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1903 v145 and SoundBlaster Z

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xMorpheousx416    64
5 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

Indeed, you can only configure Speakers device. It's creative tricking Windows into believing it is a 3.5MM cable setup, when it is TosLink. SPDIF-Out is technically only 2.0 uncompressed. But compressed 5.1 workls just fine, and I tested DTS/DD in SPDIF-Out's menu, and indeed all speakers work just fine. As does the surround coming from any source that sends compressed 5.1 signals. But as I said, Windows' encoders don't sound as good as Creative ones. At least to me.

One day, while taking the trash out.. I noticed someone had thrown away a Yamaha receiver.  Had the AM/FM tuner and cassette boxes with it.  Didn't think twice, just picked up the receiver and brought it in.

 

It was the first one I noticed that had native 6.1 inputs.  I never really looked for this option before when shopping for one, and at the time, wasn't really looking as I figured I'd just run the 5.1 sound thru the video card.  Found other issues that will keep me from putting a receiver between the PC and the monitor or TV.  

However, it would take three 1/8" to RCA adapters, but at least I wouldn't have to bother with digital knowing it was compressed 5.1.  I like my sounds live and as raw as possible.  

 

Unfortunately, she's no longer working.  It's an old model, not worth fixing.  Although the speakers I'm using are the 5300e series amp, I would love to have a 500/600w system behind it all.

htr-5940-rear.jpg

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DevTech    1,517
3 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

Indeed, you can only configure Speakers device. It's creative tricking Windows into believing it is a 3.5MM cable setup, when it is TosLink. SPDIF-Out is technically only 2.0 uncompressed. But compressed 5.1 workls just fine, and I tested DTS/DD in SPDIF-Out's menu, and indeed all speakers work just fine. As does the surround coming from any source that sends compressed 5.1 signals. But as I said, Windows' encoders don't sound as good as Creative ones. At least to me.

I think you might be wrong on a few items, but I can't be sure due to the heavily non-documented nature of a lot of this stuff.

 

1. SO, I was unclear about one thing - The SPDIF selection what currently enables my Optical Output! The optical cable is the ONLY thing going to my receiver.

 

2. Windows sends (live encoded or pass-through) 5.1 (etc) HD digital audio ONLY to HDMI video connections.

 

3. 2.0 digital is the FALLBACK if there is NO valid Dolby Digital Live license, which is the PRIMARY explanation for how people THINK that 5.1 is working when it actually isn't since many stereos take the 2.0 and convert to fake surround. Combine that with ALLOWED pass-trough of already encoded 5.1 Digital Audio in Video playback and the vast majority of people don't even realize that they have been "short changed"

 

4. The reason that science is using BLIND and DOUBLE-BLIND studies is Observer Bias which I think you might have. If you are getting any Dolby Digital Live signal out of your creative card it is coming from the Creative Hardware Encoder. To test this you must make sure you are using a source that is actually being Encoded Live for which Positional Audio in Games are the most certain.

 

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DevTech    1,517
5 minutes ago, xMorpheousx416 said:

One day, while taking the trash out.. I noticed someone had thrown away a Yamaha receiver.  Had the AM/FM tuner and cassette boxes with it.  Didn't think twice, just picked up the receiver and brought it in.

 

It was the first one I noticed that had native 6.1 inputs.  I never really looked for this option before when shopping for one, and at the time, wasn't really looking as I figured I'd just run the 5.1 sound thru the video card.  Found other issues that will keep me from putting a receiver between the PC and the monitor or TV.  

However, it would take three 1/8" to RCA adapters, but at least I wouldn't have to bother with digital knowing it was compressed 5.1.  I like my sounds live and as raw as possible.  

 

Unfortunately, she's no longer working.  It's an old model, not worth fixing.  Although the speakers I'm using are the 5300e series amp, I would love to have a 500/600w system behind it all.

htr-5940-rear.jpg

I have used both types of signals.

 

The digital signal has a very high Data Rate and the audio quality is superior to the separate analog signals due to S/N and also D/A artifacts.

 

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NickEclipse    3
3 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I think you might be wrong on a few items, but I can't be sure due to the heavily non-documented nature of a lot of this stuff.

 

1. SO, I was unclear about one thing - The SPDIF selection what currently enables my Optical Output! The optical cable is the ONLY thing going to my receiver.

 

2. Windows sends (live encoded or pass-through) 5.1 (etc) HD digital audio ONLY to HDMI video connections.

 

3. 2.0 digital is the FALLBACK if there is NO valid Dolby Digital Live license, which is the PRIMARY explanation for how people THINK that 5.1 is working when it actually isn't since many stereos take the 2.0 and convert to fake surround. Combine that with ALLOWED pass-trough of already encoded 5.1 Digital Audio in Video playback and the vast majority of people don't even realize that they have been "short changed"

 

4. The reason that science is using BLIND and DOUBLE-BLIND studies is Observer Bias which I think you might have. If you are getting any Dolby Digital Live signal out of your creative card it is coming from the Creative Hardware Encoder. To test this you must make sure you are using a source that is actually being Encoded Live for which Positional Audio in Games are the most certain.

 

I only have my Optical Cable going to my HT too. As I assume if I use HDMI through my Video Card, it will use NVIDIA drivers, and I'll loose Creative's features, such as Crystallization. I'm pretty sure I'm getting true 5.1 since I'm in Standard Surround Mode with Dolby Pro Logic II selected. I think what you mean by fake surround is when I'm on Advanced Surround Extreme Stereo mode for example. Which kind of "mirror" the sound coming from the front speakers to the rear speakers. And I'm not sure where the center speaker sound is coming from. I guess a mix of both left and right? I use that mode to listen to 2.0 music, as it sounds great that way.

So what you are saying is the DTS/DD Encoders I see in SPDIF-Out proprieties are the Creative ones? Since the test indeed work on all speakers independently. And I'm pretty sure the Positional Audio I get in games is true surround, not fake mirror surround, as I'm in Standard Surround mode on my HT, and it doesn't sound mirrored at all. I'm pretty sure if those encoders in SPDIF-Out are from Creative, they're still not the same as the those from the DTS Connect and DDL packs you get in SB's Control Panel, as it doesn't sound as good. It's still Positional Surround, it just doesn't sound as good. Distant and low sounds are quieter than before. But high and near sounds are still loud. Like gunfires and explosions.

In all honesty, it kind of sound more realistic that way than before. But I liked to hear my footsteps loudly like I was some kind of rhino. LOL Anyway, I'll get back on later, I have to go make diner. Thanks again guys for the interactions, it's quite interesting.

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DevTech    1,517
15 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

I only have my Optical Cable going to my HT too. As I assume if I use HDMI through my Video Card, it will use NVIDIA drivers, and I'll loose Creative's features, such as Crystallization. I'm pretty sure I'm getting true 5.1 since I'm in Standard Surround Mode with Dolby Pro Logic II selected. I think what you mean by fake surround is when I'm on Advanced Surround Extreme Stereo mode for example. Which kind of "mirror" the sound coming from the front speakers to the rear speakers. And I'm not sure where the center speaker sound is coming from. I guess a mix of both left and right? I use that mode to listen to 2.0 music, as it sounds great that way.

So what you are saying is the DTS/DD Encoders I see in SPDIF-Out proprieties are the Creative ones? Since the test indeed work on all speakers independently. And I'm pretty sure the Positional Audio I get in games is true surround, not fake mirror surround, as I'm in Standard Surround mode on my HT, and it doesn't sound mirrored at all. I'm pretty sure if those encoders in SPDIF-Out are from Creative, they're still not the same as the those from the DTS Connect and DDL packs you get in SB's Control Panel, as it doesn't sound as good. It's still Positional Surround, it just doesn't sound as good. Distant and low sounds are quieter than before. But high and near sounds are still loud. Like gunfires and explosions.

In all honesty, it kind of sound more realistic that way than before. But I liked to hear my footsteps loudly like I was some kind of rhino. LOL Anyway, I'll get back on later, I have to go make diner. Thanks again guys for the interactions, it's quite interesting.

Dolby Pro Logic II is "almost fake" surround that was used on VHS tapes to pull some sort of rear channels out of a phase difference in the stereo signal. It was not entirely fake since you could purposely encode some extra info in the signal which some VHS movies bothered to do.

 

There is NO modern scenario where you should set your receiver to Dolby Pro Logic II. The receiver will have a far better surround synthesis setting for a stereo signal, I think DTS Neo is designed for that, for example.

 

The HDMI signal is not actually "Dolby" encoded. It uses a HDMI standard. AFAIK Microsoft is NOT paying any license fees to Dolby although it would have been nice if they had done a fixed price negotiation back in Bill Gate's "Cutthroat Businessman" days...

 

Most likely you are hearing any differences due to Crystalizer and/or other Creative effects. I used to be a hard core audio purist at one point but now I totally encourage whatever sounds better to people to maximize their enjoyment, while still keeping in mind that many "audio purist" concepts really help to reduce listening/ear fatigue.

 

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)

My Creative effects settings are exactly the same. Yet surround sound doesn't sound the same coming from SPDIF-Out selected versus what it sounded on Speakers device with DDL or DTS Connect enabled in games when it worked, I can confirm 100%. In movies/TV Shows it is harder to tell. I just put my Standard Surround to Neo6:Cinema (other option is music), I'll see if I get Positional Surround in-game with this mode on and report back.

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DevTech    1,517
5 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

My Creative effects settings are exactly the same. Yet surround sound doesn't sound the same coming from SPDIF-Out selected versus what it sounded on Speakers device with DDL or DTS Connect enabled in games when it worked, I can confirm 100%. In movies/TV Shows it is harder to tell. I just put my Standard Surround to Neo6:Cinema (other option is music), I'll see if I get Positional Surround in-game with this mode on and report back.

I think you really need to work out a detailed Matrix of everything you listen to and the settings you are using.

 

Any DTS "Neo" is a SIMULATED surround.

 

So far every setting you have mentioned for your audio receiver has been a SIMULATED surround and NOT a real render of an actual 5.1 signal input.

 

If you can give me the exact make and model number of your stereo receiver I could download a manual and suggest some settings for you.

 

 

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)

Okay I tried Neo:6, doesn't sound bad at all. I can't confirm 100% that it is Positional Surround Audio that I get in-game, because I don't have a game where I'm in a situation where there is dialogue right now I can test to be sure. That's mostly the only way you can be sure, when there is dialogue and you turn back and hear talking from behind. I tried making something explode from behind, and it sounds Positional to me. There is sound coming from the 5.1 speakers that's for sure, and it doesn't sound like the mirrored surround I get from ExtremeStereo mode in Advanced Surround.

So am I getting real surround or what? LOL You got me confused now. Because you say the DTS/DD in SPDIF-Out is from Creative, not Windows, but then I can select them from SPDIF-Out, but not in SB's Control Panel. And no sound is coming from Speakers as before the 1903 update. Before, both SPDIF-Out AND Speakers worked, but you had to have Speakers selected to have the DTS Connect/DDL working.

There is a distinction between DTS vs DTS Connect and Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Live right? And I think that is the difference I am hearing. It sounded better through Speakers device with DTS Connect and DDL when it worked, than it now sounds.

What would be a real surround mode on my receiver? Auto Surround, Direct, Pure Direct?

18 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I think you really need to work out a detailed Matrix of everything you listen to and the settings you are using.

 

Any DTS "Neo" is a SIMULATED surround.

 

So far every setting you have mentioned for your audio receiver has been a SIMULATED surround and NOT a real render of an actual 5.1 signal input.

 

If you can give me the exact make and model number of your stereo receiver I could download a manual and suggest some settings for you.

 

 

A cheap Pioneer VSX-523-K. Must have the manual somewhere, but I don't need it. I know how to mess with the settings. I'm just not an expert in what audio technologies and modes are doing exactly.

Edited by NickEclipse

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)

As far as I can understand the Auto Surround/Stream Direct button (Auto, Direct, Pure Direct) are main settings separate from the Surround Settings. The second button called ALC/Standard Surround gives me a choice between Dolby Pro Logic, Pro Logic II Movies/Music/Games, or Stereo. Then I got a third button called Advanced Surround which when active disables the Standard Surround Mode I'm on for ExtremeMusic, which is mirror "surround" literally, and the only one I use when I play 2.0 music, then crappy modes like Action, Drama, Classical, ECO 1, 2, Advanced Game, F.S.S.Advanced (don't don't know the hell it is). As far as I can remember, they all sounded pretty bad, and some didn't output surround. I'll test them for fun right now.

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DevTech    1,517
14 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

Okay I tried Neo:6, doesn't sound bad at all. I can't confirm 100% that it is Positional Surround Audio that I get in-game, because I don't have a game where I'm in a situation where there is dialogue right now I can test to be sure. That's mostly the only way you can be sure, when there is dialogue and you turn back and hear talking from behind. I tried making something explode from behind, and it sounds Positional to me. There is sound coming from the 5.1 speakers that's for sure, and it doesn't sound like the mirrored surround I get from ExtremeStereo mode in Advanced Surround.

So am I getting real surround or what? LOL You got me confused now. Because you say the DTS/DD in SPDIF-Out is from Creative, not Windows, but then I can select them from SPDIF-Out, but not in SB's Control Panel. And no sound is coming from Speakers as before the 1903 update. Before, both SPDIF-Out AND Speakers worked, but you had to have Speakers selected to have the DTS Connect/DDL working.

There is a distinction between DTS vs DTS Connect and Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Live right? And I think that is the difference I am hearing. It sounded better through Speakers device with DTS Connect and DDL when it worked, than it now sounds.

What is real surround? Auto Surround, Direct, Pure Direct?

A cheap Pioneer VSX-523-K. Must have the manual somewhere, but I don't need it. I know how to mess with the settings. I'm not just an expert in what audio technologies and modes are doing exactly.

ANY "Neo" is simulated.

 

The digital stream to the Pioneer will have Dolby or DTS encoding if it is 5.1

 

Most people just play movies, and the audio inside a movie file is typically Dolby that was encoded by the movie studio with a Dolby license.

 

The "Dolby Digital Live" means that YOU own a valid Dolby license to ENCODE a 5.1 Dolby Digital bitstream from your computer!

 

There is no audio quality difference between pre-recorded Dolby and the Dolby recordings you make other than the quality of the source material you are encoding with.

 

So, the only thing you could do with your Dolby license is to encode Game Audio and to do your own personal conversion of Stereo 2.0 from a movie that only has Stereo (or mono) and an audio file such as MP3.

 

So for example whatever you are using for an audio player probably has an option to apply some sort of simulation similar to "Neo" which could then be used to send a 5.1 signal to your Pioneer.

 

If you look at all these cases and are careful to always push out a 5.1 signal to your Pioneer, then you can leave the Pioneer in a straight up "native" Dolby 5.1 playback mode and never have to fiddle with it again.

 

I will try to look up the Pioneer setting you need.

 

 

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NickEclipse    3

Okay the F.S.S.Advanced and ExtremeMusic mode sound fine, not sure if F.S.S.Advanced is "real" surround though. ExtremeStereo definitely isn't. But all other modes sound like I'm in the Alps. Freaking huge echo. Anyway, that,s all the info I can give you. But I'm still in the dark about what's happening on the computer, that is DTS vs DTS Connect and DD vs DDL sounding different, independent of the Creative's Effects. I always set them about the same. 60 Surround, 60 Crystilizer, 50 Dialogue Plus.

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, DevTech said:

ANY "Neo" is simulated.

 

The digital stream to the Pioneer will have Dolby or DTS encoding if it is 5.1

 

Most people just play movies, and the audio inside a movie file is typically Dolby that was encoded by the movie studio with a Dolby license.

 

The "Dolby Digital Live" means that YOU own a valid Dolby license to ENCODE a 5.1 Dolby Digital bitstream from your computer!

 

There is no audio quality difference between pre-recorded Dolby and the Dolby recordings you make other than the quality of the source material you are encoding with.

 

So, the only thing you could do with your Dolby license is to encode Game Audio and to do your own personal conversion of Stereo 2.0 from a movie that only has Stereo (or mono) and an audio file such as MP3.

 

So for example whatever you are using for an audio player probably has an option to apply some sort of simulation similar to "Neo" which could then be used to send a 5.1 signal to your Pioneer.

 

If you look at all these cases and are careful to always push out a 5.1 signal to your Pioneer, then you can leave the Pioneer in a straight up "native" Dolby 5.1 playback mode and never have to fiddle with it again.

 

I will try to look up the Pioneer setting you need.

 

 

Thanks a lot for all the info. But again, pretty sure sound in my games sounded better with Speakers device selected and working ,with Dolby Digital Live enabled, than it now does with SPDIF-Out. But very interesting what you said about Pro Logic and Neo, didn't know it was simulated surround. So I'll keep a close eye on my Receiver. If I don't see DTS or Dolby appear on the receiver when firing up a game, the "surround" I hear is actually the receiver simulating surround via whatever mode. And I think there is the mystery solved right here.

Because see, when Speakers was selected, and DDL or DTS enabled through SB's Control Panel, it was automatically sending DTS or DDL signal from the computer. Now it is the receiver that is simulating the surround in my games, thus WHY it doesn't sound the same? Could it be it?

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DevTech    1,517

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Unassigned-Content/Manuals/VSX-523-K+OPERATING+INSTRUCTIONS

 

LIGHTS: ensure NEO:6 is OFF, DTS or Dolby-D is ON, Dolby PLII is OFF, DIGITAL is ON, HDMI is OFF, DIR light is ON

 

The setting you want is on Page 27

 

Set to PURE DIRECT.

 

With pure direct you can verify that every signal source of interest to you is putting out a proper 5.1 signal.

 

The number of settings are insanely numerous and the manual and controls are like a Minefield of options directing anyone's attention away from the correct setting!

 

 

 

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NickEclipse    3

That's it. That's the difference. If I disable Neo:6 and Pro Logic, I don't get 5.1 the same game where I had it with them on. It was simulated surround as you said. Because the source isn't original compressed 5.1, But that's what DTS Connect DDL brought. I'm pretty sure that's why I hear a difference.

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, DevTech said:

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Unassigned-Content/Manuals/VSX-523-K+OPERATING+INSTRUCTIONS

 

LIGHTS: ensure NEO:6 is OFF, DTS or Dolby-D is ON, Dolby PLII is OFF, DIGITAL is ON, HDMI is OFF, DIR light is ON

 

The setting you want is on Page 27

 

Set to PURE DIRECT.

 

With pure direct you can verify that every signal source of interest to you is putting out a proper 5.1 signal.

 

The number of settings are insanely numerous and the manual and controls are like a Minefield of options directing anyone's attention away from the correct setting!

 

 

 

Thanks a lot. I learned a bunch of stuff I didn't know about. But can you confirm I'm right about DTS Connect and DDL? That it encoded the signal to DTS or DD directly on the computer, so the receiver didn't have to simulate it, thus why it sounded better? Now if the source isn't DTS or Dolby, and the computer can't encode it to 5.1 without DTS Connect or DDL, I either have to stick to 2.0, or have the receiver "simulate" the surround with Pro Logic or Neo:6. Do you understand what I mean?

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DevTech    1,517
15 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

Okay the F.S.S.Advanced and ExtremeMusic mode sound fine, not sure if F.S.S.Advanced is "real" surround though. ExtremeStereo definitely isn't. But all other modes sound like I'm in the Alps. Freaking huge echo. Anyway, that,s all the info I can give you. But I'm still in the dark about what's happening on the computer, that is DTS vs DTS Connect and DD vs DDL sounding different, independent of the Creative's Effects. I always set them about the same. 60 Surround, 60 Crystilizer, 50 Dialogue Plus.

F.S.S.ADVANCE: creates a surround effect using just the front stereo speakers - like one of those "sound bars"

 

image.png

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NickEclipse    3
2 minutes ago, DevTech said:

F.S.S.ADVANCE: creates a surround effect using just the front stereo speakers - like one of those "sound bars"

 

image.png

Damn, you're resourceful, thank you.

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DevTech    1,517
2 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

Thanks a lot. I learned a bunch of stuff I didn't know about. But can you confirm I'm right about DTS Connect and DDL? That it encoded the signal to DTS or DD directly on the computer, so the receiver didn't have to simulate it, thus why it sounded better?

 

25 minutes ago, DevTech said:

The "Dolby Digital Live" means that YOU own a valid Dolby license to ENCODE a 5.1 Dolby Digital bitstream from your computer!

Your question is scary. That is the whole point of the DDL license you own provided to you by Creative.

 

Otherwise you could just use a stereo signal from the motherboard audio and let the receiver mess with it like crazy

 

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Otherwise you could just use a stereo signal from the motherboard audio and let the receiver mess with it like crazy

Exactly. That's why I remember buying this card. Because my MB SoundCard has TosLink as well. Sure there's also the fact the overall sound quality is better, but the main reason I bought the SB Z was for that feature. It's just that the simulated surround Pro Logic kept giving me made me forget about it. So now I know why there is a sound difference, and I know I really lost a feature there. Almost makes me want to reformat the PC to go back to 1809. Will wait a couple of months to see what Creative will do, if they do anything.

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DevTech    1,517
2 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

Exactly. That's why I remember buying this card. Because my MB SoundCard has TosLink as well. Sure there's also the overall sound quality that is better, but the main reason I bought the SB Z was for that feature. It's just that the simulated surround Pro Logic kept giving me made me forget about it. So now I know why there is a sound difference, and I know I really lost a feature there. Almost makes me want to reformat the PC to go back to 1809. Will wait a couple of months to see what Creative will do, if they do anything.

After skimming through your Pioneer manual I can understand the how the overwhelming number of options can create a maze of twisty little passages to the wrong setting.

 

Try to stay in PURE DIRECT mode and set up you PC to control all the audio config like EQ and LFE balance etc.

 

"DIRECT" is your next best option

 

 

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, DevTech said:

After skimming through your Pioneer manual I can understand the how the overwhelming number of options can create a maze of twisty little passages to the wrong setting.

 

Try to stay in PURE DIRECT mode and set up you PC to control all the audio config like EQ and LFE balance etc.

 

"DIRECT" is your next best option

 

 

But that way pretty much all my audio will be 2.0 now, thanks to Creative's broken drivers. Or MS broken audio layer, whichever is the culprit. Even most recent games that sport the Dolby Logo, it's meant for their console counterpart. They more often than not output 2.0 for PC. Again, thus why I bought this SB Z card in the first place. For DTS Connect and DDL, which are now broken for me. I'll test some games in PureDirect/Direct and see. All I have left for 5.1 now are movies and TV Shows with a DTS/DD track. But I'm not much into movies/shows these days.

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DevTech    1,517
Just now, NickEclipse said:

But that way pretty much all my audio will be 2.0 now, thanks to Creative's broken drivers. Or MS broken audio layer, whichever is the culprit. Even most recent games sport the Dolby Logo, it's meant for their console counterpart. I'll test some games in PureDirect/Direct and see. All I have left for 5.1 now are movies and TV Shows with a DTS/DD track. But I'm not much into movies/shows these days.

Well, now that the confusion is done with, there is an advantage in staying in PURE DIRECT.

 

You can try all the various options in sound settings in both Windows and whatever Creative has. Then when you hit the TEST button and you hear sound from all speakers you know that DDL is working and you are back in business again!

 

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NickEclipse    3
Posted (edited)

And that's what I thought. Even when PC games have a 5.1 Speakers setting, it's assuming you have a 3.5MM cables setup. Without Pro Logic or Neo:6, no surround in game via SPDIF-Out on the HT...

6 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Well, now that the confusion is done with, there is an advantage in staying in PURE DIRECT.

 

You can try all the various options in sound settings in both Windows and whatever Creative has. Then when you hit the TEST button and you hear sound from all speakers you know that DDL is working and you are back in business again!

 

DTS and DD is working in SPDIF-Out test, but that's it. Speakers test in SB Panel doesn't work since it goes through the Speakers device, which is silent for me. And again, DTS Connect and DDL won't load in the SB Panel for me. For pretty much a useless Sound Card for me now.

Edited by NickEclipse

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DevTech    1,517
4 minutes ago, NickEclipse said:

And that's what I thought. Even when PC games have a 5.1 Speakers setting, it's assuming you have a 3.5MM cables setup. Without Pro Logic or Neo:6, no surround in game via SPDIF-Out on the HT...

HDMI has no 5.1 license restriction.

 

You can use the Video Card HDMI Audio as the sound output for the game's 5.1 and then set the receiver to that input. Stay with "PURE DIRECT" to verify that works.

 

 

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NickEclipse    3
1 minute ago, DevTech said:

HDMI has no 5.1 license restriction.

 

You can use the Video Card HDMI Audio as the sound output for the game's 5.1 and then set the receiver to that input. Stay with "PURE DIRECT" to verify that works.

 

 

But then I will loose the Creative's audio enchantments right?

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