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Virtual Machine Recommendation

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sinetheo    585
Posted (edited)
On 7/2/2019 at 9:38 PM, Mindovermaster said:

Umm, EXSI isn't an Enteprise program. Well, OS. It depends on how much you do with it that makes it Enteprise.

 

Same with PfSense... You can use it as a barbone system, but there are about 1 million different settings in there.

Virtualbox you point and click done! Oh create VM then done. 

 

VMware esx let's see if hardware is even supported by hcl? Oops he looses his sound card. Does his bios even support vt-d? Rats! Also looks like he can't play games anymore on his system. Oops he has to now reformat his disk 😲 ... Etc. Lunacy esx is even mentioned on this and if you suggest he buy server grade hardware YES I HAVE SEEN this suggested on YouTube and Reddit he might as well just pay $800 for the upgraded version for Windows 10 so his sewing machine will work

 

  • Facepalm 2

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Mindovermaster    1,974
4 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

Oops he looses his sound card. Does his bios even support vt-d? Rats! Also looks like he can't play games anymore on his system.

In a corporate, or business setting, when are you running music on your server? Gaming, for that matter...

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+Fahim S.    1,086
11 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

Virtualbox you point and click done! Oh create VM then done. 

 

VMware esx let's see if hardware is even supported by hcl? Oops he looses his sound card. Does his bios even support vt-d? Rats! Also looks like he can't play games anymore on his system. Oops he has to now reformat his disk 😲 ... Etc. Lunacy esx is even mentioned on this and if you suggest he buy server grade hardware YES I HAVE SEEN this suggested on YouTube and Reddit he might as well just pay $800 for the upgraded version for Windows 10 so his sewing machine will work

 

He has server grade hardware, because the box we are talking about is actually a server, used in a business environment...

Have you read the entire thread? and the previous one with a lengthy discussion on which server hardware he should buy?

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+BudMan    3,514
27 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

Oops he looses his sound card

Where in his listing of his hardware does it even have a sound card ;)

And yes his T640 is on the HCL for esxi.

https://www.vmware.com/resources/compatibility/search.php?deviceCategory=server&details=1&partner=23&keyword=T640&page=1&display_interval=10&sortColumn=Partner&sortOrder=Asc

 

HCL.thumb.png.d05f441665b10716525ac6f2a574ac61.png

 

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+Fahim S.    1,086

@BudMan any chance you can fix that quote so it isn't attributed to me...

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+BudMan    3,514

sure - my bad - not sure why it did that?

 

Must of just highlighted it in your post - sorry.. Fixed!

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DPyro    747

What's with all these complicated solutions to a simple problem? OP just install VMware player with a windows 7 OS and redirect the usb from host to guest.

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Mindovermaster    1,974
56 minutes ago, DPyro said:

What's with all these complicated solutions to a simple problem? OP just install VMware player with a windows 7 OS and redirect the usb from host to guest.

We're suggesting a better solution. Showing him an eisier, free solution.

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adrynalyne    11,838
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sinetheo said:

Funny runs fine with server 2016 running server 2016 on my Windows 10 system

Because they are both hyper-v, kiddo. If we go back a few years, even that scenario didn’t work. 
Try running a different one on hyper-v and get back with me. 

Edited by adrynalyne
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sinetheo    585
2 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

We're suggesting a better solution. Showing him an eisier, free solution.

 

4 hours ago, BudMan said:

Where in his listing of his hardware does it even have a sound card ;)

And yes his T640 is on the HCL for esxi.

https://www.vmware.com/resources/compatibility/search.php?deviceCategory=server&details=1&partner=23&keyword=T640&page=1&display_interval=10&sortColumn=Partner&sortOrder=Asc

 

HCL.thumb.png.d05f441665b10716525ac6f2a574ac61.png

 

 

My bad I assume this was for his wife who ran a machine at home when people started talking about ESX and was thinking what the hell. Ok, now this makes more sense.

 

He said his wife so I assume it was at home.

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sinetheo    585
3 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

We're suggesting a better solution. Showing him an eisier, free solution.

I reread the post and didn't realize he meant work and thought it was something his wife ran at home. 

 

But the reason I mentioned virtualbox or maybe even vmware player/workstation it may not be the best solution for you or me as IT professionals, but maybe the best solution for someone non technical and a strict small business budget. Not having to pay for server grade hardware or an expensive $200/hr IT firm to setup is a huge cost savings. I mean if it is only $800 for a Windows 10 version of his software then pay it. 

 

I am disgusting at the hostage situation software companies do to force upgrades. Saw this when people cried at me when they had XP when I told they must go to 7. Greedy bastards held my customers hostage on XP and I had to hack and shoehorn some stuff.

 

I am done polluting this thread and said my piece. I offered my alternative and people theirs with an enterprise grade solution. 

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DPyro    747
3 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

We're suggesting a better solution. Showing him an eisier, free solution.

It takes 20 minutes to install windows 7 in vmware player and is free. If it doesn't work he can try another solution.

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Mindovermaster    1,974
1 hour ago, DPyro said:

It takes 20 minutes to install windows 7 in vmware player and is free. If it doesn't work he can try another solution.

Well, yea, but for ESXi... It has more power/options than VMWare Player. Or Virtualbox, too.

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+BudMan    3,514
15 hours ago, DPyro said:

vmware player and is free

Not for his use its not.

"VMware Workstation Player is free for personal, non-commercial use (business and nonprofit use is considered commercial use)."

 

His deployment is clearly Commercial.. He would have to buy the Pro version.

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C:Amie    51
On 6/28/2019 at 4:45 PM, patseguin said:

I have a brand new Windows Server 2019 machine set up. I have some embroidery machine networking software that has to run on Windows 7 and it uses a USB dongle. I installed the hyper-v roll and made a machine and installed Windows 7 on it. I installed the dongle driver, but then it occurred to me isn't the physical machine going to want to recognize that dongle in addition to the virtual machine? The embroidery software people told me that hyper-v has issues with USB dongles, is that true? He recommends VMware but since I already have the hyper-v machine up and running, I'd like to use that if I can.

 

Additionally, an IT guy that did some work for me said "The Hyper-V role is not supported on domain controllers" which I find odd since it is an option right in the server manager.

 

Since I have a USB dongle, do I need to scrap hyper-v and use VMware?

<doesn't read any other replies because everyone got into "get ESXi" mode. I'm just going to assume that if you wanted ESXi, you would have started with ESXi and answer your question />

 

patseguin,

 

You can do this quite easily with Hyper-V 2019, with two proviso's

  1. You are running on a Real Server and not some Asus motherboard and an i7 - your UEFI has to properly support IOMMU.
  2. You use a PCIe USB controller. Unless - and it is extremely unlikely - you have a secondary on-board USB controller, you aren't going to be able to detach the USB controller from the motherboard. A really inexpensive PCIe controller will be easy to pass through to the VM. You have to pass through the controller - not just one port. It is easier if you isolate the hardware owned by the VM from the hardware owned by the hypervisor anyway, otherwise there is higher chance of getting confused and not remembering which ports are owned by what appliance.

 

I've done this recently myself with Hyper-V 2019, and a virtual Streaming TV Server for IPTV recording and distribution (if interested: https://www.c-amie.co.uk/technical/creating-a-virtual-tv-streaming-server/ )

 

It does the job, and works in Hyper-V 2016 too.

 

The ESXi bandwagon are correct, ESXi is more flexible than Hyper-V. Hyper-V uses a very 'by the book' and restricted implementation of IOMMU and doesn't support the 'hacks' that perhaps other hypervisors (such as KVM) will to allow more granular control. In my experience though, where it does work. It is pretty stable. Where it doesn't work (usually because the PCIe device isn't PCIe 3 or you don't have real server hardware), you are limited because there are no 'hack' options.

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Mindovermaster    1,974
18 minutes ago, C:Amie said:

The ESXi bandwagon are correct, ESXi is more flexible than Hyper-V. Hyper-V uses a very 'by the book' and restricted implementation of IOMMU and doesn't support the 'hacks' that perhaps other hypervisors (such as KVM) will to allow more granular control. In my experience though, where it does work. It is pretty stable. Where it doesn't work (usually because the PCIe device isn't PCIe 3 or you don't have real server hardware), you are limited because there are no 'hack' options.

So, that's like what we said all along.

 

 

If the server is in the EXSi charts (that BudMan posted), it WILL work. It's when, like you said, an ASUS motherboard, is where you will have problems.

 

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C:Amie    51
44 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

So, that's like what we said all along.

 

 

If the server is in the EXSi charts (that BudMan posted), it WILL work. It's when, like you said, an ASUS motherboard, is where you will have problems.

 

Sure, but it can work just as well in Hyper-V, and ESXi isn't required if the OP wants to stick with Windows.

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Mindovermaster    1,974
25 minutes ago, C:Amie said:

Sure, but it can work just as well in Hyper-V, and ESXi isn't required if the OP wants to stick with Windows.

Also, from what I read, it doesn't go well with Windows 7. (server side program) It is only made for above Windows 8/8.1...

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adrynalyne    11,838
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

Also, from what I read, it doesn't go well with Windows 7. (server side program) It is only made for above Windows 8/8.1...

False. Windows 7 can be a guest In hyper-v and it works perfectly fine. Nobody with half a brain is going to use Windows 7 as a host OS for VMs in this scenario anyway. 

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Mindovermaster    1,974
1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

False. Windows 7 can be a guest In hyper-v and it works perfectly fine. 

Really? huh...

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C:Amie    51
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

Also, from what I read, it doesn't go well with Windows 7. (server side program) It is only made for above Windows 8/8.1...

If you mean that the software that the OP wants to use wants Windows 8+: I'll defer to your research on that, but again, that problem still exists under ESXi, so if the OP wants to use Hyper-V he can.

 

If you are inferring that Windows 7 doesn't run under Hyper-V, that would be incorrect. I have 7 Pro SP1 and 7 Enterprise running under 2016 and 2019. In fact the oldest version of Windows I currently have running under Hyper-V 2019 is NT 4 for Visual Studio 6.

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adrynalyne    11,838
Just now, Mindovermaster said:

Really? huh...

Yes. Not sure where you read it wasn’t. The Onion?

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Clirion    148
37 minutes ago, C:Amie said:

Sure, but it can work just as well in Hyper-V, and ESXi isn't required if the OP wants to stick with Windows.

2 things here from earlier.

His box is a domain controller.  Hyper-Should not be loaded to run VMs on a DC.

Vendor of his software has stated there is a problem with their USB dongle and Hyper-V. 

 

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Mindovermaster    1,974
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Yes. Not sure where you read it wasn’t. The Onion?

Maybe it was for an earlier version, I dunno. /shrug

5 minutes ago, C:Amie said:

If you are inferring that Windows 7 doesn't run under Hyper-V, that would be incorrect. I have 7 Pro SP1 and 7 Enterprise running under 2016 and 2019. In fact the oldest version of Windows I currently have running under Hyper-V 2019 is NT 4 for Visual Studio 6.

I wasn't talking about the guest. I was talking about the host. But now that Adrynalyne corrected me, this now is not important...

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C:Amie    51
2 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

Maybe it was for an earlier version, I dunno. /shrug

I wasn't talking about the guest. I was talking about the host.

Hyper-V doesn't run under Windows 7, no. In that respect you were correct - Virtual PC only. If you want 'Hyper-V', you need Windows 8. If you want to pass through real hardware though, you need Server 2016 or 2019.

 

5 minutes ago, Clirion said:

2 things here from earlier.

His box is a domain controller.  Hyper-Should not be loaded to run VMs on a DC.

Vendor of his software has stated there is a problem with their USB dongle and Hyper-V. 

 

Then we agree. The OP should use a dedicated hypervisor or virtualise the Windows DC's onto whatever virtualisation appliance they want to use.

 

Can't comment on the compatibility: I'd be surprised though if it were true that this product has problem in Hyper-V. The OP's statment was that "hyper-v has issues with USB dongles". I've two 2019 servers with passed through USB controllers around me right now where it works fine. USB is resource contained and a generic bus transfer technology. Either the entire bus is passed through or it isn't - just as on ESXi. I would also be quite impressed if the vendor had actually tested their kit passed through on any hypervisor. TV Tuner manufacturers certainly haven't.

My feeling is that they were making a general (incorrect) comment that "Hyper-V doesn't support hardware passthrough" wrapped in a statement that "it has issues". Hyper-V for Windows Server does work with USB passthrough provided that you give it the entire controller and thus all ports on the controller (and in my experience that it isn't an on-board controller).

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