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A man who traveled from Norway to Florida to surprise his father-in-law was accidentally shot dead

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adrynalyne    12,614
5 minutes ago, techbeck said:

What if this happened in the ghetto normally associated with high crime?  Would it be different if it happened in a rich neighborhood?  What if it happened in the country vs in the city? 

 

What ifs mean nothing to the facts here and have no weight on what actually happened.  As soon as you put in what ifs, it changes the narratives and goes the way of fiction.

It wasn’t a hypothetical as much as seeing if people’s reactions change if age is thrown into the equation of where someone died because apparently they didn’t have time to assess the situation. And of no surprise, they do change. But if he didn’t have time to assess the situation and yet it’s a justified kill...then age should have literally no bearing. 

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techbeck    6,965

Of course peoples reactions change depending on the facts and circumstances of any situation.   That is a Captain Obvious assessment.   I am sure they would have been a different outcome if this situation happened in broad daylight as compared to the middle of the night when it was dark.   And telling the threat of a 4yr old under 4ft tall vs a full grown adult is not hard even if it is just a second.

 

Prove your point on the facts of this case and not made up what ifs.

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adrynalyne    12,614
11 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Of course peoples reactions change depending on the facts and circumstances of any situation.   That is a Captain Obvious assessment.   I am sure they would have been a different outcome if this situation happened in broad daylight as compared to the middle of the night when it was dark.   And telling the threat of a 4yr old under 4ft tall vs a full grown adult is not hard even if it is just a second.

 

Prove your point on the facts of this case and not made up what ifs.

Circumstances haven’t changed if there was no time to properly assess.... it was dark, a figure jumped out, and he shot them. 
 

You guys can’t have it both ways. Either he assessed the situation or he didn’t. 
 

So ok, let’s return to facts. Nothing in stand your ground says you can shoot someone for startling you. 

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techbeck    6,965

Your hypothetical of an adult vs a kid is a change in circumstances.

 

But anyway, and speaking on actual facts of this case and all 4yr olds out of the picture....he was scared off once and then came back in the middle of the night.  A guy hears a loud banging on his back door at 1130pm.  He opens the door and a stranger to him, at this point, pops out of the shadows at he home owner.  Considering the home own already had a scare not that long earlier, stranger got shot.  Sometimes all you get is a second to asses a situation and in this case, the result was unfortunate. 

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adrynalyne    12,614
9 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Your hypothetical of an adult vs a kid is a change in circumstances.

 

But anyway, and speaking on actual facts of this case and all 4yr olds out of the picture....he was scared off once and then came back in the middle of the night.  A guy hears a loud banging on his back door at 1130pm.  He opens the door and a stranger to him, at this point, pops out of the shadows at he home owner.  Considering the home own already had a scare not that long earlier, stranger got shot.  Sometimes all you get is a second to asses a situation and in this case, the result was unfortunate. 

I guess we will just to have to leave this with agree to disagree. You feel it was a clean shooting, I don’t. Thanks for the debate. 🙂

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FloatingFatMan    19,055
12 hours ago, warwagon said:

let me be the devils advocate here for a second. The guy from Norway JUMPS out of the shadow to surprise and startle a guy he's never met, that is NOT normal behavior. You don't jump out and surprise someone who you have never met before let alone to someone you have met before. Let's pretend, it wasn't the husband but some deranged criminal looking to stab him. Man runs at him from the shadow , how long does this man have to react?

 

I'm sorry, but don't just the **** out of the shadow at someone if you don't want to be potentially shot.

Small correction here.  It was his father in law...  Pretty sure they'd probably met before this...

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DocM    16,650
1 minute ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Small correction here.  It was his father in law...  Pretty sure they'd probably met before this...

 

News flash: in the dark you may not recognize your own mother. 

 

Sorry folks, this guy is like the dog who finally caught a car - and became roadkill.

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FloatingFatMan    19,055
1 minute ago, DocM said:

 

News flash: in the dark you may not recognize your own mother. 

 

Sorry folks, this guy is like the dog who finally caught a car - and became roadkill.

I'm not excusing his idiocy, just correcting on one point.  The dead guy was a total dumbass and whilst he didn't deserve to die like this, it was hardly a big surprise.  This is just a tragic incident and I feel sorry for the father in law.  Living with this, and how is daughter will react, is far worse a punishment than anything a court could do.

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adrynalyne    12,614
7 hours ago, DocM said:

 

News flash: in the dark you may not recognize your own mother. 

 

Sorry folks, this guy is like the dog who finally caught a car - and became roadkill.

News flash: if someone is out in the dark without a good flashlight, yet thought enough to have a gun, they are an idiot. 

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+trag3dy    4,138
18 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

News flash: if someone is out in the dark without a good flashlight, yet thought enough to have a gun, they are an idiot. 

This feels disingenuous. The guy had someone bang on his door earlier in the day. And then it happened again later in the night. And then he had someone jump out of the shadows at him in his own back yard.

 

Even if a gun wasn't in play here what exactly is the appropriate response according to your perfect hindsight?

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adrynalyne    12,614
1 hour ago, trag3dy said:

This feels disingenuous. The guy had someone bang on his door earlier in the day. And then it happened again later in the night. And then he had someone jump out of the shadows at him in his own back yard.

 

Even if a gun wasn't in play here what exactly is the appropriate response according to your perfect hindsight?

Assess and react accordingly. You would be surprised how effective a bright flashlight is. What idiot has a gun yet no flashlight in the dark? I keep being told, it was dark, he didn’t have time to assess the situation. So he must not have had a flashlight. He couldn’t assess the situation, yet was able to strike him in the heart ? Sure, that’s not unheard of with proper practice and training (and are able to see your target). But if he had that, why didn’t a flashlight and situational awareness play a part?  It just doesn’t add up to me. 
 

It’s also very possible the news reporting left out details that would clear this up. 

Edited by adrynalyne

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macoman    2,667
18 hours ago, Human.Online said:

OK so...

 

Pounding on the door, running away, coming back later and doing the same, then jumping out of a bush at someone.

 

Is that not meant to act as if to startle, scare and/or surprise someone?  Is it not emulating something more sinister and potentially harmful?

 

That's the situation put in front of the homeowner.

Thinking very well in your thoughts and came to the conclusion that the guy from Norway was probably an idiot or didn't plan the situation correctly. Norway is not an hour trip driving around. It is  a 12 or 15 hours trip in an airplane. You would think that a person that has such long trip would act normal and maybe do a light surprise thing appearance but don't go to the stupidity extreme and make the situation difficult and darker as he ended up dead. 

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adrynalyne    12,614
2 minutes ago, macoman said:

Thinking very well in your thoughts and came to the conclusion that the guy from Norway was probably an idiot or didn't plan the situation correctly. Norway is not an hour trip driving around. It is  a 12 or 15 hours trip in an airplane. You would think that a person that has such long trip would act normal and maybe do a light surprise thing appearance but don't go to the stupidity extreme and make the situation difficult and darker as he ended up dead. 

There is no question the dude was an idiot. My questioning is whether the end result could have been avoided with better judgement. 

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macoman    2,667
12 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

There is no question the dude was an idiot. My questioning is whether the end result could have been avoided with better judgement. 

Definitely he could had avoided it if he acted like a normal or educated person would act. 

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DocM    16,650
1 hour ago, adrynalyne said:

News flash: if someone is out in the dark without a good flashlight, yet thought enough to have a gun, they are an idiot. 

 

A firearm and flashlight are not mutually exclusive. Many gunowners have a tactical light attached under the barrel; flashlight  + laser sight.

 

streamlight-tlr-8-gun-weapon-mount-tacti

 

Problem: flashlights are only good for seeing in a narrow arc, maybe 20°-30° or so. But let's be generous and give it a 60° beam. That leaves an un-illuminated 300+° where the moron couldn't be identified.

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adrynalyne    12,614
5 minutes ago, DocM said:

 

A firearm and flashlight are not mutually exclusive. Many gunowners have a tactical light attached under the barrel; flashlight  + laser sight.

 

streamlight-tlr-8-gun-weapon-mount-tacti

 

Problem: flashlights are only good for seeing in a narrow arc, maybe 20°-30° or so. But let's be generous and give it a 60° beam. That leaves an un-illuminated 300+° where the moron couldn't be identified.

I am familiar with light attachments, though it’s not what I meant. 
 

I guess if he was slenderman it would be an issue. 

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DocM    16,650
4 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

I am familiar with light attachments, though it’s not what I meant. 
 

I guess if he was slenderman it would be an issue. 

 

I think you underestimate the difficulty of detecting and IDing at night, with or without a light. My first half hour in a night tactical range  removed all my similar confidence about it. Permanently.

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