PsYcHoKiLLa Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 9:40 PM, theyarecomingforyou said: Violence should always be a last resort yet in American taking matters into your own hands through violence is celebrated rather than condemned. As Dostoyevsky best articulated, 'the degree of civilization in a society is revealed by how it treats its criminals' and for the US that's a damning indictment. My point exactly. Killing someone should be a last resort, not a reflex action like sending a tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsYcHoKiLLa Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) On 7/7/2018 at 4:37 AM, adrynalyne said: Oh well that changes everything if he didn’t know there kids in there. She shoulda just let him off with a strict scolding. No, what she should have done is phone the police, you know....the law enforcement cos that's what they do, catch criminals. Although I forgot, we're talking about 'murca here, still stuck with that cowboy pew pew mentality ya'll have. A country that elected a moral degenerate like Trump. Civilised society ya'll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted July 11, 2018 Subscriber² Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, DConnell said: I don't really see a distinction. If you use any force to deal with an attacker, even if meant as "nonviolent", the attacker is going to see it as otherwise. Better IMO to use the force needed to end the confrontation decisively. Not lethally or with intent to do permanent harm necessarily, but with enough force to render the attacker unable/unwilling to continue. I am not violent by nature, but given a threat to myself or especially the kids in my family, I would have no reluctance whatsoever to do whatever is necessary to defend them. On occasions like this story, such reluctance is likely to end up getting someone hurt/killed anyway - the very people you seek to protect. Okay, I still think you have focused on the reluctance part incorrectly. I don't believe any parent would hesitate to do what ever would be necessary to protect their children from harm, they may be reluctant to want to use violence. I hope you can see the difference between the two, it may be subtle but still important. For the most part I very much agree with your points. ? DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted July 11, 2018 Member Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Raze said: Okay, I still think you have focused on the reluctance part incorrectly. I don't believe any parent would hesitate to do what ever would be necessary to protect their children from harm, they may be reluctant to want to use violence. I hope you can see the difference between the two, it may be subtle but still important. For the most part I very much agree with your points. ? Perhaps, but to my mind, reluctance implies hesitation. +Raze 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said: No, what she should have done is phone the police, you know....the law enforcement cos that's what they do, catch criminals. Although I forgot, we're talking about 'murca here, still stuck with that cowboy pew pew mentality ya'll have. A country that elected a moral degenerate like Trump. Civilised society ya'll. That’s a great idea. Police find her car and dead kids. Nobody gets shot or hurt. Wait.... Nice jab at bribing politics into this. Screw Trump, he has nothing to do with this for once. DConnell and satukoro 1 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, dead.cell said: And that's all fine and well. Some of the people here though are acting like she "deserves" it though, which is no more disgusting than those wishing for someone's death. It's like everyone misunderstood the concept of taking the high road, opting for their high horse instead. I don't need to wish for anyone's death or punishment really. If someone does enough stupid things in their life, the world does pretty well of sorting them out. Some people just get their Darwin award earlier than others. She didnt deserve it, no, but it is irresponsible for her to not look at ways she can prevent things like this or change her actions. And speaking of wishing for someone's death, she pretty much said that about the guy she shot after her kids were safe and the guy was in custody...which was uncalled for IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said: No, what she should have done is phone the police, you know....the law enforcement cos that's what they do, catch criminals. Although I forgot, we're talking about 'murca here, still stuck with that cowboy pew pew mentality ya'll have. A country that elected a moral degenerate like Trump. Civilised society ya'll. Umm, what does Trump have to do with this? As far as the pew pew mentality....mess with someone kids, expect to get hurt no matter what where you are from. adrynalyne, ramesees, DConnell and 2 others 5 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted July 11, 2018 Member Share Posted July 11, 2018 53 minutes ago, techbeck said: She didnt deserve it, no, but it is irresponsible for her to not look at ways she can prevent things like this or change her actions. And speaking of wishing for someone's death, she pretty much said that about the guy she shot after her kids were safe and the guy was in custody...which was uncalled for IMO. Uncalled for? Perhaps. But also completely natural and understandable. The guy tried to take her kids! You don't awaken Mama Bear without expecting some roaring! dead.cell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, jnelsoninjax said: AFIK (at least here in my city) the police have a civilian review board that reviews the actions of the officer (when a lethal shooting occurs) and is empowered to state weather it was justified or not. In Stand Your Ground states the usial practice is that the county prosecutor determines if it was a "good shoot," with the default assumption being it was until the evidence proves oherwise. In most all of those states; given a good shoot determination, the defender is immune from both criminal charges and civil litigation. Michigan's standard wrt civil, Quote REVISED JUDICATURE ACT OF 1961 (EXCERPT) Act 236 of 1961 600.2922b Use of deadly force or other than deadly force by individual in self-defense; immunity from civil liability. Sec. 2922b. An individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force in self-defense or in defense of another individual in compliance with section 2 of the self-defense act is immune from civil liability for damages caused to either of the following by the use of that deadly force or force other than deadly force: (a) The individual against whom the use of deadly force or force other than deadly force is authorized. (b) Any individual claiming damages arising out of injury to or the death of the individual described in subdivision (a), based upon his or her relationship to that individual. Edited July 11, 2018 by DocM DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, adrynalyne said: That’s a great idea. Police find her car and dead kids. Nobody gets shot or hurt. Wait.... OR Police find her car abandoned not far away and the kids are fine. Just because he's a car thief doesn't mean he's a child killer, y'know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: OR Police find her car abandoned not far away and the kids are fine. Just because he's a car thief doesn't mean he's a child killer, y'know? We have a saying in these parts; Quote pray for the best, but plan for the worst. In this circumstance, letting the car be taken with the kids in it qualifies as an unreasonable risk. Bad plan. Edited July 11, 2018 by DocM ramesees, psmoked and DConnell 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: OR Police find her car abandoned not far away and the kids are fine. Just because he's a car thief doesn't mean he's a child killer, y'know? Would you be willing to take that chance? I know I wouldn’t. ramesees, DocM, dead.cell and 2 others 1 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 38 minutes ago, adrynalyne said: Would you be willing to take that chance? I know I wouldn’t. Same here, and given what our daughter carries.... dead.cell and DConnell 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatC Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Killing IS wrong. However, this happened just around the corner from us, and knowing how people are here in the DFW area, and as a mother of 5, I would not have hesitated to do the same thing. So I say kudos to this woman! She's protecting the lives of her innocent children, which cannot be replaced. (This is just my two cents, you are allowed to disagree if you like. I will not argue.) satukoro, DConnell, DocM and 1 other 3 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satukoro Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 hours ago, dead.cell said: And that's all fine and well. Some of the people here though are acting like she "deserves" it though, which is no more disgusting than those wishing for someone's death. It's like everyone misunderstood the concept of taking the high road, opting for their high horse instead. I don't need to wish for anyone's death or punishment really. If someone does enough stupid things in their life, the world does pretty well of sorting them out. Some people just get their Darwin award earlier than others. She deserves a citation for leaving her motor running while pumping gas (possibly the loaded gun near children depending on how it was secured), and praise from the community for taking control and defending her children's lives. He deserves his darwin award. He asked for it kindly. I've seen enough Live PD to gather pretty much everyone in Texas has a gun on or near them. adrynalyne 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rohdekill Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 6:52 AM, xendrome said: Nope, just because you leave your front door unlocked doesn't mean it's OK for someone to come in and steal your stuff. When did I say it was OK? I merely pointed out you accept the risk that something CAN happen. By leaving your door unlocked you accept the risk that a burglary CAN happen. By attempting to carjack, you accept that a person CAN shoot you. By performing either action (leaving a door unlocked or attempting a carjack), the odds of a response negative to you increases. Therefore, you accept these odds by performing them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiranui Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Quote I wish I would've killed you, if I didn't already, Arrgh! English, mofo, do you speak it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncoday Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 23 hours ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said: No, what she should have done is phone the police, you know....the law enforcement cos that's what they do, catch criminals. Although I forgot, we're talking about 'murca here, still stuck with that cowboy pew pew mentality ya'll have. A country that elected a moral degenerate like Trump. Civilised society ya'll. So you're saying she should have just called the police and HOPE they find the car before the kids are killed/sold off as sex slaves/abandoned in some deserted alley? DocM and DConnell 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) On 7/11/2018 at 11:27 AM, PsYcHoKiLLa said: No, what she should have done is phone the police, you know....the law enforcement cos that's what they do, catch criminals. Self-defense laws aside, what part of a "citizens arrest" don't you understand? In 49 states the written law is a citizen can make "citizens arrest," the exception being North Carolina where it's called a "detention." Example: the California citizens who recognized, chased and brought down (ahem!) Richard Ramirez, 'The Night Stalker.' In some states deadly force is permitted to apprehend a fleeing felon. Edited July 12, 2018 by DocM DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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