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Explorer can't see networked/mapped drives.... again.

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xMorpheousx416    20

Alright.. kinda at a loss for a solution.

 

Updated all four computers on my home network to 17763.316.  

Prior to the update, Explorer had no issues seeing all the networked drives/folders that have been shared.  And this goes for all four computers, as now, none of them can see any other comp on the network.

 

The modem's internal map shows all the devices.

DOS can ping all internal IPs.

I installed Advanced IP Scanner, and that has no issues connecting to any drive across the network.  Including those, that Explorer has issues with.  For ex:  If I share a folder, Explorer will see it.  If I share a drive, Explorer will pop up and say there's a "computer naming" issue, and cannot connect.  Works perfect in the scanner program.  I tested AIS on a second computer, it shows and allows access to every shared folder.

All computers are on the same internal network, renamed from the default WORKGROUP.

 

I've reset the router twice.  Made sure all network settings are set to share (without login/pw).  

SMB v1.0 is only active on my main PC, because I use it to connect VLC on my phone to the drives on the comp that contain movies/shows.  Hasn't been an issue, so I'll leave that alone for now.

 

In Explorer, when you click on the Network icon, it scans the network, but only shows:
Media Devices - PowerDVD 18

Network Infrastructure - CenturyLink modem

and on occasion (which I've never understood) random devices like phones, TVs, or other NAS/computers.

 

Security software - Windows Defender/AV; Malwarebytes Pro; Windows Firewall.

 

Any thoughts?

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+jnelsoninjax    10,999

What happens when you try to access the computers using the internal IP address? Try typing the \\ and then the systems address like 192.168.1.1 or whatever you have it set to.

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xMorpheousx416    20
3 hours ago, jnelsoninjax said:

What happens when you try to access the computers using the internal IP address? Try typing the \\ and then the systems address like 192.168.1.1 or whatever you have it set to.

Same thing happens as if I was using the scanner program.  It shows the folder/drives on the other computer, giving me access.  

 

For the time being, I guess I can use either option until MS changes something again.

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+jnelsoninjax    10,999
40 minutes ago, xMorpheousx416 said:

Same thing happens as if I was using the scanner program.  It shows the folder/drives on the other computer, giving me access.  

 

For the time being, I guess I can use either option until MS changes something again.

This seems to be an issue with Windows, I have the same issue, but since adding an NAS, there is not any need to access the individual systems.

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+BudMan    3,332

Prob has something to do with name resolution and possible ipv6 vs ipv4

 

So when you ping the computer name, does it come back with ipv4 or ipv6 address?

 

So your saying if you do \\IPv4address it works.. but if you do \\nameofcomputer it doesn't work?

 

Or you saying just when you "browse" via your network it doesn't work?

NN.thumb.png.4ed2102cf4b100b2ca4864b60478ef45.png

 

So if you click there it doesn't work, but if you do \\IP or \\Name it works?

 

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xMorpheousx416    20
On 2/15/2019 at 3:59 PM, jnelsoninjax said:

This seems to be an issue with Windows, I have the same issue, but since adding an NAS, there is not any need to access the individual systems.

I have that option as well.  I can use either of two external drives and attach them to the modem.  Unfortunately, that's only for files to watch on any system, or access per se.  However, I don't like to take up space on those drives for temporary installation programs or updates.  Those I just send directly to the Temp folders.

 

12 hours ago, BudMan said:

Prob has something to do with name resolution and possible ipv6 vs ipv4

 

So when you ping the computer name, does it come back with ipv4 or ipv6 address?

 

So your saying if you do \\IPv4address it works.. but if you do \\nameofcomputer it doesn't work?

 

Or you saying just when you "browse" via your network it doesn't work?

NN.thumb.png.4ed2102cf4b100b2ca4864b60478ef45.png

 

So if you click there it doesn't work, but if you do \\IP or \\Name it works?

 

I can do either \\192.168.0.*** and it will show up in Explorer as the IP then open the window showing all the shared folders.  If I do \\NAME it shows the name, and then the folders.  

 

What gets me, is that the address bar works if manually configured, it's what change(s) made to any files during that last update, that keeps me from clicking on the Network icon in Explorer (down at the bottom of the list) and then seeing the folders.

 

Back in the XP days, I used to be able to share an entire drive (shown left side in pic 1), by going to Properties, Share, and voila.. access to the entire drive.  Since 7, (or maybe Vista, don't know).. this has changed.  Only folders have the direct Share button under Properties (shown right side in pic 1).  Which, to put it mildly, pisses me off.  

 

The second pic, is Explorer scanning the Network, but only showing devices previously mentioned.  .. That phone??  That's a "ghost" device as I said earlier, some, random, unknown, device(s) that just show up.  Most often, it's a TV, or another computer... to which, none of those ghost devices ever show up in the modem's networking map.

Image1.jpg

Untitled.jpg

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xMorpheousx416    20

To visually answer.. first pic IP, second NAME.  This is the PC that I use on the network, connected to our TV and stereo.  Basically an HTPC, but ran strictly via VLC and remote software.

 

I really appreciate the replies!  Sometimes, MS changes just one thing, and it may or even may not be directly related to any given system, or subsystem, but... alas, a simple registry change or the like, and poof...... what worked, suddenly doesn't.

 

And.. this is that kind of "hey, this is RIGHT in front of you!.. how did that escape QA?"

2.jpg

3.jpg

 

 

Oh.. and just to finish another thought.  Those two folders marked "D" and "G" .. those were my first attempts at sharing the actual drive thru Properties.  Advanced IP Scanner can open those via Explorer with no issues.  If I try to use Explorer itself, and double click the icons, it will say "Windows cannot connect to the following device".  And the error resolves an internal computer naming issue.  I've had this issue since switching to Windows 10, so.. not on the top of my list to even consider figuring out.

Edited by xMorpheousx416
added info

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xMorpheousx416    20

5.jpg

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+BudMan    3,332

You do understand that sharing whole drives was shut down YEARS ago right..

 

This clearly to be honest is WAD.. And it seems you just don't understand permissions and sharing - no offense..

 

If you want to enable sharing whole drives - then google enabled admin shares.

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xMorpheousx416    20
4 hours ago, BudMan said:

You do understand that sharing whole drives was shut down YEARS ago right..

 

This clearly to be honest is WAD.. And it seems you just don't understand permissions and sharing - no offense..

 

If you want to enable sharing whole drives - then google enabled admin shares.

Yes.. I answered that in a previous post.  XP had that option, than after Vista.. it was removed.  Please read the actual responses before any further conjecture.  No offense.

 

I enabled the entire drive to be shared by adding the network admin rights to the Permissions section.  I can fully access those with either the scanner program, or using the manual process of entering the IP address or name after \\.  Which was also stated.  What still cannot be done, is just opening Explorer and double clicking on those drive icons... that brings up the error. 

 

I added that info to complete the picture of the many issues I've had to work around just to compensate for the 316 update.

 

So.. in conclusion, until MS completes it's work on 1809, and releases 19H1, I will have to use the manual steering component in the address bar.

 

Case closed.

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+BudMan    3,332
9 hours ago, xMorpheousx416 said:

I enabled the entire drive to be shared by adding the network admin rights to the Permissions section.

That is NOT how you do it.. 

 

And btw which permissions?  Share or NTFS, etc.  Again I suggest you google for how to do what your asking to do vs saying the version of the OS broke anything.

 

edit:  BTW... So just made sure both my machine and my VM test win10 box on the 17763.316 build... I enabled admin shares on VM and boom hit C$ with full access to the whole drive.. So yeah working exactly like before.  If you want to share a drive out like d:  You could just hit via the admin share of d$ or if you want to actually share it out, then you have to adjust the ntfs permissions and the share permissions, etc..

 

This hasn't changed in YEARS!!

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xMorpheousx416    20
8 hours ago, BudMan said:

That is NOT how you do it.. 

 

And btw which permissions?  Share or NTFS, etc.  Again I suggest you google for how to do what your asking to do vs saying the version of the OS broke anything.

 

edit:  BTW... So just made sure both my machine and my VM test win10 box on the 17763.316 build... I enabled admin shares on VM and boom hit C$ with full access to the whole drive.. So yeah working exactly like before.  If you want to share a drive out like d:  You could just hit via the admin share of d$ or if you want to actually share it out, then you have to adjust the ntfs permissions and the share permissions, etc..

 

This hasn't changed in YEARS!!

I offer an apology, Budman.  I know that's not how YOU did it.. but since you asked how I did it.

 

G > Properties > Sharing tab.  Advanced sharing.  Check 'Share this Folder'.  Set Permissions to Everybody, and select Full boxes.  

 

No.. it doesn't work for just double clicking on the icon in Explorer, I mentioned that.  Twice.  But it does work in the program Advanced IP Scanner, and if I type in the path to the drive manually.

 

Pics shown from PC number 1, and 2. 

 

I understand that you want me to Google on how to permit full drive access, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

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xMorpheousx416    20

What did break, in 316... is that Explorer NO LONGER scans the network, and shows the drives/folders like it did prior to the update.  I cannot just click on that Network icon and see them any more.  I have to manually add the \\NAME or \\192.168 as you posted in your first reply.

 

That helped.  But arguing over you saying potAto and me saying pOtatoh.. isn't going to go any further than this reply.

 

I do appreciate your replies and feedback.

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+BudMan    3,332

Sorry that isnt broken either... Not saying you don't have some issues..

 

Not sure what you did to your system... But network works just fine showing me all the boxes sharing with SMB..  And yes the other win 10 box sharing.

 

There is my win 10 vm running that specific build, I can see it - I can click on it - and I can access the F drive I shared, etc.

 

discoverywin10boxes.thumb.png.8da395310f2b49c2e2dee3d8b4de2eed.png

 

So if you want to trouble shoot your actual issue.. We can do that - but lack of understanding of how something works doesn't mean MS broke anything ;)

 

What discovery methods do you have enabled?  Notice mine are discovered via WSD.. Maybe you turn it off, or maybe you have some firewall blocking discovery, etc. etc.  Maybe these are all wireless and your wireless is blocking WS-Discovery? 

 

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xMorpheousx416    20
Quote

but lack of understanding of how something works doesn't mean MS broke anything

 

Let's get something straight.  

Since you don't know me, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  I've been in the tech support business for over 20 years.  I know what I'm talking about, when I go to describe a situation that I am facing.  I build my own PCs, and know them inside and out.  When I update/upgrade, and something that I use all the time suddenly doesn't, I know to back track to the most recent list of change(s).  So.. if we can get past the fact that you keep reiterating your beliefs that I do not understand how systems work, we just might be able to get a bigger picture of any change.  Deal?

Second point.  If there's one thing that's long in the tooth, is saying that "hey, it works perfect for me" doesn't mean squat.  Your system is completely different than mine, regardless of the OS running the show.  

 

In further testing, I fired up PC number 4 (Charvel).  A Dell laptop also running 316, on a WiFi connection.  My main PC (PC 1) automatically brought it up under Networks when it connected.  PCs 2 and 3 still did not.  Still don't even after a refresh.  PCs 1(Morph)/2(Keelee)/3(Zane) are all hardwired to the modem.  So.. there's a thought to explore.  Wifi shows up, but LAN does not.

When I add them manually, they show up under the Network list, but not as icons in the main Explorer window.  

Standard discovery methods in Network and Internet settings:

Network discovery > Automatic Setup > File and Printer sharing.

Windows Firewall is On.

SMB is only enabled on PC 1.

 

(note: IP address ending in .22 is ZANE)

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

Edited by xMorpheousx416
grammar

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xMorpheousx416    20

Here's the network view from the Dell laptop.

 

Exactly the same as PC 1, 2 and 3.

 

 

Untitled.jpg

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+BudMan    3,332
22 hours ago, xMorpheousx416 said:

SMB is only enabled on PC 1.

Huh?  How do you think these thing shares?  Do you mean you have smbv1 enabled and the others are using 2 and 3?  You mentioned that before - we know your shares are working because you can access them directly.. Your problem is discovery it seems

 

But yes smbV1 was disabled out of the box a while ago..  Should of been disabled YEARS ago before MS finally got around to pushing the disable out.

 

So if your having trouble with discovery, I would troubleshoot that vs blaming MS for breaking something.. Sorry but this works out of the box!  The old method computer browsing is gone... You need to validate that ws-discovery is going to work, etc.  Or your going to have to make sure something is running master browser on your network if you want to use that method, etc.

 

Here I set my NAS to be a master browser - you can see it call for an election

MBenabled.thumb.png.c742266cd607d349be0604e665c33993.png

 

You do understand that wsd is multicast probe.. So as you mention wireless devices.  Its quite possible your wireless network is blocking the multicast, or has problems with it.. Are you running any sort of IGMP snooping, etc. Just because you turn on network discovery doesn't mean its actually running... Did you verify the depend services are running?  Quite often that can be a problem..

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2722035/you-cannot-turn-on-network-discovery-in-network-and-sharing-center-in

 

Why don't you just sniff and actually verify. No offense dude but if you have been doing this for 20 years.. Why are you here even asking such a basic troubleshooting thing?

For example you scan see the probes going out multicast to 3702, you can see the answers come back directed

wsd.thumb.png.7ba5153ad5c49d0ceae90a87f2e2f6e1.png

 

Once a box see an answer to its probe, it will make a connection to 5357 directed.

5357.thumb.png.059da04929a54b6c1fded9d39bbabea8.png

 

Here this might help get you started.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/wsdapi/troubleshooting-function-discovery-clients

 

Not sure what your exact issue is - but sorry this all works fine out of the box on this build.  My PC is running that build, and my VM is running that build and everything works fine.. You have an issue with discovery if your not seeing the clients listed in network but can access them directly... So troubleshoot that vs blaming it on your build..

 

Lets be clear on what discovery method(s) you want to be using on your network... And then troubleshoot why they are not working for some reason.

 

From your screen shot looks like UPnP/SSDP is working - maybe only wired?  You have not given a good description of your network connectivity for all these clients, etc. But WSD is different than SSDP discovery..  For all we know your other boxes are behind some wireless router natting, etc. etc. I would be more than happy to help you troubleshoot your actual problem.. But going to need more than a screenshot showing nothing other than yeah your not seeing your other boxes.

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xMorpheousx416    20
Quote

 Do you mean you have smbv1 enabled and the others are using 2 and 3?  You mentioned that before - we know your shares are working because you can access them directly.. Your problem is discovery it seems.

Ok.  I have certain folders shared across all four PCs.  I use VLC Android on my Android based phones.  Prior to 1809, VLC had no issues when:  Opening VLC, click on the menu, choose Network, and voila, it would see all the networked drives.  Post 1809, it no longer does this.  It will just sit and spin.. literally, as the icon is a spinning arrow.  I asked in the VLC forums, and was told to check the SMB1.0 box under Turn On Windows Features... when I did, VLC can see the Default shared folder, but no longer sees any shared folder under User named folders, logins, etc... but that's no longer an issue, as I've moved what movies my kid wants to see under the Default user temp directory, and VLC is once again happy.

 

Quote

 I would troubleshoot that vs blaming MS for breaking something.. Sorry but this works out of the box!

 

That's why I am here.  I never mentioned that MS broke anything.  I ask questions because technology changes, and as such, MS will add things, turn on things, turn off things, disable, and/ or remove things.

 

Quote

Are you running any sort of IGMP snooping, etc. Just because you turn on network discovery doesn't mean its actually running... Did you verify the depend services are running?  Quite often that can be a problem..
Why don't you just sniff and actually verify. No offense dude but if you have been doing this for 20 years.. Why are you here even asking such a basic troubleshooting thing?

Again.. that's why I am posting here to Neowin.  This site is notorious for having members that span the vast empire of knowledge when it comes to both major components of the computing world.  Hardware, and software.

No.. I don't use any snooping software.  

When it comes to "out of the box", that's how I set things up.  Take it out of the box, plug it in, turn things on.. and expect to make a few adjustments, but then  (to quote Steve Jobs) "it just works".  Well, you and I both know, that this isn't always the case.

Each one of my PCs, followed these steps:

Hardware build.

Software install.

Connect to the network.

Turn on Network Discovery.

Set up Shared folders.

 

Just your typical steps that most of us here, do in our sleep.  :) 

 

Quote

Not sure what your exact issue is - but sorry this all works fine out of the box on this build.  My PC is running that build, and my VM is running that build and everything works fine.. You have an issue with discovery if your not seeing the clients listed in network but can access them directly... So troubleshoot that vs blaming it on your build..

 

Exactly.  I am not sure what it is either.  When following the basic 1, 2 step procedures for getting your basic home network set up, and it works.. to suddenly have it not working after an update, or upgrade, begs the questions I posed.  "Does anyone see something that I do not?"  And.. to top it off, it's only that ONE thing!  Clicking that icon and not seeing the network, but manually entering them, works as if there's no issue.  If I leave Explorer open, the computers remain.  If I close it, I have to re-add them manually... which isn't a pain, Explorer remembers the \\ drive paths.

 

When it comes to my experience with systems, think of me as a member of a race team.  Jack of all trades, but master of none.  My job is to tear down the beast, or put it together, but there are members of the team that analyze data.. and when it comes to more in depth analysis, that's no my forte.  Hence, again, my post(s) here.  I could have easily posted this on Guru3D, and not caught as much flak for my reasons why I am asking questions.  

 

I appreciate your experience, and your replies.  When I get a chance, I'll try to follow along with those suggestions.. but you have me thinking that it may be a communications issue with the router, with what you mentioned, and my question on "why does the WiFi connected PC show up, but the LAN connected ones do not unless manually entered?"

 

All connections to the router are "out of the box".  I've touched nothing beyond it's plug n play options.

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+BudMan    3,332

Well do a simple sniff for the wsd probes.. See them go out on client A (wireless)?  But not see them on the wired client B?  Sniff on both A and B... They both sending the multicast problems - but the other side not seeing them, if doesn't see the probe, then will never answer directed response - then yeah all breaks down.

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DaveLegg    953

Silly basic question: Do you have your network set as a private rather than public network? Windows will block a lot of the discovery stuff on a public network.

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xMorpheousx416    20
Quote

Well do a simple sniff for the wsd probes.. See them go out on client A (wireless)?  But not see them on the wired client B?  Sniff on both A and B... They both sending the multicast problems - but the other side not seeing them, if doesn't see the probe, then will never answer directed response - then yeah all breaks down.

I will give that a go, the next time I have issues with it... as the mystery continues.

 

Not sure how, why.. but after my usual day of encoding, and sending files across the network (having kept Explorer open), I seen there was a Windows update to install during a reboot that was required updating another program.  Going from 316 to 346, and a restart, it's all back to the way it was prior to 316.  

After logging back in, I opened Explorer to set up a movie to watch, and seen that all the computers were back under the Network icon, as well as the folder window.

 

I'll let sleeping dogs lie for the moment... but I will keep all the info you gave me in case it rears it's ugly head again.

Thank you, I do appreciate your time.

 

Quote

Silly basic question: Do you have your network set as a private rather than public network? Windows will block a lot of the discovery stuff on a public network.

Correct.  I have all of them set to private.

 

Pic shown from PC 1 (main PC).

Untitled.jpg

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+BudMan    3,332

And what is the discovery method your using to find those.. If you change your view to detail and list the different columns you can see the discovery method.

 

discoverymethod.thumb.png.117469c3b88850d981437a2619e6f4f3.png

 

I just did a check and don't see that build listed as update.. You running insider?

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xMorpheousx416    20

I see that your's is listed as WSD, whereas mine only has PC 4 (the laptop connected via WiFi) as WSD, the LANs are using NetBIOS.  Maybe that is the issue?  I haven't made any manual changes to how they are discovered.. should I switch to WSD as default instead of NetBIOS?  I know disabling NB can cause it to break a few things, so maybe just turning off Computer Browsing?  What works for you the best?

 

Quote

I just did a check and don't see that build listed as update.. You running insider?

Yes.  I'm only on the ring selected for fixes, apps and drivers.

Untitled.jpg

1.jpg

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+BudMan    3,332

So you got a real mix there, Netbios should really be deprecated.. Which box was that taken on, I take it charvel?

 

Windows Connect Now even.. I really would pick which discovery method you want to use, and make sure the others are not used.  Atleast when it not working you know what to look for, etc.

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xMorpheousx416    20

I'll make some adjustments to have them all on the same discovery mode.

 

All screenshots, with the exception of one, are taken from the main PC 1 aka Morph.  Easier for me to test new software updates, and roll back a single system, then to have them corrupt all four if something goes wrong.

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