Texas mother shoots man trying to steal car with children inside

[DConnell Member]

On 7/7/2018 at 2:51 AM, FloatingFatMan said:

I think the point he's making is that perhaps the guy didn't know there were kids in the car, and if he had, he wouldn't have tried to steal it.  Of course, that doesn't excuse his actions but its difficult to judge his motives with the info we have.  There have been plenty of cases where cars were jacked and then abandoned as soon as the perp realised there were kids inside.

 

But sure, when kids are involved, lethal force to protect them is expected and absolutely allowed but lethal force just for stealing a car is a bit of a stretch.  Would you advocate him being shot dead if he tried to steal an empty car?  No amount of property is worth a life, no matter what the perp may have done.  You don't get to place a dollar value on someone's life until such time as they become a physical threat.

But the point is, the kids were in the car. Whether the perp was aware of that is irrelevant to the mother's actions - she was defending her kids first and foremost.

 

If you were in her position, would you take the chance on asking nicely that he let the kids out before taking the car?

 

The perp's motives play no part in the mother's decision - his actions are what matter. He might not have known, and might have let the kids out if given the chance. Or not.

 

The mother's actions, and her feelings after the fact are completely justified.

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

Just now, DConnell said:

But the point is, the kids were in the car. Whether the perp was aware of that is irrelevant to the mother's actions - she was defending her kids first and foremost.

 

If you were in her position, would you take the chance on asking nicely that he let the kids out before taking the car?

 

Or would you act to protect the children using whatever force you had available?

 

I've already said, several times, that I have no issues at all with what the mother did. She protected her kids at any cost, as would anyone. I don't have a problem with that.

 

I only have a problem with people still wanting to kill him after he's already been arrested.

 

 

[DConnell Member]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:40 PM, theyarecomingforyou said:

Violence should always be a last resort yet in American taking matters into your own hands through violence is celebrated rather than condemned. As Dostoyevsky best articulated, 'the degree of civilization in a society is revealed by how it treats its criminals' and for the US that's a damning indictment.

Yeah, how dare she protect her children! /s

 

We're not celebrating violence. We're celebrating a woman's act of courage in defense of her kids.

[DConnell Member]

On 7/7/2018 at 4:09 AM, theyarecomingforyou said:

People are misunderstanding my comment. It's perfectly reasonable to take action to protect one's children in the heat of the moment. What's not reasonable is for her to be wishing she'd killed him or for everyone else to be praising the violence against him. It's one thing to claim her actions were understandable or justified, it's another entirely to celebrate them in some perverse bloodlust.

Do you have kids?  Judging by your comments I'd wager not - any parent would behave the same way in these circumstances. Heck, I'm not a parent but I have the same instinct when it comes to my godchildren and their siblings.

 

I'd wager if your kids (or kids in your family) were threatened in a similar situation you'd express the exact same feelings toward the attacker.

[theyarecomingforyou]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:23 AM, jnelsoninjax said:

Yeah, hopefully he's dead, otherwise he's in for a long, painful recovery

 

On 7/6/2018 at 9:01 PM, Mindovermaster said:

I heard about this on the radio. Good for the lady. It's her car, and its being stolen. I'm sure if this was her house, she'd get a different response.

 

On 7/7/2018 at 5:39 AM, Rippleman said:

for stealing a car AND child kidnapping. Yes it deserves death. This person will hurt anyone if willing to kidnap children. 

 

On 7/7/2018 at 8:53 AM, ThaCrip said:

Good for her!

 

This sends a clear message to criminals, don't F up!

 

3 minutes ago, DConnell said:

We're not celebrating violence. We're celebrating a woman's act of courage in defense of her kids.

You may not be but clearly others here are. It's one thing to state her actions were understandable in the heat of the moment; it's another to praise her or wish death on the person she shot. American culture really is quite violence and lacking in empathy.

[DConnell Member]

9 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

I've already said, several times, that I have no issues at all with what the mother did. She protected her kids at any cost, as would anyone. I don't have a problem with that.

 

I only have a problem with people still wanting to kill him after he's already been arrested.

 

 

Other people, you have a point, though kids in danger does bring out the papa wolf/mama bear instinct in people.

 

The mother is perfectly justified in what she said and how she feels.

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

3 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

 

 

 

 

You may not be but clearly others here are. It's one thing to state her actions were understandable in the heat of the moment; it's another to praise her or wish death on the person she shot. American culture really is quite violence and lacking in empathy.

IMO, she wanted to teach him a lesson, not wishing that he died...

[DConnell Member]

3 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

 

 

 

 

You may not be but clearly others here are. It's one thing to state her actions were understandable in the heat of the moment; it's another to praise her or wish death on the person she shot. American culture really is quite violence and lacking in empathy.

And you're showing empathy for the wrong person. He chose to commit a crime, chose to threaten others for his own gain. He's suffering the consequences of those actions now.

 

I do praise her for protecting her kids. And while I don't actively wish death on the perp, I would shed no tears if something did happen to him, either.

 

[theyarecomingforyou]

1 minute ago, DConnell said:

Do you have kids?  Judging by your comments I'd wager not - any parent would behave the same way in these circumstances. Heck, I'm not a parent but I have the same instinct when it comes to my godchildren and their siblings.

Yes, I have a three year old son and my next child is due in October. And whilst I would certainly do everything with in my power to protect my children I would only resort to violence reluctantly and without pleasure.

1 minute ago, DConnell said:

I'd wager if your kids (or kids in your family) were threatened in a similar situation you'd express the exact same feelings toward the attacker.

I would like to think not but one cannot say for certain until one is faced with such a situation. My aim in any encounter would be to incapacitate any attacker and neutralise the threat, not to kill them.

[FloatingFatMan]

7 minutes ago, DConnell said:

I do praise her for protecting her kids. And while I don't actively wish death on the perp, I would shed no tears if something did happen to him, either.

Something DID happen to him.  He was shot in the face.  He may well come to wish she HAD killed him...

[theyarecomingforyou]

8 minutes ago, DConnell said:

And you're showing empathy for the wrong person. He chose to commit a crime, chose to threaten others for his own gain. He's suffering the consequences of those actions now.

Where do you get the impression that I feel sorry for him? As you point out he put himself in that position. However, that doesn't mean that I don't consider his actions an indictment of society and its failure to provide a stable and secure environment. Crime is usually the resort of the desperate, of those who have no other method to survive or thrive in a society. What are the chances he was wealthy and had a decent education? Virtually nil. What is the lielihood he had a stable childhood? Low. What is the likelihood that he grew up immersed in a society of crimes? Pretty high. Capitalism is a blight on society, pitting people against each other for the benefit of a wealthy elite.

 

Who's to say you wouldn't have done the same thing as him had you had the same upbringing? That doesn't excuse his actions but one has to consider the full context of the situation.

[DConnell Member]

26 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Something DID happen to him.  He was shot in the face.  He may well come to wish she HAD killed him...

Can't say I have any sympathy. He's just getting what he deserves.

 

I meant from this point on, as a consequence of his poor life choice.

[techbeck]

Still curious why a parent would leave their keys in the car or their car running with kids inside and no adult to watch.  Could have been avoided the situation could have been much worse. 

[DConnell Member]

32 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

Where do you get the impression that I feel sorry for him? As you point out he put himself in that position. However, that doesn't mean that I don't consider his actions an indictment of society and its failure to provide a stable and secure environment. Crime is usually the resort of the desperate, of those who have no other method to survive or thrive in a society.

 

Who's to say you wouldn't have done the same thing as him had you had the same upbringing? That doesn't excuse his actions but one has to consider the full context of the situation.

You just answered your own question, dude.

 

I grew up rather disadvantaged myself - raised by a poor single mother, relentlessly teased in school, etc. , yet would never consider crime. By many of the metrics the bleeding hearts try to use to make criminals seem like "victims of society" I should have had a better than even chance of being one myself. Yet, here I am, working two jobs to earn an honest living, a new homeowner, after fighting (and often losing) every step of the way for everything I've earned. He could have fought to make something of himself. He chose the low road. Period. I have no sympathy for him

 

Society isn't to blame for his choices; he is.

 

[DConnell Member]

55 minutes ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

Yes, I have a three year old son and my next child is due in October. And whilst I would certainly do everything with in my power to protect my children I would only resort to violence reluctantly and without pleasure.

I would like to think not but one cannot say for certain until one is faced with such a situation. My aim in any encounter would be to incapacitate any attacker and neutralise the threat, not to kill them.

And if your reluctance results in your son getting hurt or killed? I'd use whatever force is needed to protect my family. I won't seek to kill, but I won't hold back because that could result in me or my loved ones getting hurt or killed.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

4 minutes ago, DConnell said:

And if your reluctance results in your son getting hurt or killed? I'd use whatever force is needed to protect my family. I won't seek to kill, but I won't hold back because that could result in me or my loved ones getting hurt or killed.

 

You're taking his response about reluctance incorrectly, he acknowledged he would use whatever force within his power, he would just prefer not to use violent force.

[theyarecomingforyou]

45 minutes ago, DConnell said:

I grew up rather disadvantaged myself - raised by a poor single mother, relentlessly teased in school, etc. , yet would never consider crime.

It really comes down to two things: genetics and environment. Genetics play a role in character but the environment plays a much more substantial role. You may have had a difficult upbringing and that may have made you a stronger character; his difficulty may have been very different and had you been in that same situation you likely would have ended up in the same position. Maybe he was genetically predisposed to violence but then how do we judge people in that position? A like-for-like comparison is impossible so we will never know.

23 minutes ago, DConnell said:

And if your reluctance results in your son getting hurt or killed? I'd use whatever force is needed to protect my family. I won't seek to kill, but I won't hold back because that could result in me or my loved ones getting hurt or killed.

I don't live in perpetual fear, pyschologically preparing myself to kill someone at a moment's notice. I live in a country that has sensible gun restrictions so that gun violence is not something I have to worry about. Carjackings are pretty much unheard of here. Your relentless fear and negativity is not representitive of my day-to-day experience. Maybe that's what it takes to survive where you are—and if so I am sorry for that—but not where I am.

[ThaCrip]

6 hours ago, theyarecomingforyou said:

You may not be but clearly others here are. It's one thing to state her actions were understandable in the heat of the moment; it's another to praise her or wish death on the person she shot. American culture really is quite violence and lacking in empathy.

 

It's simply we don't side with the bad guys like some do.

 

if someone crosses the line (which is the case here) and if they get shot, it's on them. basically if more stuff like this happened, criminals would think twice before doing what they do.

 

p.s. with that said, while I realize everyone makes mistakes, if your mistake is potentially risking someone else life (which was the case here as her kids were in the car) then if you get shot, it's no one else fault but the criminals. period. too many people side with the bad guys nowadays.

[firey]

As a parent, in a not as violent country (Canada), if this happened to me and my children, I would wish for a nice swift death for whoever decided to steal my vehicle with my kids in it. Anyone who put my kids in danger (directly or indirectly, purposely or not) would face the full brunt of my wrath even if that meant that person was no longer amongst the living. But hey, that's just me.

 

I don't live in a gun happy country, I don't live in an overly violent country, we don't really ever talk about guns, but my initial instincts as a parent would be to destroy anyone who puts my kids in jeopardy.

[FloatingFatMan]

8 hours ago, DConnell said:

Can't say I have any sympathy. He's just getting what he deserves.

 

I meant from this point on, as a consequence of his poor life choice.

I'm not offering him any sympathy either. I'm just pointing out that being shot in the face is likely to result in such horrific injuries that he might well wish he were dead.  Potentially what she did was even worse than killing him so, is that fitting enough punishment for you?

 

Personally, I don't wish such injuries on anyone, no matter what they did.  I'm not that barbaric.

[FloatingFatMan]

2 hours ago, ThaCrip said:

p.s. with that said, while I realize everyone makes mistakes, if your mistake is potentially risking someone else life (which was the case here as her kids were in the car) then if you get shot, it's no one else fault but the criminals. period. too many people side with the bad guys nowadays.

Not wishing death on the criminal does NOT equate to being on their side.  That's a false equivalence.

1 hour ago, firey said:

I don't live in a gun happy country, I don't live in an overly violent country, we don't really ever talk about guns, but my initial instincts as a parent would be to destroy anyone who puts my kids in jeopardy.

Of course you would, any parent would. But somehow I don't think you'd be wishing death on the guy after the incident was over and he was in custody.

[DocM]

On 7/8/2018 at 4:16 AM, FloatingFatMan said:

It should be every medical professional's responsibility to report patients they believe to be dangerous to the police. They certainly do here.

 

Which is why I mentioned HIPAA.

 

Medical privacy is great, to a point. We're well past that point, with a practitioner culture in some areas of practice which exceeds that extreme.

[theyarecomingforyou]

3 hours ago, ThaCrip said:

It's simply we don't side with the bad guys like some do.

Understanding the root causes of criminality is NOT 'siding with the bad guys' - it's understanding that reality is complex and nuanced. The problem with American culture—particularly conservatism—is that it's based around individualism and rampant capitalism, where as long as you can get ahead it doesn't matter what happens to anyone else. Everyone is seen as responsible for their own destiny yet all the environmental factors that shape an individual are ignored. There is no collective good.

 

If a society is to punish and condemn those who break its rules then that society should also take responsibility when its failures result in violence and criminality.

[ThaCrip]

3 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Not wishing death on the criminal does NOT equate to being on their side.  That's a false equivalence.

Fine. but the point is many side with the bad guys nowadays. I think this happens with cops a fair amount of the time especially if you got a white cop shooting a black civilian as many always try to make the cops look like the bad guy when most of the time they are not when a random shooting happens between the cops and a civilian.

 

but don't get me wrong, I am sure cops cross the line here and there but many on the left always seem to default to the cops as the bad guy even when the guy they shot was not exactly a stand up citizen. so given that info, it would seem like the cops would be given the benefit of the doubt right off the start unless something turns up to say otherwise. but some people, come hell or high water, always go against the cops. this is what I am talking about with people siding with the bad guys.

[FloatingFatMan]

9 minutes ago, ThaCrip said:

Fine. but the point is many side with the bad guys nowadays. I think this happens with cops a fair amount of the time especially if you got a white cop shooting a black civilian as many always try to make the cops look like the bad guy when most of the time they are not when a random shooting happens between the cops and a civilian.

 

but don't get me wrong, I am sure cops cross the line here and there but many on the left always seem to default to the cops as the bad guy even when the guy they shot was not exactly a stand up citizen. so given that info, it would seem like the cops would be given the benefit of the doubt right off the start unless something turns up to say otherwise. but some people, come hell or high water, always go against the cops. this is what I am talking about with people siding with the bad guys.

The problem with cop shootings is that we're seeing too many incidents of them defaulting to lethal force where it's not necessary.  For quite a few on the news, the suspect isn't even armed yet gets gunned down. 

 

Lethal force should not be the default response.

 

The second problem with cops shootings is that in the US at least, it appears to be the same police department carrying out the shooting investigation as did the shooting.  This is 100% not appropriate.  Absolutely no one with any kind of working relationship with the officers involved should be investigating an incident involving them... In the UK when these happen (and they DO happen, we're not immune to it), it gets investigated by a completely independent organisation.