Why vote Republican if your not in the 1% or have a big business? (Without being up Democrats)


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Jason S.
46 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

How much did it raise your paycheck?

Ive not seen diddly squat in tax changes. 

 

Saw my 401k nosedive with his tarrif crap though. Yay Trump?

you know, i should probably look at my 401k. im sure it went down too.

 

the raise was like $160 a month. less money going to the gub is always good, imo.

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+primortal
7 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

the raise was like $160 a month. less money going to the gub is always good, imo.

How much if any was widdled away by things like rising prices of items like groceries, gas, etc.?

 

I've covered this elsewhere, my grocery bill has gone up an extra $35/mon and my budgeted home oil has gone up and extra $120/mon.  Gasoline is around $3.20/gal- $3.50/gal, about a dollar more than it was last year.

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Jason S.
1 minute ago, primortal said:

How much if any was widdled away by things like rising prices of items like groceries, gas, etc.?

 

I've covered this elsewhere, my grocery bill has gone up an extra $35/mon and my budgeted home oil has gone up and extra $120/mon.  Gasoline is around $3.20/g al- $3.50/gal, about a dollar more than it was last year.

so are you insinuating that prices going up for commodities is trump's fault? i mean, gas prices were astronomical when obama was in office...

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+primortal
4 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

so are you insinuating that prices going up for commodities is trump's fault? i mean, gas prices were astronomical when obama was in office...

No, just a general observation about costs going up in relation to the tax break in paychecks.  Home oil was definitely cheaper when Obama was in office, no direct correlation to Trump with prices going up.

 

Gas prices around me were hovering around the high $2 mark when Obama was heading out in his last term.

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kcbworth
3 hours ago, Jason S. said:

my paycheck went up

If you are referring to lower income tax, basically all you're saying is ateump is trashing the economy by giving away money he doesn't have, right?

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Jason S.
13 hours ago, kcbworth said:

If you are referring to lower income tax, basically all you're saying is ateump is trashing the economy by giving away money he doesn't have, right?

can you elaborate? how is he "giving away money"?

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DConnell
15 hours ago, kcbworth said:

If you are referring to lower income tax, basically all you're saying is ateump is trashing the economy by giving away money he doesn't have, right?

How is letting people keep more of their earnings "trashing the economy"? ?

 

He isn't giving away money; he's just not taking it in the first place. There's a difference.

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kcbworth
1 hour ago, Jason S. said:

can you elaborate? how is he "giving away money"?

 

26 minutes ago, DConnell said:

How is letting people keep more of their earnings "trashing the economy"? ?

 

He isn't giving away money; he's just not taking it in the first place. There's a difference.

Huh? The deficit is climbing at record levels predominantly due to the dramatic reduction in government revenue.

 

Reducing revenue while increasing spending = giving away money

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Jason S.
20 minutes ago, kcbworth said:

Reducing revenue while increasing spending = giving away money

^^ This still makes no sense. no one is giving away money except Obama who actually gave free money to every US citizen back in 2009 in order to try to "stimulate the economy."

 

I would like to link this article. It DOES support your argument --> "President Donald Trump: Total Actual plus Budgeted = $5.683 trillion, almost as much in one term as Obama accumulated in two." That said, there are way more factors to consider outside of just income tax.

  • First, the president has no control over the mandatory budget or its deficit. That includes Social Security and Medicare benefits. These are the two biggest expenses any president has.
  • Second, the Constitution gave Congress, not the president, the power to control spending. The president’s budget is just a starting point.
  • Third, each president inherits many of his predecessors' policies. For example, every president suffered from lower revenue.

A 2015 article from Forbes shows that: "The bottom line: out of 171.3 million tax units this year, 77.5 million—or 45.3 percent—won’t pay income tax." So, according to your argument, the government is giving away money to that 45%.

 

I'd also point you to this article that shows US Revenue by year. Trump's tenure is right in line w/ Obama's.

 

U.S. Tax Revenue by Year

 

Here's a record of income for each fiscal year since 1960. There are links to more details about the revenue back to the FY 2006 budget. Tax receipts fell off during the recession, but started setting new records by FY 2013.

 

FY 2019 (est.) - $3.42 trillion

FY 2018 (est.) - $3.34 trillion

FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.

FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.

FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.

FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.

FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.

FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.

 

And, finally, to support your argument: "Revenues would be much higher without the Trump tax plan, not to mention the extension of the Bush tax cuts and the Obama tax cuts. Those tax cuts were meant to fight the 2001 and 2008 recessions. They were supposed to spur the consumer spending that drives almost 70 percent of economic growth. Most people didn't even realize this happened, since the tax cut showed up as reduced withholding instead of a check. Instead of spending the cuts, people used some of it to pay off debt. The recession scared people into saving more and using credit cards less."

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Paul1979UK
23 hours ago, Astra.Xtreme said:

Not sure what you mean by "peaceful", but if you mean all the whining in the media, then you should understand that the major majority of the media is extremely biased left.  All they do is bitch and complain about the presidency they lost.  They'll spend every last second trying to dig up dirt on Trump and hope all their negativity is going to magically gain them supporters.  Get your popcorn ready for the next presidential election.

 

In reality..... the country is booming and doing better than it has in a longgg time.  What should people value?  Economic expansion and the improving state of the population, or butt-hurt media reporters that complain for the sake of complaining?  Sadly the latter gets more exposure than they deserve.

Funny really because a lot of the worse I see comes from the right wing press.

 

As for the US, it's hard to say how well it's doing thanks to Trump's policies because countries are like oil tankers that move slowly, Trump's not been in power long enough for a lot of his policies to really make an impact, it's just as likely that Trump is benefitting from policies that the Democrats did with Obama as it takes about 18 to 24 months for major policies to have any real impact in the economy.

 

In any case, next year will be the year to see how well or bad Trump is really doing so that should be intresting to see, things could look really dices for Trump next year if these trade wars continue on or get worse and that will likely be rememberd for the next election as one things voters never like is thier pockets being attacked which is more or less what Trump could be doing if these trade wars get worse.

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kcbworth

Thanks @Jason S.

 

My point is, if the deficit is increasing at record rates, the economy is not "doing better".

 

That's like saying printing money and giving American $1m in cash means the economy is "doing better". It makes no sense

 

It reminds of Robert Mugabe, who was pretty popular for a while in Zimbabwe... until everyone realised he'd destroyed the country's future forever.

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Melfster

People don't understand the impact of the Trumps record deficits.  It is the worst of any president.  The economy and the deficit was way better under Obama.

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Jason S.
1 minute ago, Melfster said:

People don't understand the impact of the Trumps record deficits.  It is the worst of any president.  The economy and the deficit was way better under Obama.

Trump's record deficits are horrible, i'll agree. Just remember that under Obama's terms as president, the US National debt doubled.

 

saying that the economy was better under obama insinuates that it's now worse under Trump. i havent seen any data that proves as such. In fact, i'd go on record saying the economy was horrible under his first term b/c of the impact of the recession. The Fed's QE program didnt give money to the bottom 90% of americans. it was a gift to wall st and investment companies who used it to prop up the stock market. Under obama's presidency we've now seen a bubble more massive than the the financial bubble of the Bush era. Today's bubble is the "everything bubble" which encompasses the bond market, stock market, housing market, auto market and student loan market. This bubble, which grew out of control under obama's tenure, is going to pop eventually, and it'll somehow wrongly be blamed on Trump or whoever succeeds him.

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Melfster
21 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

Trump's record deficits are horrible, i'll agree. Just remember that under Obama's terms as president, the US National debt doubled.

 

saying that the economy was better under obama insinuates that it's now worse under Trump. i havent seen any data that proves as such. In fact, i'd go on record saying the economy was horrible under his first term b/c of the impact of the recession. The Fed's QE program didnt give money to the bottom 90% of americans. it was a gift to wall st and investment companies who used it to prop up the stock market. Under obama's presidency we've now seen a bubble more massive than the the financial bubble of the Bush era. Today's bubble is the "everything bubble" which encompasses the bond market, stock market, housing market, auto market and student loan market. This bubble, which grew out of control under obama's tenure, is going to pop eventually, and it'll somehow wrongly be blamed on Trump or whoever succeeds him.

I have seen a lot evidence it was better under Obama compared to  Trump  we are in massive bubble I have seen fake news that economy is better but it is not at all.  The bubble is going to burst within 1 to 2 years.   

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wakjak
1 minute ago, Melfster said:

I have seen a lot evidence it was better under Obama compared to  Trump  we are in massive bubble I have seen fake news that economy is better but it is not at all.  The bubble is going to burst within 1 to 2 years.   

Also Rumors/Experts saying the next crash, which will happen because of Trump, will be worse than the great depression.

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Jason S.
2 hours ago, Melfster said:

I have seen a lot evidence it was better under Obama compared to  Trump  we are in massive bubble I have seen fake news that economy is better but it is not at all.  The bubble is going to burst within 1 to 2 years.   

i'd love to see some evidence to support your claim. saying it was better under obama suggests it's worse now. how so?

 

People also said that this massive bubble was going to burst 1-2yrs ago. what data have you seen to suggest it's going to burst in the next 1-2yrs?

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CrossCheck

I won't vote republican or democrat. I don't vote along any party lines. This day and age, we don't need politicians running the country (US). We need sound businessmen running our country. Politicians (greedy ones with greased pockets) are what have ruined my faith in politics no matter which party they are in. Both parties are only interested in mudslinging each other. They don't care about the people who elect them.

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DPyro
On 9/24/2018 at 12:48 PM, Jason S. said:

Just remember that under Obama's terms as president, the US National debt doubled.

While conveniently forgetting about the housing crisis and the stimulus package he needed to create in order to get out of a recession. As of the day Trump was inaugurated the debt was going down. Now Trump has exploded the debt to record highs. 

Quote

Trump's Fiscal Year 2019 budget projects the debt will increase $8.3 trillion during his first term. It's almost as much as Obama added in two terms while fighting a recession. Trump has not fulfilled his campaign promise to cut the debt. Instead, he's done the opposite.

 

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Jason S.
27 minutes ago, DPyro said:

While conveniently forgetting about the housing crisis and the stimulus package he needed to create in order to get out of a recession. As of the day Trump was inaugurated the debt was going down. Now Trump has exploded the debt to record highs. 

 

the housing crisis was created by the free market. no bailout was needed. it should have corrected itself. no stimulus packages were needed.

 

The national debt has never gone down under obama. you might be referring to the budget deficit, idk

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ncoday
On 5/29/2018 at 10:04 AM, primortal said:

So you're saying that you cannot force any business to pay any salary they cannot afford?  So you want the employees to work for free?  Would you work for free?  That business would be dead before it even started is it could afford to pay employee's salary.

 

With that mentality then you're ok with a lot of people on welfare?  Nobody starts out as a "good worker", it takes time for an employee to get the proper education and training in order to perform their job well. If those people cannot make enough money to make a living; rent, utilities, food, healthcare, etc.  nor have the aptitude to excel (in order to find higher paying salaries)  then they have no choice but to go on welfare.

Not all jobs are meant to be ones where you can support a family and pay rent. These are the basic, menial labor jobs meant to be minimum wage, such as flipping burgers.

 

Businesses are NOT charities, you force them to raise wages and they will find other ways to save $$$. Case in point, Amazon raises minimum wage to $15, but took away bonuses and employee stock which people are now complaining about. Your average fast food worker doesn't understand that restaurants have VERY small margins. Raise their costs (labor) and without any change anywhere else, they will lose money and eventually go out of business. Thus, they cut back hours and benefits.

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Jason S.
19 minutes ago, DPyro said:

perhaps i missed it in the article, but they cite the debt going down by $102B b/c of the federal budget ceiling. having a debt ceiling does not automatically cause the debt to go down.... so im not sure what theyre getting at. thats like saying "im not going to pay my mortgage this month" and then my mortgage debt magically decreases...

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+primortal
11 minutes ago, ncoday said:

Not all jobs are meant to be ones where you can support a family and pay rent. These are the basic, menial labor jobs meant to be minimum wage, such as flipping burgers.

I never said all jobs are meant to be ones to support a family and pay for utilities and rent.  But for a single person should make enough money to support themselves and not rely on welfare or foodstamps until they get better paying jobs.

 

13 minutes ago, ncoday said:

Businesses are NOT charities, you force them to raise wages and they will find other ways to save $$$. Case in point, Amazon raises minimum wage to $15, but took away bonuses and employee stock which people are now complaining about. Your average fast food worker doesn't understand that restaurants have VERY small margins. Raise their costs (labor) and without any change anywhere else, they will lose money and eventually go out of business. Thus, they cut back hours and benefits.

Of course businesses will find ways to make money, that's a given.  Again if you want to be in business, you're business model would have to support raises along with increases in minimal wages if you want to survive.  Cutting corners are typical and if emplyoees don't like it that can find other jobs that provides what they need.

 

In Amazon's case, losing stock options isn't a big loss.  There's a lot of turn around in the warehouse positions and stock options won't amount to a lot to be much of an impact.  Bonuses are also violitale but the amount at times could be higher then their monthly take home.  But at least most of the employees can have a decent living vs. what they had before.

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+Biscuits Brown
7 minutes ago, primortal said:

I never said all jobs are meant to be ones to support a family and pay for utilities and rent.  But for a single person should make enough money to support themselves and not rely on welfare or foodstamps until they get better paying jobs.

 

In all of my years (over 55 of them in fact), at no point in my life was minimum wage EVER enough for a single person of any age to support themselves.

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