business or work in a business.

 

You might want to talk to the palestinians in Lebanon and Jordan about their professional practices and why they can't operate .

 

your argument does not keep me from voting GOP, then again I'm a firearms instructor(retired).

Okay - which governments are that stupid?  (The United States is not that dense, and I know of not a single EU member that is that dense either; such a policy is anti-business on its face.)  If the Palestinians are that dense, that - not anything else - is why the Israelis are eating their lunch in a business sense; what is the Israeli policy on business startups?  We ALL know a company that started in Israel; a rather successful one - Plarium Global, LLC; THE social gaming company, on every platform that means anything at all.  I don't own any stock in Plarium; however, I do play their games - currently on every platform except iOS (the only reason iOS is the exception is due to not owning any iOS devices).

Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer
8 hours ago, Paul1979UK said:

The problem is that moving manufacturing back would add a lot more cost that would be passed onto the consumers and would likely hurt the poor and average consumers the most. Most manufacturing don't moved to countries with cheap labour for the fun of it, they do it because it makes economic sense to do so from a busisness point of view and from a consumers point of view and that wont change anytime soon because consumers want goods that are cheap and of high quality.

Exactly; Paul it is now making economic sense to move manufacturing operations to the United States - which was not the case in the late 20th century.  We can actually compete with the Asian and European manufacturing centers in all three areas = manufacturing quality, compensation costs, and environmental costs - that was not the case merely in the tailchase of the late twentieth century - especially in term of environmental costs.The ONLY area where we can't compete with Asia is textiles (and that is still largely not as automated as even they would like).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Nerd Rage

I vote Republican down the ticket, because I agree with almost all of their fiscal policies.  Socially, I tend to lean to the left, but it's not enough to change my vote.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer
8 hours ago, Nerd Rage said:

I vote Republican down the ticket, because I agree with almost all of their fiscal policies.  Socially, I tend to lean to the left, but it's not enough to change my vote.

That was why I tended to vote split (if you look at most ticket splitters, they tend to vote similarly according to the polls).  The very reason why the split is not happenining is due to the Democrats (as a party) moving further left post-Clinton.  If anything, said move is becoming more pronounced this year.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Melfster

I now vote all Democrat because I don't like where the Republican party is going I think the US really going down.   Republican party is focused on short term more so then democratic party but it is hurting medium term and long term opportunities.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul1979UK
14 hours ago, PGHammer said:

Exactly; Paul it is now making economic sense to move manufacturing operations to the United States - which was not the case in the late 20th century.  We can actually compete with the Asian and European manufacturing centers in all three areas = manufacturing quality, compensation costs, and environmental costs - that was not the case merely in the tailchase of the late twentieth century - especially in term of environmental costs.The ONLY area where we can't compete with Asia is textiles (and that is still largely not as automated as even they would like).

The real problem is labour cost and that is something both the EU and US can't really compete with cheap labour markets like China and as China is going high tech with cheap labour, it's more of an advantage to them over us.

 

At the end of the day, consumers are key and as long as they can get goods cheaper of the same quality from the likes of China, consumers will continue to do so, if the likes of the US goverment forces companies to move back to the US then all that will do is make thoes products more expensive to US consumers and if this was done on mass, it would lower the standard of living for Americans.

 

The truth is, westerners are addicted to cheap goods and good luck any US or EU goverment taking that away from them without a major backlash because we all know that companies wont take the hit and will just pass on the cost to consumers, thats the reality of the world we are in.

 

In any case, it might not matter much over the next few decades because robotics and A.I. is likely going to take over most of the labour and that will make it hard for humans at any labour cost to compete with, still that does't help the job market.

Link to post
Share on other sites
VultureTX
2 hours ago, Melfster said:

I now vote all Democrat because I don't like where the Republican party is going I think the US really going down.   Republican party is focused on short term more so then democratic party but it is hurting medium term and long term opportunities.

Ever wonder why the left are pessimists?  Why they have no knowledge of history (historical trends to be precise)

And they repeat the claim that the US is going to get us all killed or enslaved or burnt up.   And these present levels of hysteria,  the Japanese see it as "8th grader syndrome" in Adults like they are emotionally stunted.

I sometimes want a 1930's Depression Era Democrat to give them a dose of reality.   But they don't want that since FDR actually did internment camps, DEM Speaker of the House (Cactus Jack) was an absolute racist, and socialists used to lie in newpaper editorials about soviet union by urging americans to stay out of European Affairs and Wars while the Jews were being scapegoated.

 

 

/Bizarre

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Melfster
1 hour ago, VultureTX said:

Ever wonder why the left are pessimists?  Why they have no knowledge of history (historical trends to be precise)

And they repeat the claim that the US is going to get us all killed or enslaved or burnt up.   And these present levels of hysteria,  the Japanese see it as "8th grader syndrome" in Adults like they are emotionally stunted.

I sometimes want a 1930's Depression Era Democrat to give them a dose of reality.   But they don't want that since FDR actually did internment camps, DEM Speaker of the House (Cactus Jack) was an absolute racist, and socialists used to lie in newpaper editorials about soviet union by urging americans to stay out of European Affairs and Wars while the Jews were being scapegoated.

 

 

/Bizarre

Everytime we have Republican in White house they spend like drunken sailor.  If look at that decificit its grower at faster rate ever before.  LOL.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
VultureTX

US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_Pre

 

Yeah Dollars spent is noise, GDP % shows it differently.  Still not a complete economic answer but shows that NYT article was pure bias.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul1979UK
21 hours ago, Melfster said:

Everytime we have Republican in White house they spend like drunken sailor.  If look at that decificit its grower at faster rate ever before.  LOL.

I don't know, but every time the Democrats are in power, things seem more peaceful but when the Republicans get into power, all hell brakes loose lol.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Rippleman

As an outsider looking in (to the USA), I see A LOT of things that need improvement but also see everything drastically improving with Trump (republican.. but is he????).  Old school Republican is generally like you suggest but seems like it is not mostly center-right now adays. I myself am a liberal whom voted for Trudeau - not for who is but simply becuase more % of good policies then % of bad policies. What I have always tried to do is explain to people NOT to focus on person/party but rather the ideas.  You should never "be" a side. If you do, you end up missing the majorly of good things people who are not in your party can bring.

 

When Obama was in office, Fox news was poison and CNN was good. Now that Trump is in office, CNN is poison and Fox news is good. When Obama was in office, the alt-right were wacktards, now that Trump is in office, the alt-left are wacktards (look at the trump thread here on neowin to see that in full blown glory).

 

In the end, don't worry about the label and worry about the policies. DO NOT put faith in MSM since it is ALL slanted to a certain side for clicks/ads. Do your own homework and accept that you COULD be wrong in your position that you take. Best advice I could give: 1) Accept whom is voted in 2) work together 3) don't self-destruct your own country just so the other guy doesn't do good 4) If you don't like who won the election, try harder next time. 

Edited by Rippleman
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne
45 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

As an outsider looking in (to the USA), I see A LOT of things that need improvement but also see everything drastically improving with Trump (republican.. but is he????).  Old school Republican is generally like you suggest but seems like it is not mostly center-right now adays. I myself am a liberal whom voted for Trudeau - not for who is but simply becuase more % of good policies then % of bad policies. What I have always tried to do is explain to people NOT to focus on person/party but rather the ideas.  You should never "be" a side. If you do, you end up missing the majorly of good things people who are not in your party can bring.

 

When Obama was in office, Fox news was poison and CNN was good. Now that Trump is in office, CNN is poison and Fox news is good. When Obama was in office, the alt-right were wacktards, now that Trump is in office, the alt-left are wacktards (look at the trump thread here on neowin to see that in full blown glory).

 

In the end, don't worry about the label and worry about the policies. DO NOT put faith in MSM since it is ALL slanted to a certain side for clicks/ads. Do your own homework and accept that you COULD be wrong in your position that you take. Best advice I could give: 1) Accept whom is voted in 2) work together 3) don't self-destruct your own country just so the other guy doesn't do good 4) If you don't like who won the election, try harder next time. 

What have you noticed that has improved because of Trump?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
VultureTX
2 hours ago, Paul1979UK said:

I don't know, but every time the Democrats are in power, things seem more peaceful but when the Republicans get into power, all hell brakes loose lol.

since when ? 20th century onward says otherwise WWI Haiti, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Libya, Syria are DEM

sure Grenada ,Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq are GOP off the top of my head, but cost wise it's a DEM problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.