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On-Premise email vs Cloud

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+Bryan R.    1,147

In this day and age, it seems as though G-Suite has all the benefits of Exchange. So how would YOU explain the benefits of an on-premise Exchange versus a cloud solution be it G-Suite or O365? I want to hear YOUR professional reasons.

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Riva    1,153
2 hours ago, Bryan R. said:

Nice, I would expect O365 to offer that since Exchange standard has the functionality, thanks for confirming that. As opposed to Google who makes you pay extra.

 

These are the little things that aren't talked about enough.

All on premises Exchange functionality is in O365 as well.

You still need your own backup software and storage (cloud or on premises) with both G-Suite and O365 as you can never ask Microsoft to roll you back to day x or give you a copy etc. The backups Microsoft does is for their own disaster recovery only.

A friend of mine who is an IT manager at a global company was forced to transition from O365 to G suite cos thats what the new owners wanted. He claims G-suite is garbage in comparison to o365 and I kinda agree, you get a lot more for your money with o365 for less - especially on an o365 E3 license.

With O365 you can ensure your users keep using their AD accounts to sign in to exchange, skype, teams, sharepoint etc.. via AD sync to Azure AD, thats something you cant get with Gsuite. Company I work for no longer uses local anything, everything is Azure AD with O365.

Your users dont have to give up Office to sign in to email and docs via browser

You get a lot more productivity and collaboration tools with O365 than G-Suite. For example, Exchange, Skype for Business, Teams, SharePoint, Azure AD, Flow, PowerApps, Office Professional Plus (o365 subscription), etc.

You dont need to retrain users

I can keep going on...

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sc302    1,725

Benefits of the cloud:

You don't have to worry about your TL backups, far less chance of a db dismount due to missed backups or for that matter the storage of backups.

You don't have to worry about local storage space, essentially it is unlimited depending on plan you go with

You don't have to worry about another appliance for legal hold, depending on plan this is part of the plan.  

You don't have to worry about power or AC 

Cost....I have a 500 user environment.  To purchase all of the Exchange Licensing plus all of the Office licensing plus all of the hardware I would have cost more just to have exchange and the basic office package.  With 365 e3, I get all of that plus onedrive (backup desktops), sharepoint, teams (replaces webex or a solution like that), as well as a few other goodies.  I priced it out 500k for just exchange and office or 100k per year for o365 e3 with third party backup.

 

 

Benefits of on prem:

Doesn't get hit as often as the cloud.  We have had more mail breeches due to password simplicity even though password complexity is enabled. 

 

You manage everything...neither good nor bad but you can pull the plug anytime you want.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Need to get better password solutions on prem or move everyone over to 2fa...the best solution is the combination of the  both.  Never once a mail breech in 10+ years of hosting on prem, 2 known service breeches in less than 6 months after moving to the cloud.  AD password complexity set, minimum of 8 characters, 90 day pass change, etc.  The issue is that even though the password complexity is set, people still utilize simple passwords...these passwords are part of the compromised list.  There are ways to enable password restrictions so that they do not utilize compromised passwords....that would be part of microsoft 365 as opposed to office365, you can also incorporate microsoft 2fa with microsoft 365 into your  vpn.  There is a lot of security to enable  in the cloud, take your time, do your research...don't rush a migration.

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+Bryan R.    1,147

I think the most obvious answer is offline access to all email data. But I'm very curious what others have to say

 

I think G-Suite even has a round-about way to send-as another account so I'm being very hard pressed to find to any advanced feature Exchange has over G-Suite.

 

 

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+mram    263
3 hours ago, Bryan R. said:

In this day and age, it seems as though G-Suite has all the benefits of Exchange. So how would YOU explain the benefits of an on-premise Exchange versus a cloud solution be it G-Suite or O365? I want to hear YOUR professional reasons.

In a really simple phrase:  No infrastructure worries.

That's often enough, by far.

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+Bryan R.    1,147

To be honest here I have a client who I've migrated from G-Suite to on-premise Exchange 2019. The owner of the company has a kid who codes for Google and now hates Outlook. The owner is actually contemplating going BACK to G-Suite even though they have the licensing for Exchange.

 

I'm trying to be objective here and try to sell the intangible values offered by on-premise. Security is one I'm trying to get through,

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sc302    1,725

My brother doesn’t code but he is also a googler.  It doesn’t impact my decision to choose Microsoft over google.  I have no brand loyalty regardless.  Outlook works just fine tbh, it is just another mail client.....change your views and ui to experience it in the way you like.  You don’t have to utilize it the way it defaults out of the box. 

 

 

It is really not a good financial decision to do that unless they can recoup their money somehow.   It was not an inexpensive change. 

 

 

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+Bryan R.    1,147

I've tried suggesting Outlook for Web, hell I just use the built-in Mail app. It's their call but I hope I'm not the guy who is migrating everything back.

 

In any case, I guess the two major candidates for on-premise are offline access and security.

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+Bryan R.    1,147

Am I crazy for considering geo-political issues a reason for on-premise? I feel that the cloud/internet is vulnerable but am I crazy? Their entire email history for every account is behind a single online user/password.

 

Does anyone think Google could be hacked and lose user data?

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sc302    1,725

Security.  With caching, email is avail offline.  

 

 

Yes I do think google can be hacked.   It comes down to user passwords and their ability to not use common passwords like P@ssw0rd1 which hits every password complexity rule and length or something as preposterous.  

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+Bryan R.    1,147
1 minute ago, sc302 said:

Security.  With caching, email is avail offline.  

I looked into that though, G-Suite only goes back 90 days. O365 doesn't have offline attachments. Pretty major pitfalls IMO. This is for a Design firm so attachments are crucial.

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sc302    1,725

Let me check on that offline attachments thing for you.  I have o365 and I am pretty sure it does have offline attachments.  I am also pretty sure I can set to indefinite.  In a support call, need a few. 

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sc302    1,725

@Bryan R. I was able to kill the network, forcing my computer into offline mode before opening outlook.   Once I opened outlook, I was able to go back to oct of 2018 and open an attachment.  O365 does cache attachments.  

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+Bryan R.    1,147
1 hour ago, sc302 said:

@Bryan R. I was able to kill the network, forcing my computer into offline mode before opening outlook.   Once I opened outlook, I was able to go back to oct of 2018 and open an attachment.  O365 does cache attachments.  

I was actually talking about Outlook on the Web. In settings you can enable offline access but I read that it doesn't download attachments. Thanks for confirming that with Outlook though.

 

I'm amazed G-Suite still has a 25MB limit on attachments.

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sc302    1,725
10 minutes ago, Bryan R. said:

I was actually talking about Outlook on the Web. In settings you can enable offline access but I read that it doesn't download attachments. Thanks for confirming that with Outlook though.

 

I'm amazed G-Suite still has a 25MB limit on attachments.

I use the full client.  It is easier and has a bit more power than the web version simply because it uses the desktop app.  The web app is good but the full word app is a better editor.  You can change the UI to be just about anything you want with desktop Outlook.  The web interface is just quick and dirty to get information out...honestly I only use the App on the phone or the Desktop app, I have completely forgot about OWA.

 

If you have the google drive, or one drive from microsoft, you can easily share large files via a link...with o365 it all integrates and knows your most recent files you worked on if on onedrive or sharepoint (or your desktop or documents folders that are auto sync'd...saves as you work, almost 0 file/data loss due to forgetting to save).

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farmeunit    667
1 hour ago, Bryan R. said:

I was actually talking about Outlook on the Web. In settings you can enable offline access but I read that it doesn't download attachments. Thanks for confirming that with Outlook though.

 

I'm amazed G-Suite still has a 25MB limit on attachments.

Honestly, you shouldn't be sending large attachments through email anyway.  That's what Drive is for.  Link Sharing and such.  Of course that doesn't work for offline attachments, but they can download and have them if they plan on going offline.

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+InsaneNutter    1,339

Honestly i'd be trying to sell the benefits of Office 365 over G-Suite, not on-premise Exchange vs G-Suite.

 

If you use any Microsoft products already then Office 365 E3 is a pretty compelling package for the cost per user when you consider everything included.

 

I'm not someone who thinks everything should be in the cloud, however to do email on premises and do it right wouldn't be cost effective vs a cloud solution. Even more so when you look at everything else included with the cloud offerings from either Google or Microsoft.

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+Bryan R.    1,147
16 hours ago, sc302 said:

I use the full client.  It is easier and has a bit more power than the web version simply because it uses the desktop app.  The web app is good but the full word app is a better editor.  You can change the UI to be just about anything you want with desktop Outlook.  The web interface is just quick and dirty to get information out...honestly I only use the App on the phone or the Desktop app, I have completely forgot about OWA.

 

If you have the google drive, or one drive from microsoft, you can easily share large files via a link...with o365 it all integrates and knows your most recent files you worked on if on onedrive or sharepoint (or your desktop or documents folders that are auto sync'd...saves as you work, almost 0 file/data loss due to forgetting to save).

I wouldn't even be talking about OWA if this user didn't hate Outlook so much. I figured they were used to Gmail, they may do well with OWA.

14 hours ago, farmeunit said:

Honestly, you shouldn't be sending large attachments through email anyway.  That's what Drive is for.  Link Sharing and such.  Of course that doesn't work for offline attachments, but they can download and have them if they plan on going offline.

That is what people say but email will adapt. Brand new businesses with millennials at the helm expect more and won't be told otherwise.

6 hours ago, InsaneNutter said:

Honestly i'd be trying to sell the benefits of Office 365 over G-Suite, not on-premise Exchange vs G-Suite.

 

If you use any Microsoft products already then Office 365 E3 is a pretty compelling package for the cost per user when you consider everything included.

 

I'm not someone who thinks everything should be in the cloud, however to do email on premises and do it right wouldn't be cost effective vs a cloud solution. Even more so when you look at everything else included with the cloud offerings from either Google or Microsoft.

I would agree but in this case the user loves the Gmail interface so there is no competing with that.

 

On another note, can anyone confirm how Google accounts are configured in Outlook? Is it essentially still a glorified IMAP account using PST storage?

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+Bryan R.    1,147

Interesting, so in order to sync G-Suite's mail, calendar, and contacts with Outlook you have to use and always run this workaround tool:

https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gappssync

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n_K    2,392
2 hours ago, Bryan R. said:

Interesting, so in order to sync G-Suite's mail, calendar, and contacts with Outlook you have to use and always run this workaround tool:

https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gappssync

Kerio have something similar for their mail server too.

 

My personal opinion is on-premesis always trumps cloud. I want control over the data and who has access to it, not some company where god only knows could be happening, but that is becoming a very rare site indeed.

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sc302    1,725

The down side with mail is that it is sent in the clear.   Anybody can intercept and read.   Kind of sucks tbh.  Very rare for it to be encrypted with Tls.   IMO it really doesn’t matter where it exists.   It matters more about security and how you secure your environment. 

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adrynalyne    11,892
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, sc302 said:

The down side with mail is that it is sent in the clear.   Anybody can intercept and read.   Kind of sucks tbh.  Very rare for it to be encrypted with Tls.   IMO it really doesn’t matter where it exists.   It matters more about security and how you secure your environment. 

I don’t know that it’s that rare. We send encrypted email when it’s sensitive info. It’s built into Office 365 email accounts. 

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sc302    1,725
7 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

I don’t know that it’s that rare. We send encrypted email when it’s sensitive info. It’s built into Office 365 email accounts. 

You manually elect to do that. Not everyone does that though. 

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adrynalyne    11,892
2 hours ago, sc302 said:

You manually elect to do that. Not everyone does that though. 

Sure, but that doesn’t make it rare, that makes it a choice. 

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sc302    1,725
2 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

Sure, but that doesn’t make it rare, that makes it a choice. 

The way o365 does it is by rule matching.  What happens when users don’t follow the rules?  Can you guarantee it then? Can you force encryption then.  

 

Understand that my users are special, probably more special than yours.  I have to plan around the  users that load wet paper into a copier, call us to tell them what time zone they are in, and the extra special what do I do at this login prompt for over a month.  I have to expect they will do whatever the hell they want and circumvent rules or forget to manually enable encryption.  

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+BudMan    3,517
3 hours ago, sc302 said:

call us to tell them what time zone they are in

hehehe - some very special uses you have there ;)

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