After 3 deaths, CDC says to stop using e-cigarettes [450+ cases]

[DocM]

3 hours ago, Xilo said:

It's NOT E-CIGS. It's bootleg THC carts that contain Vitamin E acetate. E-Juice contains no Vitamin E acetate.

 

The whole e-cig crap is sensationalism fueled  by big tobacco.

 

It could be most any oily additive, not just Vitamin E acetate (an anti-oxident preservative).  If a flavoring is oily, it may also have bad results.

 

The mechanism is that oil coats the bronchial structures and alveoli, hindering permeability and likely causing a lipoid (oil) pneumonia.

[Xilo]

1 hour ago, DocM said:

 

It could be most any oily additive, not just Vitamin E acetate (an anti-oxident preservative).  If a flavoring is oily, it may also have bad results.

 

The mechanism is that oil coats the bronchial structures and alveoli, hindering permeability and likely causing a lipoid (oil) pneumonia.

Again, e-cigs and e-juice have been around for 10+ years. No real issues until recently when counterfeit THC carts have become huge. The only linkage is most of the cases they also smoke from JUUL. Other countries aren't really having a problem with e-cigs either. It's sensationalism by Big Tobacco.

[DocM]

On 9/22/2019 at 6:12 PM, Xilo said:

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It's sensationalism by Big Tobacco.

 

As noted by others Big Tobacco, which as an asthmatic I'm NO fan of, is increasingly invested in e-cigarettes (and Big Weed) so I see no real benefit for them doing a general hit on e-cigarettes. Try to damage privately-held  Juul in a short-term gambit, sure.

Edited September 22, 2019 by DocM

[ThaCrip]

16 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

Unfortunately, in my state they've legalized pot. So instead of cigarette smoke my entire living room once a week is hotboxed by our neighbors.

 

It's disgusting, and what's even worse is they have children in the house (which medically is terrible for them).

Marijuana is legal in my state to as of not all that long ago (i think roughly a year ago) but smoking in public places (like restaurants etc) I am sure is still banned as I think that went into effect sometime in the 2000's decade if I recall correctly.

[siah1214]

53 minutes ago, DocM said:

 

As noted by others Big Tobacco, which as an asthmatic I'm NO fan of, is increasingly invested in e-cigarettes (and Big Weed) so I see no real benefit for them doing a general hit on e-cigarettes. Try to damage privately-held  Juul in a short-term gambit, sure.

The best analogy I've seen is you've got a coworker that you're secretly trying to get fired, but if that doesn't work you still want to be on good terms with them so you're amicable to them in their presence. 

 

Basically, big tobacco is threatened by ecigarettes for a lot of reasons, they're not as addictive, way cheaper than smoking, etc.  In their perfect world everyone would keep smoking, so they'll push to get them banned / drum up bad press against them. However, if this doesn't work, they don't want to be left behind by the market so they invest in companies like Juul so they still have an income stream.  

[Xilo]

2 hours ago, DocM said:

 

As noted by others Big Tobacco, which as an asthmatic I'm NO fan of, is increasingly invested in e-cigarettes (and Big Weed) so I see no real benefit for them doing a general hit on e-cigarettes. Try to damage privately-held  Juul in a short-term gambit, sure.

They want to make it so only they can produce e-cig equipment and juice. Monopoly on the market. That's how. THey tried before.

[FloatingFatMan]

7 hours ago, Xilo said:

Again, e-cigs and e-juice have been around for 10+ years. No real issues until recently when counterfeit THC carts have become huge. The only linkage is most of the cases they also smoke from JUUL. Other countries aren't really having a problem with e-cigs either. It's sensationalism by Big Tobacco.

10 years isn't long enough to say that for sure.

[wakjak]

And now big tobacco are stepping in... 

 

Now you kids can vape your carcinogens made from big tobacco or smoke them. Either way, big tobacco isn't losing out any more. 

 

[DocM]

Altria already owned about 1/3 of Juul.

 

Our local news just reported Juul is also discontinuing US advertising.

 

9 deaths, 530 cases.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/business/juul-ceo-resigns/index.html

[Memphis]

On 9/22/2019 at 10:48 PM, FloatingFatMan said:

10 years isn't long enough to say that for sure.

For long term effects sure. However, these cases are presenting as acute exacerbation including acute respiratory distress syndrome. These things would certainly have been seen early on. I am sure vaping is unhealthy, but that does not mean that what we are seeing today is a result of long term vaping rather than illicit e-liquid. 

[FloatingFatMan]

9 minutes ago, sidroc said:

For long term effects sure. However, these cases are presenting as acute exacerbation including acute respiratory distress syndrome. These things would certainly have been seen early on. I am sure vaping is unhealthy, but that does not mean that what we are seeing today is a result of long term vaping rather than illicit e-liquid. 

Consider a few things.

 

1. There are ZERO controls over what goes into e-liquids, so how can anyone claim they're safe?

2. Big tobacco have been poisoning people for hundreds of years, so why would their e-liquids be any safer than their tobacco products?

3. Inhaling ANYTHING, even just water vapour over a long period, is NOT good for you, period.  Lungs are designed to process air, not vapour. They have a limited capability to handle extremely moisture laden air, but we are not fish!

 

So really, claiming general vaping is safe and it's just dodgy e-liquids at fault is just a fallacy.  You inhale anything long term, it's gonna bite you in the butt.

 

Oh, and for full disclosure.  I'm an ex-smoker. I quit 20 years ago on the day my wife told me she was pregnant with our first child.

[Memphis]

19 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Consider a few things.

 

1. There are ZERO controls over what goes into e-liquids, so how can anyone claim they're safe?

2. Big tobacco have been poisoning people for hundreds of years, so why would their e-liquids be any safer than their tobacco products?

3. Inhaling ANYTHING, even just water vapour over a long period, is NOT good for you, period.  Lungs are designed to process air, not vapour. They have a limited capability to handle extremely moisture laden air, but we are not fish!

 

So really, claiming general vaping is safe and it's just dodgy e-liquids at fault is just a fallacy.  You inhale anything long term, it's gonna bite you in the butt.

 

Oh, and for full disclosure.  I'm an ex-smoker. I quit 20 years ago on the day my wife told me she was pregnant with our first child.

There is absolutely nothing I disagree with in this post. As I said, I am not defending what I consider to be a bad practice, I just am unconvinced that what we are seeing now is due to long term use. I am of the belief that what we are seeing now will be found to be related to a specific chemical in specific eliquids given how the symptoms are acute. What I expect from long term use is as follows

1, COPD - The hotter the vape, the higher chance of long term damage to the Alveoli. This is something that we will know the answer to in a decade or two when long term studies can be done.

2, Increased blood pressure and heart rate with increased risk for Coronary and peripheral arterial disease, Stroke, and Heart attack. Nicotine increases blood pressure and heart rate. Combined with high LDL levels and one would expect those conditions. However, Nicotine is not in and of itself a carcinogen so the jury is out on the potential effects of additives in e-liquid. Regulation must happen to help combat this.

3, Potential for esophageal cancer in people using powerful vape mods. Even with no carcinogens present, repeated exposure to hot liquids and smokes can cause damage to DNA and increase chances of cancer. This effect has even been observed with people who drink hot tea and coffee.

3, Lung damage resulting in increased susceptibility to infection. Again, long term studies will be needed to know for sure.

 

[DocM]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:29 PM, sidroc said:

There is absolutely nothing I disagree with in this post. As I said, I am not defending what I consider to be a bad practice, I just am unconvinced that what we are seeing now is due to long term use. I am of the belief that what we are seeing now will be found to be related to a specific chemical in specific eliquids given how the symptoms are acute. What I expect from long term use is as follows
 

1-4

 

Agree on all points, 100%. 

 

I have the very strong feeling we're exchanging one set of largely known problems for a whole new set of unknown problems. 

[The Rev]

This will all blow over once the US Govt figures out how to regulate the industry.  They only care because they're losing money from cigarette taxes, and right now they need every penny they can get.  I'm not saying they'll never stop advocating against it, but why ban something if you can monetize it?  

I really think the end game for the DOH is to close down all the "little guys" (small, independent vape shops not bankrolled by multi-billion dollar companies) so they can cut down on the number of businesses they'd have to regulate to just a handful like the combustible cigarette industry.  With every Tom, Dick, and Harry opening up a vape shop, and given that the DOH literally sat on it's hands for so long since the introduction of the e-cig, this is the cheapest way to go.  Once the "vape manufacturer" numbers fall to a manageable level, this kind of thing won't make news anymore.  It's kinda sad tho, cuz the govt loves to tout the numbers of small businesses starting across the country, and do things to make it easier for people to enter the market as a small business...  But in this case they sat around waiting far too long and painted themselves into a corner.

 

[DocM]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/10/vaping-linked-lung-illness-looks-like-exposure-to-mustard-gas-doctors-say/

Vaping-linked lung illness looks like exposure to mustard gas, doctors say

Close examination of lung tissue from 17 people with severe vaping-linked injuries found a type of tissue damage seen in people exposed to toxic fumes and chemical weapons, such as mustard gas.

That's according to a short report in The New England Journal of Medicine published Wednesday by doctors from the Mayo Clinic.

It's still unclear what's causing a rash of life-threatening lung injuries in some people who vape. As of October 1, there have been 1,080 confirmed or probable cases in 48 states and the US Virgin Islands, including 18 deaths in 15 states, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Investigators are focusing on contaminants and counterfeit vaping products, particularly those containing THC, the primary psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Nearly 80% of 578 patients that the CDC has detailed data on reported using THC-containing vaping products in the months before falling ill. Some of the products that have come up in the investigations include Dank Vapes, Moon Rocks, Off White, and TKO, according to The New York Times.

The outbreak is "continuing at a brisk pace," Dr. Anne Schuchat, CDC's principal deputy director, said in a conference call with reporters Thursday.
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From the letter,

 

...we believe that the histologic changes instead suggest that vaping-associated lung injury represents a form of airway-centered chemical pneumonitis from one or more inhaled toxic substances rather than exogenous lipoid pneumonia as such, but the agents responsible remain unknown.

[DocM]

Over 2,000 people sick, 39 dead.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/life/wellness/2019/11/08/us-focusing-vitamin-cause-vaping-lung-injuries/40571903/

 

Quote

U.S. focusing on vitamin E as cause of vaping lung injuries

 

U.S. health officials are looking closely at vitamin E acetate as a potential cause of the severe lung injuries that have sickened thousands of Americans who have used vaping devices, including more than three dozen who died as a result.

A study of fluid taken from the lungs of 29 patients battling the condition found all of them contained vitamin E acetate, according to a report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Friday. The samples sent to the CDC came from 10 different states and provide the first biological link in the investigation, a finding that bolster’s the agency’s confidence in the results, said Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the CDC.
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Vitamin E acetate is a gummy syrup that some illegal makers of vaping liquids add to products containing THC, the psychoactive chemical found in marijuana, in order to reduce the amount of active ingredients they need to use. The New York State Department of Health flagged vitamin E acetate as a potential cause in early September, when it found the compound in products it tested that had been used by patients with the lung damage.
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[DocM]

If this doesn't cause poo to hit the fan...

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/11/11/vaping-injured-person-gets-double-lung-transplant-henry-ford-hospital/2567973001/

 

Quote

 

Henry Ford says its doctors performed first double-lung transplant in vape-injured patient

 

Doctors at Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital have performed a double-lung transplant on a person with a vaping-related lung injury.

 

The hospital system announced Monday that it believes it is the first in the country to perform the surgery on someone who had irreparable lung damage from vaping. It plans to host a news conference Tuesday to offer more details. 

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[DocM]

Presser

 

News report

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by DocM

[DocM]

Now it's toxic metals used in the device

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vaping/toxic-metal-leached-e-cigarette-coil-permanently-scars-woman-s-n1095156

 

Quote

 

Toxic metal, leached from e-cigarette coil, permanently scars woman's lung

 

The illness is usually only seen in industrial metal workers.

 

Doctors have discovered yet another way that vaping — and vaping THC, in particular — can damage the lungs: when the metal coils of electronic cigarettes heat up to turn e-liquids into aerosols, toxic metals can leach into the liquid, leading to a rare condition usually only seen in industrial metal workers.

 

A case report published Wednesday in the European Respiratory Journal describes a 49-year-old California woman who had symptoms now known to be associated with the more than 2,000 cases of vaping illnesses nationwide: shortness of breath, coughing and wheezing.

 

But when pathologists took a close look at the woman's lung tissue, it didn't look like a typical case of EVALI, or e-cigarette, or vaping, product use associated lung injury. Instead, they saw damaged cells that had engulfed other lung cells, creating giant cells — a pattern that's typically found in an illness called hard-metal lung disease.

 

"It has a distinctive and unusual appearance that is not observed in other diseases," said case report co-author Dr. Kirk Jones, a professor of pathology at the University of California, San Francisco. "When we diagnose it, we are looking for occupational exposure to metal dust or vapor, usually cobalt, as a cause."

 

The patient — a dog walker by trade — had no such exposure. What she did have was the ZenPen brand vape pen she'd been using for six months prior to getting sick. ZenPens do not come with pre-filled cartridges, so users must purchase their e-liquid elsewhere.

 

ZenPen did not respond to NBC News' request for comment.

 

When the doctors tested the e-liquid left in the device, they found several metals: nickel, aluminum, manganese, lead, cobalt and chromium.

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