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From Windows to Linux.

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Riva    1,101

Hello I have been toying with the idea of using Linux after been a Windows "fanatic" from 3.1 up to 10. After a lot of failed attempts on my physical PC and a lot of playing around in VMs I have finally made the switch to Linux Mint 19 Cinnamon. Installation this time around was a lot smoother with everything working out of the box. Getting some games working with Wine and Lutris seemed a bit of a mess but it worked! My next step is getting a hypervisor worthy of hyper-v and I am all set. I do use VirtualBox to run a Windows 10 instance which I dont even use to be fair.

Things that ###### me off with Windows 10 specifically;

  • Constant collection of personal and private data into the cloud; from typing and handwriting to app and site visits.
  • Bad Q&A on semi-annual updates
  • Constant releases of drivers
  • Licensing with Windows 10 and Office
  • High memory usage when idle
  • Constant fear of trojans, bad websites and rogue ads

As an added bonus, the PC now really does boot up automatically at 8am. This wasnt working with Windows 10 and I assumed it was an EFI issue but it does work under Linux. It could really be an issue with secureboot in the firmware.

 

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cork1958    1,604

Congratulations and good luck! :)

 

Have made the move to Linux a while back for most of the same reasons, plus a few others, as you mentioned.

 

In the process of switching from Lubuntu 18 to Mint 19. Lubuntu worked great but Mint has a few other tools and stuff out of the box that I like and runs just as well.

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Mindovermaster    1,736

Welcome, mate!

 

I moved to Linux after I saw Windows 8. I was like, what, F you...

 

Another big thing was the Windows automatic updates...

 

I think I started with Debian Squeeze... Mint is an easy transition. :)

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+fusi0n    1,933

Welcome to the Darkside..

 

I used Linux for the last 20 years or so but only "full time" for a couple of years here and there. However, I just had enough of Windows 10, especially with the telemetry. I know you can disable and whatnot, but you shouldn't have too. I don't like what MSFT has been doing for the last few years. I use linux a lot of dev and pentesting, so I just made the switch full time (on my "main" pc). I still have Windows on it for Games, but Steam's proton works great.  

 

Now that a lot of coding has become largly universal, you can find a lot of apps out there compared even 4-5 years ago. Tons of free opensource stuff for alternatives, and if one doesn't have a feature you like, get clone and make a branch and add the feature ;)

 

One great thing is https://www.opendesktop.org.. Check that out :D

 

 

With that said, I think MSFT is a horrible company nowadays and put corporate interest over consumers/ 

 

Let me know if you have any questions or need help with anything. 

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adrynalyne    11,261
3 minutes ago, fusi0n said:

Welcome to the Darkside..

 

I used Linux for the last 20 years or so but only "full time" for a couple of years here and there. However, I just had enough of Windows 10, especially with the telemetry. I know you can disable and whatnot, but you shouldn't have too. I don't like what MSFT has been doing for the last few years. I use linux a lot of dev and pentesting, so I just made the switch full time (on my "main" pc). I still have Windows on it for Games, but Steam's proton works great.  

 

Now that a lot of coding has become largly universal, you can find a lot of apps out there compared even 4-5 years ago. Tons of free opensource stuff for alternatives, and if one doesn't have a feature you like, get clone and make a branch and add the feature ;)

 

One great thing is https://www.opendesktop.org.. Check that out :D

 

 

With that said, I think MSFT is a horrible company nowadays and put corporate interest over consumers/ 

 

Let me know if you have any questions or need help with anything. 

Same situation. Been using Linux and BSDs for just as long but only recently started pushing a full time laptop and desktop with it. My workstation at work is still Windows 10(Enterprise 1809 lol). 

 

Manjaro is my latest poison. I like Arch, but Manjaro makes it that much nicer and more stable. 

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ultimate99    55
On 11/5/2018 at 12:23 PM, adrynalyne said:

Same situation. Been using Linux and BSDs for just as long but only recently started pushing a full time laptop and desktop with it. My workstation at work is still Windows 10(Enterprise 1809 lol). 

 

Manjaro is my latest poison. I like Arch, but Manjaro makes it that much nicer and more stable. 

Transitioning to linux myself. But you're a .NET Developoer, do you use Visual Studio Code for that or only on work pc?

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adrynalyne    11,261
30 minutes ago, ultimate99 said:

Transitioning to linux myself. But you're a .NET Developoer, do you use Visual Studio Code for that or only on work pc?

VS Code and Rider. For legacy stuff, I have to use Windows. 

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Nick H.    9,448

I had to dig out a spare (and crappy) laptop recently for someone and it was running Windows 10. Only after I updated the system did I realise that Dell have done a terrible job with their Wi-Fi driver. A bit later I installed Mint and it now runs beautifully, despite the outdated specs. Handy for getting some work done on the go, and with TeamViewer installed I can remotely connect to my main machine at home and it's like I'm in front of my computer.

 

I'll stick with Windows 10 on my main machine, but Linux is definitely an amazing OS if you are willing to give it a go. (Y)

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bfoos    0
On 11/5/2018 at 12:23 PM, adrynalyne said:

Same situation. Been using Linux and BSDs for just as long but only recently started pushing a full time laptop and desktop with it. My workstation at work is still Windows 10(Enterprise 1809 lol). 

 

Manjaro is my latest poison. I like Arch, but Manjaro makes it that much nicer and more stable. 

+1 for Manjaro! I was using Antergos but I came across some weird issues that I couldn't overcome and wound up switching to Kubuntu. Ran that for a while then realized that I had gotten quite accustomed to the rolling release schedule of Arch based distros and really dislike the fixed release schedule of Ubuntu and its derivatives. Just switched back to the land of Arch Linux and decided to give Manjaro a try. I'm quite impressed with it so far.  

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+DevTech    1,512
On 11/5/2018 at 11:12 AM, Riva said:

Hello I have been toying with the idea of using Linux after been a Windows "fanatic" from 3.1 up to 10. After a lot of failed attempts on my physical PC and a lot of playing around in VMs I have finally made the switch to Linux Mint 19 Cinnamon. Installation this time around was a lot smoother with everything working out of the box. Getting some games working with Wine and Lutris seemed a bit of a mess but it worked! My next step is getting a hypervisor worthy of hyper-v and I am all set. I do use VirtualBox to run a Windows 10 instance which I dont even use to be fair.

Things that ###### me off with Windows 10 specifically;

  • Constant collection of personal and private data into the cloud; from typing and handwriting to app and site visits.
  • Bad Q&A on semi-annual updates
  • Constant releases of drivers
  • Licensing with Windows 10 and Office
  • High memory usage when idle
  • Constant fear of trojans, bad websites and rogue ads

As an added bonus, the PC now really does boot up automatically at 8am. This wasnt working with Windows 10 and I assumed it was an EFI issue but it does work under Linux. It could really be an issue with secureboot in the firmware.

 

Yeah, I understand Windows in a way that I can appreciate it perhaps from the inside out which makes all of those points just surface junk that can be dealt with to end up with amazing. 

 

But choice is good. So to answer question on VM, the Linux equivalent to Hyper-V is KVM which is part of the kernel. The only non-obvious thing to take care of there is to turn on "Nested VM" which is ON by default in Hyper-V but not KVM.

 

With Nested VMs, on you can run a full modern setup on Linux just as well as Hyper-V on Windows, including Docker Containers, Kubernetes etc and even KVM running Windows 10 running Hyper-V...

 

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+DevTech    1,512

Well in case it is interesting to anyone, most of the Linux server world uses RHEL or the free version, CentOS with Fedora being the bleeding edge development vehicle for them.

 

To get a lightweight base for Containers, Docker uses Moby and a lot of people use Alpine as well for that.

 

If you install the handy Docker for Windows on Windows 10, it will actually setup all the Hyper-V config you need and install Moby. This is all actually supported inside the Windows Kernel so that on Windows 10 each Container runs isolated in it's own Hyper-V instance for development purposes but on Windows Server or Linux, multiple Docker Containers run in a single VM for increased efficiency while still supplying application level virtualization.

 

Then Kubernetes will run 500 of these containers per VM Cluster and scale that out as needed. This works pretty much the same on either Windows or Linux as code is increasingly being shared between the Linux and Windows kernels.

 

Once you essentially forget about the O/S and separate stuff into Containers, all the efficiencies of Hypervisors just get multiplied.

 

Google is currently running it's stuff right now in about 2 Billion containers managed by Kubernetes.

 

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Joseph85750    0

Started dabbling in Linux in about 94, and went full time in about 99.  No regrets!   It really depends on what you need to do.  I've found Linux Mint to have everything I could ever need, plus more.  And as you said, it's not a virus/trojan friendly operating system like Windows.  I hope it goes well!

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cork1958    1,604
Posted (edited)
On 11/25/2018 at 7:28 AM, Nick H. said:

I had to dig out a spare (and crappy) laptop recently for someone and it was running Windows 10. Only after I updated the system did I realise that Dell have done a terrible job with their Wi-Fi driver. A bit later I installed Mint and it now runs beautifully, despite the outdated specs. Handy for getting some work done on the go, and with TeamViewer installed I can remotely connect to my main machine at home and it's like I'm in front of my computer.

 

I'll stick with Windows 10 on my main machine, but Linux is definitely an amazing OS if you are willing to give it a go. (Y)

I have to ask this, but you dug out a "crappy" laptop that already had Windows 10 on it and it had outdated specs? I don't know you personally, but I find it hard to believe it was really that outdated! Going by what most people here think is outdated, you'd never be able to use a few of the machines I am finally getting around to replacing, but have been using them for years! The laptop I'm on now is from around 2005, or so, and only has 2gb memory and a 1.5ghz cpu, but runs Lubuntu pretty darn good. Main thing that sucks on it is the 10/100 network card. Granted, I don't do much strenuous activity on here, but.... It is getting replaced tomorrow.

 

Anytime you want to donate that "outdated" system to some one, feel free to PM me!! :)

 

I've always thought of myself as being pretty decent at keeping older machines running pretty lean and mean, FWIW!! 

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Mindovermaster    1,736
16 minutes ago, cork1958 said:

I have to ask this, but you dug out a "crappy" laptop that already had Windows 10 on it and it had outdated specs? I don't know you personally, but I find it hard to believe it was really that outdated! Going by what most people here think is outdated, you'd never be able to use a few of the machines I am finally getting around to replacing, but have been using them for years! The laptop I'm on now is from around 2005, or so, and only has 2gb memory and a 1.5ghz cpu, but runs Lubuntu pretty darn good. Main thing that sucks on it is the 10/100 network card. Granted, I don't do much strenuous activity on here, but.... It is getting replaced tomorrow.

 

Anytime you want to donate that "outdated" system to some one, feel free to PM me!! :)

 

I've always thought of myself as being pretty decent at keeping older machines running pretty lean and mean, FWIW!! 

Of course Lubuntu works like a dream. It's a low-graphics DE...

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cork1958    1,604
36 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

Of course Lubuntu works like a dream. It's a low-graphics DE...

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I was just saying that I bet Nick's "outdated" laptop would totally blow this machine away. Nick's machine probably runs Windows 10 blazing fast compared to what this one would, for sure. If it was donated to me, I would either leave it alone and donate it to one of the old folks I work with that could use a decent computer or, install Linux on it and teach them how to use it. Already have some one who wants this computer, that I will gladly donate it to when I get the new one tomorrow. Have made a lot of great friends turning people on to older, but usable machines over the course of time. :)

 

Was not implying anything personal or anything at all so I hope what I said isn't taken wrong.

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Mindovermaster    1,736
1 hour ago, cork1958 said:

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I was just saying that I bet Nick's "outdated" laptop would totally blow this machine away. Nick's machine probably runs Windows 10 blazing fast compared to what this one would, for sure. If it was donated to me, I would either leave it alone and donate it to one of the old folks I work with that could use a decent computer or, install Linux on it and teach them how to use it. Already have some one who wants this computer, that I will gladly donate it to when I get the new one tomorrow. Have made a lot of great friends turning people on to older, but usable machines over the course of time. :)

 

Was not implying anything personal or anything at all so I hope what I said isn't taken wrong.

I was just running on your

 

"The laptop I'm on now is from around 2005, or so, and only has 2gb memory and a 1.5ghz cpu, but runs Lubuntu pretty darn good."

 

Lubuntu is meant for lower specced systems. ;)

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+DevTech    1,512
3 hours ago, cork1958 said:

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I was just saying that I bet Nick's "outdated" laptop would totally blow this machine away. Nick's machine probably runs Windows 10 blazing fast compared to what this one would, for sure. If it was donated to me, I would either leave it alone and donate it to one of the old folks I work with that could use a decent computer or, install Linux on it and teach them how to use it. Already have some one who wants this computer, that I will gladly donate it to when I get the new one tomorrow. Have made a lot of great friends turning people on to older, but usable machines over the course of time. :)

 

Was not implying anything personal or anything at all so I hope what I said isn't taken wrong.

 

2 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

I was just running on your

 

"The laptop I'm on now is from around 2005, or so, and only has 2gb memory and a 1.5ghz cpu, but runs Lubuntu pretty darn good."

 

Lubuntu is meant for lower specced systems. ;)

Ah well, don't matter Linux or Windows, if it don't have decent GPU so you can run some massively parallel shader code, it's just gonna be so agonizingly watch-your-paint-dry boring!

 

That being said, anything DX-9 or later (and corresponding GL level) is decent enough and that covers a lot of ground

 

I'm really writing this post backwards line by line meaning to say I use the GPU level as a kind of barometer as to whether an old computer still has some "legs" in it...

 

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Jose_49    999
On 11/5/2018 at 11:12 AM, Riva said:

Hello I have been toying with the idea of using Linux after been a Windows "fanatic" from 3.1 up to 10. After a lot of failed attempts on my physical PC and a lot of playing around in VMs I have finally made the switch to Linux Mint 19 Cinnamon. Installation this time around was a lot smoother with everything working out of the box. Getting some games working with Wine and Lutris seemed a bit of a mess but it worked! My next step is getting a hypervisor worthy of hyper-v and I am all set. I do use VirtualBox to run a Windows 10 instance which I dont even use to be fair.

Things that ###### me off with Windows 10 specifically;

  • Constant collection of personal and private data into the cloud; from typing and handwriting to app and site visits.
  • Bad Q&A on semi-annual updates
  • Constant releases of drivers
  • Licensing with Windows 10 and Office
  • High memory usage when idle
  • Constant fear of trojans, bad websites and rogue ads

As an added bonus, the PC now really does boot up automatically at 8am. This wasnt working with Windows 10 and I assumed it was an EFI issue but it does work under Linux. It could really be an issue with secureboot in the firmware.

  

I'm glad that you're liking it :)

 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents:

 

  • "Unused RAM goes to waste". Windows 10 doesn't have "high memory usage when idle". It's caching the most frequent programs in memory so you can resume it faster than reading it from the disk. Whenever a program that requires RAM needs it, Windows will free up the memory and give it to the request. This is a technique that's being used in Mac OS for many years.
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Riva    1,101
11 hours ago, Jose_49 said:

I'm glad that you're liking it :)

 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents:

 

  • "Unused RAM goes to waste". Windows 10 doesn't have "high memory usage when idle". It's caching the most frequent programs in memory so you can resume it faster than reading it from the disk. Whenever a program that requires RAM needs it, Windows will free up the memory and give it to the request. This is a technique that's being used in Mac OS for many years.

Thats not what i noticed with Hyper-V, i end up manually freeing up ram when i need it.

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Mindovermaster    1,736
11 hours ago, Jose_49 said:

I'm glad that you're liking it :)

 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents:

 

  • "Unused RAM goes to waste". Windows 10 doesn't have "high memory usage when idle". It's caching the most frequent programs in memory so you can resume it faster than reading it from the disk. Whenever a program that requires RAM needs it, Windows will free up the memory and give it to the request. This is a technique that's being used in Mac OS for many years.

That's not true, actually, your system uses it as needed.

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+DevTech    1,512
14 hours ago, Jose_49 said:

I'm glad that you're liking it :)

 

Just wanted to add my 2 cents:

 

  • "Unused RAM goes to waste". Windows 10 doesn't have "high memory usage when idle". It's caching the most frequent programs in memory so you can resume it faster than reading it from the disk. Whenever a program that requires RAM needs it, Windows will free up the memory and give it to the request. This is a technique that's being used in Mac OS for many years.

 

2 hours ago, Riva said:

Thats not what i noticed with Hyper-V, i end up manually freeing up ram when i need it.

 

2 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

That's not true, actually, your system uses it as needed.

OK - so that exchange has left the actual facts looking very muddy

 

FACT: Windows 10 has an amazingly sophisticated kernel that uses every last bit of RAM for something at all times.

 

The problem is your own mental model and fortunately for the rest of us, the silicon follows the code, not how anyone else "thinks" it should be working.

 

There is essentially NO "idle" - even when a Win 10 computer is turned OFF, the O/S constantly wakes up and checks if anything is needed to be done, including background updates across WiFi or LAN while OFF - "Connected Standby"

 

During normal operations, the RAM is constantly being filled by "PreFetch" activity based on commonly used programs, and commonly used patterns of using those programs (intelligently informed by all that instrumentation code the nutters freak about in WIndows 10)

 

Even the browser will PreFetch web pages and cache them in RAM just in case you click on a link, again using habit patterns and history to judge which ones make sense.

 

Of course if you turn off all the background processing and instrumentation and history that makes all this work intelligently because you mistakenly think Microsoft gives a crap about what you buy on eBay, then you will never see any of this "magic" working for you and will get a glorious "shoot yourself in the foot" vindication of a mental bubble that RAM is somehow being WASTED on idle...

 

 

 

 

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adrynalyne    11,261
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

That's not true, actually, your system uses it as needed.

 @Jose_49 is correct. 

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adrynalyne    11,261
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, DevTech said:

 

 

 

There is essentially NO "idle" - even when a Win 10 computer is turned OFF, the O/S constantly wakes up and checks if anything is needed to be done, including background updates across WiFi or LAN while OFF - "Connected Standby"

 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s not true unless it is a PC specifically designed with Windows 10 in mind and supports Connected Standby. Even then, if the machine is off, it stays off. If it’s in standby, it will do as you said. 

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+DevTech    1,512
13 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

That’s not true unless it is a PC specifically designed with Windows 10 in mind and supports Connected Standby. Even then, if the machine is off, it stays off. If it’s in standby, it will do as you said. 

Every time we add a fine distinction to be more accurate, it bubbles up the abstraction tree to confuse the previously explained broader picture.

 

So I was going against my nature and trying to simplify the explanation FWIW. Given that people in this thread were confusing the simple stuff, a machine in Connected Standby appears to the normal person's observation to be OFF.

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Nick H.    9,448
On 1/2/2019 at 4:12 AM, cork1958 said:

I have to ask this, but you dug out a "crappy" laptop that already had Windows 10 on it and it had outdated specs? I don't know you personally, but I find it hard to believe it was really that outdated! Going by what most people here think is outdated, you'd never be able to use a few of the machines I am finally getting around to replacing, but have been using them for years! The laptop I'm on now is from around 2005, or so, and only has 2gb memory and a 1.5ghz cpu, but runs Lubuntu pretty darn good. Main thing that sucks on it is the 10/100 network card. Granted, I don't do much strenuous activity on here, but.... It is getting replaced tomorrow.

 

Anytime you want to donate that "outdated" system to some one, feel free to PM me!! :)

 

I've always thought of myself as being pretty decent at keeping older machines running pretty lean and mean, FWIW!! 

Perhaps "outdated" was the wrong word to use. It's probably about 3 or 4 years old, and it only has 4GB RAM and an Intel graphics card. My main laptop - which is about 2 years older - has 16GB RAM and some sort of Nvidia card, which is why I considered the second laptop "outdated." Maybe a better phrase would have been "underpowered compared to today's standards."

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