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Virtual Machine Recommendation

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+BudMan    3,544
11 hours ago, sinetheo said:

Is this a home system? VMware esx is $6000?!

esxi is FREE... for home or office use... Yes there is paid version - he doesn't need that!!

 

It is not that difficult if you understand the basic concept of what and how VM works.. Its all gui based managed.. Its no different than any other vm software like workstation or player or fhyper-v... To be honest is WAY easier to do networking in esxi then it is hyper-v... To do any sort of vlans you have to use powershell cmdlets in hyper-v

 

He doesn't even need to setup any of the more complex stuff like HA and vmotion or even use a vserver to manage - he just hits the built in web gui..

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Clirion    148
15 hours ago, sc302 said:

That was vmware workstation.  That is a defunct/discontinued product. 

 

Esx/esxi is a Linux/Unix based hypervisor os which needs to get directly installed on the hardware...this would replace the windows install. Esx/esxi is managed by a browser based GUI interface. I hope that makes it a bit clearer for you. 

Actually not defunct, just renamed and more expensive, https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-pro.html  250 USD.

All business server issues should be planned out though.  Not planning what you are going to do is what costs the most time.  

 

If this is really a home server and no money is impacted, then play away. 

Business, make sure you are not impacting production, then play away.  

 

 

 

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+fusi0n    2,069
1 hour ago, Mindovermaster said:

ESXI is simple, as long as you get help. As Sc302, BudMan, etc. And other friends.

 

 

The issue is the burden of knowledge. To me and you, it's easy peezy mac and cheesy. He doesn't have any knowledge of servers or hypervisors. It wouldn't be a good idea to to this on brand new production hardware. In his server build thread, several people mentioned using hypervisors, but for some reason he didn't go that route. 

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+BudMan    3,544

Yeah and he bought a rocket ship.. Way over kill to be honest, not leveraging it for VMs would be a shame to be honest.. And its going to sit there idle most of the time on the cpu ;)

 

12 Cores.. Not exactly sure how much ram he put in it?  32GB?

 

But it for sure can run a few VMs... Running VM's to be honest would simplify backups as well - the snapshot capability  before doing anything like windows update or updating his software could be life saver for SMB..  And to take a backup he can have a full image of his different machines very quick and easy with simple export of the VM.

 

 

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sc302    1,740
15 minutes ago, BudMan said:

Yeah and he bought a rocket ship.. Way over kill to be honest, not leveraging it for VMs would be a shame to be honest.. And its going to sit there idle most of the time on the cpu ;)

 

12 Cores.. Not exactly sure how much ram he put in it?  32GB?

 

But it for sure can run a few VMs... Running VM's to be honest would simplify backups as well - the snapshot capability  before doing anything like windows update or updating his software could be life saver for SMB..  And to take a backup he can have a full image of his different machines very quick and easy with simple export of the VM.

 

 

Needs VMWare essentials for that, it is a paid license.  

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+fusi0n    2,069

This isn't a bad video.. I only spot checked it, but seems to be good,

 

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Kelxin    255
Posted (edited)

Ugh, there's a whole lot of dick slapping in this thread.   

 

Bypass what everyone just said and virtualize the dongle.  There are several programs out there that will defeat the encryption, and create a windows 7 driver that perfectly emulates the dongle as a piece of software that can be loaded into any virtual machine hyper-v or other.  You're a legal owner since you have the dongle, which makes this legal.

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adrynalyne    12,320
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

ESXI is simple, as long as you get help. As Sc302, BudMan, etc. And other friends.

 

 

Is it simple, if you need to get help? 🤔

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Mindovermaster    2,391
5 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Is it simple, if you need to get help? 🤔

Well, everyone can use Windows 10, but not everyone knows the backdoors...

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adrynalyne    12,320
1 minute ago, Mindovermaster said:

Well, everyone can use Windows 10, but not everyone knows the backdoors...

?

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Mindovermaster    2,391
1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

?

backdoors, how to disable options that aren't viewable by the naked eye. How you can change certain things in Windows that are deep within the system. (i.e. control panel/option/option/option, etc.)

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adrynalyne    12,320
1 minute ago, Mindovermaster said:

backdoors, how to disable options that aren't viewable by the naked eye. How you can change certain things in Windows that are deep within the system. (i.e. control panel/option/option/option, etc.)

No I get that (those aren’t backdoors of course), I’m just confused how that comment ties in with the simplicity of esxi, if you need to get help. You said, it was simple, if you get help. That is a confusing statement. 

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patseguin    1,319
4 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

ESXI is simple, as long as you get help. As Sc302, BudMan, etc. And other friends.

 

 

Yeah, but it runs as my main os and overwrites my installation, right? I spent money having an it guy come in and configure it for me. I'm not sure I want to undo that or not. I think I could rejoin the domain if I had to since I didn't decommission the old server yet. For now, I decided not to try and mess with vm's. I removed the hyper-v role. My embroidery machine software maker has an $800 upgrade and it's tested with server 2016. I'm pretty sure that means it will run on 2019.

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+BudMan    3,544
3 hours ago, sc302 said:

Needs VMWare essentials for that

For what?  You don't need essentials to take a snapshot or export a vm..

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sc302    1,740

I thought it was snapshots.  It has been a long while since I used a few version, they limited ram last time I really played with the free versions.  Apparently there are other API’s that are needed for backups and are lacking in the free version that causes veeam to not be able to back that up, I thought it was the snapshot feature. 

 

https://www.vladan.fr/esxi-free-vs-paid/

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+BudMan    3,544

not talking about veem or anything... Free for sure allows you to take snapshots, and also export... What some 3rd party tool can do or not do via free or paid is not what talking about.. For some small 5 user shop, they have no reason to fork over cash for paid versions.. He spent way too much for that box and what he would of needed as well..

 

How much did you pay to have someone come in and set it up btw???  Just curious...  I would of done it for free ;)  If you could of waited until I got back from vac, and pretty sure sc302 if not free would of given you huge neowin discount.. I can not speak for him - but I know he has done that sort of thing for free as well.  For neowin regs..

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sinetheo    585
On 6/30/2019 at 11:14 AM, Kelxin said:

Ugh, there's a whole lot of dick slapping in this thread.   

 

Bypass what everyone just said and virtualize the dongle.  There are several programs out there that will defeat the encryption, and create a windows 7 driver that perfectly emulates the dongle as a piece of software that can be loaded into any virtual machine hyper-v or other.  You're a legal owner since you have the dongle, which makes this legal.

Exactly. He just freaking wants to run an app for his sewing machine. Not run an Enterprise lol. That was my point. I can learn how to build a desiel engine for an 18 wheeler truck for a single small delivery too.

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Mindovermaster    2,391
55 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

Exactly. He just freaking wants to run an app for his sewing machine. Not run an Enterprise lol. That was my point. I can learn how to build a desiel engine for an 18 wheeler truck for a single small delivery too.

Umm, EXSI isn't an Enteprise program. Well, OS. It depends on how much you do with it that makes it Enteprise.

 

Same with PfSense... You can use it as a barbone system, but there are about 1 million different settings in there.

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+Fahim S.    1,088

@patseguin

I think you need to learn a little about virtualisation.  Hypervisors come in 2 types, which are called, imaginatively, type 1 and type 2 hypervisors.

 

In each case, you have an OS that runs on the hardware, and then OSs that then run on that OS.

 

A type 1 hypervisor, such as VMWare ESXi, run directly on the hardware.  All they can do is run Virtual Machines - they typically have a console interface and an administrative UI (either a native application calling APIs on the Hypervisor, or a web-based interface).

A type 2 hypervisor, such as Oracle VirtualBox, run on a client operating system (such as Windows, Linux, etc) as an application and Virtual Machines are run in that application.

 

type 2 hypervisors are great for when you need a VM to interact with whilst you are sitting at a computer but make absolutely no sense in a server environment.

 

Hyper-V and KVM are a bit funny because they can be classed as either Type 1 or Type 2 - because the machines run on the OS kernal but can exist with a client operating system running in tandem with the VMs.  We won't go into that right now.  You can also nest Type 1 hypervisors on Type 1 hypervisors, but again, no need to go into that.

 

ESXi is probably the best known and most used Type 1 hypervisor.  There are flavours of the VMWare stack that are worth bearing in mind.

The free version of ESXi allows you to run the platform on a machine and provides a web-based UI to manage it.

There is a paid stack of the VMWare platform - which allows you to run multiple ESXi servers, cluster them for high availability, move virtual machines between them (also known as vMotion) etc, and includes a management server called vCenter to manage the platform.

 

Given that you only have 1 server, there is absolutely no reason for you to run anything but the free version.

You typically run ESXi off a USB Stick - you don't install it to a local disk.

 

One of the things that you can do in the ESXi web based GUI, is to enable USB passthrough.  That means the VM takes ownership of the USB port as if it is attached directly to it.  In order to do this you need a processor that supports virtualisation of devices (or directed I/O) and has Intel VT-d (or AMD-Vi).  Most modern Intel processors with the exception of very low-end models support VT-d.  I don't know about AMD, but I would be surprised if the story is any different.

 

In order to change your machine from running just Windows Server as a Domain Controller, you need to rebuild it.  There are various options here.  You could take an image of the server, convert this to a Virtual Machine disk and run it as Virtual Machine, or just install from fresh.

 

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patseguin    1,319

@Fahim S.

 

Wow, great info. I'm just curious why type 2 makes no sense. If I need just a relatively low end windows 7 box to run the app that I need, doesn't it make sense to keep it simple and just install a type 2 and have that machine running the program that I need? I'm not sure why it would make more sense to rebuild my whole domain controller just to be able to configure a simple VM to run something.

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+Fahim S.    1,088

Because Type 2 Hypervisors are run like any other application, and are really meant for desktop scenarios for a machine that is being used with a person sitting in front of it.

 

If you log out the application will close (and the VM shut down), and it won't start up again until you log back in and start it again.

If you restart the box the application will close (and the VM shut down), and it won't start up again until you log back in and start it again.

 

Your box is a server, which means it should be spending almost all of its time without someone logged into it (and no applications running, only services), and shouldn't require any user interaction to start things up when the machine is restarted.  Therefore a type 2 hypervisor makes no sense, because your environment will become very brittle if you go down that route.

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adrynalyne    12,320
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Fahim S. said:

@patseguin

I think you need to learn a little about virtualisation.  Hypervisors come in 2 types, which are called, imaginatively, type 1 and type 2 hypervisors.

 

In each case, you have an OS that runs on the hardware, and then OSs that then run on that OS.

 

A type 1 hypervisor, such as VMWare ESXi, run directly on the hardware.  All they can do is run Virtual Machines - they typically have a console interface and an administrative UI (either a native application calling APIs on the Hypervisor, or a web-based interface).

A type 2 hypervisor, such as Oracle VirtualBox, run on a client operating system (such as Windows, Linux, etc) as an application and Virtual Machines are run in that application.

 

type 2 hypervisors are great for when you need a VM to interact with whilst you are sitting at a computer but make absolutely no sense in a server environment.

 

Hyper-V and KVM are a bit funny because they can be classed as either Type 1 or Type 2 - because the machines run on the OS kernal but can exist with a client operating system running in tandem with the VMs.  We won't go into that right now.  You can also nest Type 1 hypervisors on Type 1 hypervisors, but again, no need to go into that.

 

ESXi is probably the best known and most used Type 1 hypervisor.  There are flavours of the VMWare stack that are worth bearing in mind.

The free version of ESXi allows you to run the platform on a machine and provides a web-based UI to manage it.

There is a paid stack of the VMWare platform - which allows you to run multiple ESXi servers, cluster them for high availability, move virtual machines between them (also known as vMotion) etc, and includes a management server called vCenter to manage the platform.

 

Given that you only have 1 server, there is absolutely no reason for you to run anything but the free version.

You typically run ESXi off a USB Stick - you don't install it to a local disk.

 

One of the things that you can do in the ESXi web based GUI, is to enable USB passthrough.  That means the VM takes ownership of the USB port as if it is attached directly to it.  In order to do this you need a processor that supports virtualisation of devices (or directed I/O) and has Intel VT-d (or AMD-Vi).  Most modern Intel processors with the exception of very low-end models support VT-d.  I don't know about AMD, but I would be surprised if the story is any different.

 

In order to change your machine from running just Windows Server as a Domain Controller, you need to rebuild it.  There are various options here.  You could take an image of the server, convert this to a Virtual Machine disk and run it as Virtual Machine, or just install from fresh.

 

Off topic,  OP please disregard.

 

You can also nest Type 1 hypervisors on Type 1 hypervisors

 

This is not true, at least in the case of hyper-v. Bare metals cannot run inside another bare metal.

 

 

Hyper-V and KVM are a bit funny because they can be classed as either Type 1 or Type 2 - because the machines run on the OS kernal but can exist with a client operating system running in tandem with the VMs. 

Hyper-v runs below the "host" Windows OS too, so...I know there is a lot of debate, but I am pretty sure its just type 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-V#Hyper-V_Server

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/performance-tuning/role/hyper-v-server/architecture

 

You can see the architecture visually here:

450px-Hyper-V.png

 

perftune-guide-hyperv-arch.png

 

Again OP, please disregard.

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+Fahim S.    1,088
1 hour ago, adrynalyne said:

This is not true, at least in the case of hyper-v. Bare metals cannot run inside another bare metal.

You can run ESXi as a VM on an ESXi host.  It's actually a good way of creating a cluster in a lab without too much hardware.  It's not a supported production grade configuration though, obviously.

 

1 hour ago, adrynalyne said:

Hyper-v runs below the "host" Windows OS too, so...I know there is a lot of debate, but I am pretty sure its just type 1.

I would also describe Hyper-V and KVM as Type 1, but as you say there is a debate.

 

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sinetheo    585
On 7/3/2019 at 10:16 AM, adrynalyne said:

Off topic,  OP please disregard.

 

You can also nest Type 1 hypervisors on Type 1 hypervisors

 

This is not true, at least in the case of hyper-v. Bare metals cannot run inside another bare metal.

 

 

Hyper-V and KVM are a bit funny because they can be classed as either Type 1 or Type 2 - because the machines run on the OS kernal but can exist with a client operating system running in tandem with the VMs. 

Hyper-v runs below the "host" Windows OS too, so...I know there is a lot of debate, but I am pretty sure its just type 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-V#Hyper-V_Server

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/performance-tuning/role/hyper-v-server/architecture

 

You can see the architecture visually here:

450px-Hyper-V.png

 

perftune-guide-hyperv-arch.png

 

Again OP, please disregard.

Funny runs fine with server 2016 running server 2016 on my Windows 10 system

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