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Logitech C922x Streaming webcam and multiple Windows 10 PCs

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PGHammer    1,329

I ordered earlier today a Logitech C922x streaming webcam for use with multiple PCs (two desktops and three notebooks).  One desktop (primary) has no webcam at all, while the other desktop (i3-based AIO) and all three notebooks have built-in webcams.  The primary software used will be Skype; alternatively, I would like to use Windows 10's facial recognition on all except the AIO.  Windows 10 Pro x64 is installed on all the PCs.    What should I expect at 720p?

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Mindovermaster    1,726

I'm not sure on this, but to better help others, what version of Windows 10 is that? 1803, 1809. etc?

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PGHammer    1,329
1 hour ago, Mindovermaster said:

I'm not sure on this, but to better help others, what version of Windows 10 is that? 1803, 1809. etc?

1803 on the AIO, but 18875 everywhere else.

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PGHammer    1,329
Posted (edited)

The desktop and most-used notebook have 18875 on them (SkipAhead); the other notebooks are in the Fast Ring (1809), and the AIO belongs to Mom and has 1803 on it.  All the notebooks (and Mom's AIO) have webcams already; the Logitech would (naturally) be a temporary upgrade for them. The webcam itself just arrived, and is physically connected to the desktop.  (It is clamped to the TV (acting as display) and thus is as stable as the TV itself is (after everything boots up, I will adjust the location physically).  I am not new to either webcams in general (or Logitech webcams in particular); I used to have a Communicate STX "back in the day" - and by that I mean back when Windows NT 4.0 was in flower; however, since said Communicate STX, they have typically been low-end - a Creative WebCamNX was the highest-end webcam I had ever owned since the STX.  720p?  Don't be silly; I never had THAT much webcam at my disposal.

 

About the webcam itself physically - the cord attached is actually of decent length (longer than I expected); it reaches easily from the mount to the desktop (and to the rear, where the USB ports of the desktop are - both 2.x and 3.0 ports are available).  Of the other PCs, only one of my notebooks, and Mom's AIO. also have USB 3.0 ports available; however, all have USB 2.x ports on call - so that should be no problem.  Skype (as expected) had no problems detecting the webcam, and the picture - even at the defaults - was sharper than  box of thumbtacks.  (That takes getting used to - it was never that sharp with the Communicate STX.)

 

So far, the only issue I am having is configuring Windows Hello to use it (desktop); I suspect a port issue.  (While Windows detects the camera just fine - considering Skype has no issues with it - it may be the particular port causing issues with Windows Hello.  I'll be running further tests with my notebook, which is running the same version of Windows 10 Pro, albeit with worse hardware other than the camera itself.)

 

Still, this camera is a joy to use for the most part; I am NOT having the issues that others have had that bought the camera earlier in the the release cycle.

Edited by PGHammer
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PGHammer    1,329
Posted (edited)

Follow-up: For some strange reason, Amazon sent me *two* C922x webcams (despite my only ordering one), so I tried the second one for my notebooks - and ran into a ton of issues.  Not with the webcam - but with the notebooks.  My main notebook has a built-in webcam, and I wanted to use the C922x as an upgrade for it.  No such luck - crappy USB ports.  (Older notebook.)  Next, I went to an ASUS notebook - this one an i3 (Sandy Bridge); however, it has a different issue - a problematical power brick. (Grrrrr.)  Lastly, I broke out the oldest notebook - Athlon XP CPU and nVidia 730a (as in Athlon) chipset and nVidia 6100 graphics.  While it is running Windows 10 Pro, due to the old chipset and graphics, it has not been updated since the Anniversary Update.  (However, the older version of Windows 10 Pro could explain an issue I ran into on my desktop (and looking at complaints on tech support fora - including that of Logitech itself) specifically with Windows Hello - apparently a recent update broke the Windows Hello Face support for the C9xx series webcams, and basically forced owners to replace them with either Intel RealSense or Logitech BRIO to use with Windows Hello.  (The issue ONLY affects Windows Hello Face (facial recognition); the other webcam features work fine.)

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Jim K    12,612

You can't use that camera for Windows Hello...nor could you ever. 

 

Remember, you can't just use any camera for Hello ... it has to have infrared sensors in order to recognize your face (i.e. Intel RealSense).

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PGHammer    1,329
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Jim K said:

You can't use that camera for Windows Hello.  Remember, you can't just use any camera for Hello ... it has to have infrared sensors in order to recognize your face (i.e. Intel RealSense).

That is the case now, Jim K. - it was not always the case.  The change happened with 1809 (after the C920 shipped, but prior to the C922x).  The only webcams NOT affected by this are the Intel RealSense 200 and the Razer Stargazer (as both were specifically authorized by this change, due to their IR-sensing capabilities).  This change also bit several Microsoft Surface Pro and Surface Book PCs.  What the change did was make IR-sensing a *requirement* for Windows Hello Face support (hence the much tougher requirement - which the C9xx no longer meets).  The BRIO includes the new capability, but requires a software patch to support it; the patch is available via Logitech support.  You probably COULD use the C922x with Windows Hello with older versions of Windows 10 (prior to the update); this is something I will check, as Mom's AIO and her notebook are not among those with this update.  The webcam, in fact, works a treat otherwise.  Where I am curious is the case with other IR-supporting facial-recognition webcams (such as the Mouse FR100 webcam) that may have worked great with Windows Hello, but fell short in terms of the usual uses for a webcam (such as streaming or Skype).

 

This is the type of webcam I am referring to: https://smile.amazon.com/Updated-Recognition-Anti-Spoofing-Microphone-CM02/

 

It can indeed function as a dedicated camera for Windows Hello (Windows 10, in fact, specifically allows for this), and it therefore need not replace an existing webcam (such as a C920 or C922) for other usage; however, I want to be sure it didn't get broken by the same update.

Edited by PGHammer

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Jim K    12,612
36 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

That is the case now, Jim K. - it was not always the case.  The change happened with 1809 (after the C920 shipped, but prior to the C922x).  The only webcams NOT affected by this are the Intel RealSense 200 and the Razer Stargazer (as both were specifically authorized by this change, due to their IR-sensing capabilities).  This change also bit several Microsoft Surface Pro and Surface Book PCs.  What the change did was make IR-sensing a *requirement* for Windows Hello Face support (hence the much tougher requirement - which the C9xx no longer meets).  The BRIO includes the new capability, but requires a software patch to support it; the patch is available via Logitech support.  You probably COULD use the C922x with Windows Hello with older versions of Windows 10 (prior to the update); this is something I will check, as Mom's AIO and her notebook are not among those with this update.  The webcam, in fact, works a treat otherwise.  Where I am curious is the case with other IR-supporting facial-recognition webcams (such as the Mouse FR100 webcam) that may have worked great with Windows Hello, but fell short in terms of the usual uses for a webcam (such as streaming or Skype).

 

This is the type of webcam I am referring to: https://smile.amazon.com/Updated-Recognition-Anti-Spoofing-Microphone-CM02/

 

It can indeed function as a dedicated camera for Windows Hello (Windows 10, in fact, specifically allows for this), and it therefore need not replace an existing webcam (such as a C920 or C922) for other usage; however, I want to be sure it didn't get broken by the same update.

OK?  Not sure where you are getting your history ... I'm just saying your camera never worked with Hello, it doesn't meet the requirements for Hello, nor was it ever advertised to work with Hello.

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PGHammer    1,329
2 minutes ago, Jim K said:

OK?  Not sure where you are getting your history ... I'm just saying your camera never worked with Hello, it doesn't meet the requirements for Hello, nor was it ever advertised to work with Hello.

I got the information from Logitech and other support pages; the anti-IR-spoofing support is a new requirement, added specifically FOR cameras such as the RealSense R200 and StarGazer (older cameras - such as the C920s - could indeed be spoofed; that is why the requirements for Windows Hello went up - there is an article in Microsoft's own KnowledgeBase that refers to it).  the problem (for C920s users) is that you now need to replace your webcam if you used it for Windows Hello prior to build 1809 - or purchase an add-on webcam specifically for Windows Hello.  How much do cameras such as the R200 and Stargazer cost?  Around $200 in the Stargazer's case (and that is from Amazon - IF you can find them in stock).  I don't hate them; however, they are far from cheap.  And if you don't need 4K, they are severe overkill, even for streaming.  A separate camera for Windows Hello - especially considering that the Mouse Systems CM-02 is under $70USD, and it need not replace your existing C9xx for anything, is certainly a cheaper alternative than either an R200 or Stargazer.

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Jim K    12,612

¯\_(ツ)_/¯  

 

20 minutes ago, Jim K said:

OK?  Not sure where you are getting your history ... I'm just saying your camera never worked with Hello, it doesn't meet the requirements for Hello, nor was it ever advertised to work with Hello.

 

LOL, I give up.

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PGHammer    1,329
3 minutes ago, Jim K said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯  

 

 

LOL, I give up.

Jim K - research it; that was how *I* tripped over the issue, and realized that a "simple" software fix would not fix it. (It affects all the C92x webcams; and also affects Microsoft's Surface Pro and Surface Book (which required firmware patches in some cases; in other cases, hardware had to be replaced)).

 

  If you are looking at changes from 1809 forward, that is when the change took place; Windows Hello was originally added with the Anniversary Update - this update was between the AU and 1809; it MAY have taken place as early as 1803.)  Still, as I have explained, the change *only* affects this one feature - the webcam works great AS a webcam otherwise.

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NinjaGinger    196

I have the BRIO and that doesn't work with Hello

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PGHammer    1,329
7 minutes ago, NinjaGinger said:

I have the BRIO and that doesn't work with Hello

There is a patch available for the BRIO via Logitech support.  It is specific to the BRIO (which actually *does* support anti-IR spoofing).  It adds a specific service driver for the BRIO webcam.

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goretsky    1,004

Hello,

 

All Windows Hello-compatible cameras that I'm aware of shipped with infra-red sensor(s) in addition to the normal CCD sensor used to capture video.  There are facial recognition systems that worked without IR sensors, such as Lenovo's VeriFace.  While it's not loading for me know, there was an interesting article in the July 2015 issue of Consumer's Digest which discussed the features of Windows Hello's facial recognition in some detail.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

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PGHammer    1,329
21 hours ago, goretsky said:

Hello,

 

All Windows Hello-compatible cameras that I'm aware of shipped with infra-red sensor(s) in addition to the normal CCD sensor used to capture video.  There are facial recognition systems that worked without IR sensors, such as Lenovo's VeriFace.  While it's not loading for me know, there was an interesting article in the July 2015 issue of Consumer's Digest which discussed the features of Windows Hello's facial recognition in some detail.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

The reason for the IR sensors is to not let the tech be spoofed (as Microsoft itself points out in the KB article referred to when they implement the update).  Also, you can simply *add* a separate camera for Windows Hello (Windows 10 actually allows for this); in fact, most streamers (and most reviewers) use multiple cameras (including *at the same time*) - in fact, look up every webcam reviewer that is ALSO a pro-streamer; they specifically refer to this option.  Right now, the odds-on favorite for use for Windows Hello (by itself) is the "cheapie" Mouse Systems CM-02.  (It is, in fact, an enhanced version of the ORIGINAL "cheapie" Mouse Systems FR100 (it has the same CCD camera that the original FR100 included - along with the anti-IR-spoofing technology that the RealSense R200 and Logitech BRIO both include), and it's barely more than the Logitech C922x on Amazon (and can back it up as a CCD camera - at least at 720p - however, it lacks the 720p/60 fps and 1080p/30 fps capabilities of the  C92x series camera).  In short, the flaw is fixable - and fixable for cheap.

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