theDose Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 question, besides those who untill recently were on aol's "instant dialup" using aim, why use aim when everyone else is using messenger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Dorr Veteran Posted February 8, 2004 Veteran Share Posted February 8, 2004 Do you mean MSN Messenger? You do know that AIM has the most active IM network, right? It's all relative to your friends. I only use MSN because of Neowin, really. Everyone I know in real life uses AIM, and I have more buddies on it than other IM services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 question, besides those who untill recently were on aol's "instant dialup" using aim, why use aim when everyone else is using messenger? As Tim said, AOL's IM network is the most widely used and everybody I know in real life uses it. The only people I've really seen that use MSN are Neowinians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihir Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 it should work just fine, if you plugged a camcorder in through firewire it would work the same as an iSight, so it should be fine. shouldn't be any need to write any drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monofonik Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 @timdorr: That's more relative to your demographic though. Here in Canada very few people use AIM, more people use MSN than anything. Also in Asia and Europe, I think the only people who generally utilise the AIM network are iChat users. People like MSN Messenger because it's simple and comes installed with Windows, just as people who use Macs prefer iChat because again, it's simple and it's bundled with its respective OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Dorr Veteran Posted February 8, 2004 Veteran Share Posted February 8, 2004 I think the only people who generally utilise the AIM network are iChat users. Wrong. You're mixing opinion and fact. An IM service is only as popular as the people you know on it. Why would you use MSN if all your friends are on AIM? AIM is more popular because of this, despite not being bundled in, or "friendlier" (though, I personally find either software equally friendly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDose Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 yea, ur right if all your friends are on it... none of my friends are on nor any of my business partners. i know more people who use yahoo messenger or icq than aim. my friends (not to slag aol), just think of aol as drink coasters via all the mass cd's they mail out. On the business side, we don't even use the ms network for msn messenger, it runs on our own network hooked into exchange which i access via vpn. all in all it's still a matter of need versus preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDose Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 one set of stats i found, are there any others? http://www.internetnews.com/stats/article.php/1366931 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Oh, NeoMayhem again. Could I expect anything better from you? Come on, you elitist ######. Get over yourselves. :rolleyes: Windows is outdated? Yeah, is that because Apple releases a new sub-version like 10.2.0000003 every other day, and names it after another member of the cat family? I think not. Windows XP fully supports the firewire standard just like any other modern OS does. And stuck with AIM? Hardly. Excuse me, but I think Apple has attempted to brainwash you so much with their nonsensical propaganda like, "with the introduction of iChat AV in Mac OS X Panther and the iSight camera, Apple revolutionized the way people communicate with each other over the Internet," that you seem have lost the ability to think for yourself (that quote was by the senior vice president of Apple's Marketing division, incidentally). Guess what? Apple revolutionized my foot. Windows users have had several IM clients with video-conferencing support long before iChatAV was even conceptualized. I have experienced across-the-continent realtime voice and video chats on MSN Messenger with my brother, with almost no frame skips on a decent broadband connection. And for that, I didn't need to shell out 150 bucks for a flipping webcam. If that's not enough, there's Yahoo Messenger, AIM, and several others out there as well. Take your pick. What makes the situation all the more amusing is that you people don't seem to know anything about even Apple's products...forget your ignorance about anything beyond your blissfull Mac world. Apparently, the iSight works just fine as a webcam on Windows, except for the built-in microphone. Maybe Apple should come out with a "revolutionary" new iMic that sells for another 100 USD? Admit it. OS X might be a great OS, but it's just another operating system for God's sake. There are clear-cut advantages and disadvantages to using the PowerPC or the x86 platform, depending on what you're using it for, and anyone who claims one is better than the other for every purpose is nothing more than a pathetically gullible victim of false advertising and baseless hype. Oh goody...another post to pick apart. Right off the bat you accused NeoMayhem of making a statement he didn't make. Go on, read the actual posts... Ok, so the 'Windows is outdated' statement was uncalled for. But your 'new sub-version like 10.2.00000003' remark is just as bad, in my opinion at least. As far as Apple 'propoganda'...you're missing the point of what the VP of marketing was actually saying. Sure, video-conferencing has been around for a long time...no one's saying it hasn't. What Apple did was make the process of setting up a video chat so easy your grandma can do it. Apple's not in the business of inventing the wheel. They're in the business of taking the wheel, smoothing out the rough spots and making it so easy to use it'd be almost absurd not to. So when he says 'Apple revolutionized the way people communicate...', he's not lying through his teeth. Good? That whole third paragraph about apple users not knowing anything about apple products...I don't even know where that came from. There was a debate as to whether the iSight would work with Windows and AIM5.5...So? Why are you getting so ****y about it? Sure, NeoMayhem made some remarks that were a bit over the top, but you didn't do much better yourself sparky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 The fact it's got video quality that's somewhere near 12409128309 to 102784102948019 times better than any other simple webcam out there. right...it's CCD is only 640x480 and ichat allows only 352x288 :x IBM Webcam Pro produces better image quality at higher resolutions and cost only $50/ -$50rebate there are plenty of much better quality webcams for much cheapers. and let's not forget regular digital cameras that can be connected using usb/usb2/firewire and can function is regular webcams. for ~$150 you'll get ~2mp camera that will blow isight out of the ballpark. the only thing going for isight is it's design. functionality and pricewise it's all the way on the buttom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 right...it's CCD is only 640x480 and ichat allows only 352x288 :xIBM Webcam Pro produces better image quality at higher resolutions and cost only $50/ -$50rebate there are plenty of much better quality webcams for much cheapers. and let's not forget regular digital cameras that can be connected using usb/usb2/firewire and can function is regular webcams. for ~$150 you'll get ~2mp camera that will blow isight out of the ballpark. the only thing going for isight is it's design. functionality and pricewise it's all the way on the buttom Again...someone seems to be forgetting one small fact about the whole iSight thing. The fact that it requires no fancy setup or configuration. None. Zip. If you've never used a Mac then your idea of 'no configuration' might be a bit off. The iSight, like most other Apple products is 'plug and play' in the truest sense of the word. The iSight is a very good quality webcam w/ mic that anyone can use. ANYONE. Find another webcam with iSight's feature set that your grandma can use w/o any help. **DISCLAIMER** I've never used an iSight, I'm only going by what I've read and what others have told me. I may be digging my own grave here, but so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron901 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 right...it's CCD is only 640x480 and ichat allows only 352x288 :xIBM Webcam Pro produces better image quality at higher resolutions and cost only $50/ -$50rebate there are plenty of much better quality webcams for much cheapers. and let's not forget regular digital cameras that can be connected using usb/usb2/firewire and can function is regular webcams. for ~$150 you'll get ~2mp camera that will blow isight out of the ballpark. the only thing going for isight is it's design. functionality and pricewise it's all the way on the buttom iSight may not be the best webcam out there, but iSight + iChat definitely provide the highest quality video of any chatting solutions out there (for home or business users). period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macman87 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 what apple is doing imo is making a complete solution for people, so people don't have to go and buy a camera and then configure their programs to work with the camera. thats how their are "revolutionizing" video conferencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEvan Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Oh, NeoMayhem again. Could I expect anything better from you? Come on, you elitist ######. Get over yourselves. :rolleyes: Windows is outdated? Yeah, is that because Apple releases a new sub-version like 10.2.0000003 every other day, and names it after another member of the cat family? I think not. Windows XP fully supports the firewire standard just like any other modern OS does. And stuck with AIM? Hardly. Excuse me, but I think Apple has attempted to brainwash you so much with their nonsensical propaganda like, "with the introduction of iChat AV in Mac OS X Panther and the iSight camera, Apple revolutionized the way people communicate with each other over the Internet," that you seem have lost the ability to think for yourself (that quote was by the senior vice president of Apple's Marketing division, incidentally). Guess what? Apple revolutionized my foot. Windows users have had several IM clients with video-conferencing support long before iChatAV was even conceptualized. I have experienced across-the-continent realtime voice and video chats on MSN Messenger with my brother, with almost no frame skips on a decent broadband connection. And for that, I didn't need to shell out 150 bucks for a flipping webcam. If that's not enough, there's Yahoo Messenger, AIM, and several others out there as well. Take your pick. What makes the situation all the more amusing is that you people don't seem to know anything about even Apple's products...forget your ignorance about anything beyond your blissfull Mac world. Apparently, the iSight works just fine as a webcam on Windows, except for the built-in microphone. Maybe Apple should come out with a "revolutionary" new iMic that sells for another 100 USD? Admit it. OS X might be a great OS, but it's just another operating system for God's sake. There are clear-cut advantages and disadvantages to using the PowerPC or the x86 platform, depending on what you're using it for, and anyone who claims one is better than the other for every purpose is nothing more than a pathetically gullible victim of false advertising and baseless hype. :woot: Amen to that my friend... you have spoken the truth as if it were from this so called "GOD" i hear everyone talking about himself. monofonik Posted on Feb 8 2004, 03:57 @timdorr: That's more relative to your demographic though. Here in Canada very few people use AIM, more people use MSN than anything. Also in Asia and Europe, I think the only people who generally utilise the AIM network are iChat users. People like MSN Messenger because it's simple and comes installed with Windows, just as people who use Macs prefer iChat because again, it's simple and it's bundled with its respective OS. So you mean to tell me that the AIM network is only popular now because of something APPLE created? MUWAHAHAHAHA Funniest thing I've heard all day. And only reason Ichat is simple and easy to use like the macs, is because the people who use macs are simple and slow 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEvan Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Again...someone seems to be forgetting one small fact about the whole iSight thing.The fact that it requires no fancy setup or configuration. None. Zip. If you've never used a Mac then your idea of 'no configuration' might be a bit off. The iSight, like most other Apple products is 'plug and play' in the truest sense of the word. The iSight is a very good quality webcam w/ mic that anyone can use. ANYONE. Find another webcam with iSight's feature set that your grandma can use w/o any help. **DISCLAIMER** I've never used an iSight, I'm only going by what I've read and what others have told me. I may be digging my own grave here, but so be it. FIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSST of all, Webcams are pieces of ****, and they take ****ty photos... 'nuff said. Second of all, my 19.99$ logitec messanger quick cam took a whole 1 second to install. pluged it into my usb port, and away I was going. No setup required. Microphone works (even though it's a piece of crap) and the thing can take pictures in windows without any extra software. Beat that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 So you mean to tell me that the AIM network is only popular now because of something APPLE created? MUWAHAHAHAHA Funniest thing I've heard all day. And only reason Ichat is simple and easy to use like the macs, is because the people who use macs are simple and slow 'nuff said. your remarks are even worse than xpmagic's... are you that immature and naive as to believe that the only people that use macs are simple and slow..."'nuff said"?? If you are, then I apologize...I shouldn't be talking down to someone so handicapped as yourself. If you aren't...then you're just trolling...in which case, just shut up. You wanna call someone on an incorrect comment they made? Fine...but don't go and screw it up by making a dumbass remark of your own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 (edited) Again...someone seems to be forgetting one small fact about the whole iSight thing.The fact that it requires no fancy setup or configuration. None. Zip. again...someone seems to be talking about of their rear oriface. majority of webcams on windows do no require any software what so ever to work. which is what usb was designed for, as you put it: plug and play' in the truest sense of the word. Find another webcam with iSight's feature set that your grandma can use w/o any help. how many grandmas can afford osx-capable mac+$150 cam vs baseline $300 puter which already comes w/ a webcam.yes you might not get same image quality, but your granda isn't computer savvy enough to know the difference. iSight may not be the best webcam out there, but iSight + iChat definitely provide the highest quality video of any chatting solutions out there (for home or business users). period. it's obvious you have no freakin idea what's out there and is blindly defending everything-apple like a true zealot. like i said above iChat support videos of only up to 352x288. there are countless windows applications out there that support resolutions over 352x288 at 30fps, some even over 1024x768 provided you have enough bandwidth. combine that with supperior image quality of 2mp digicam and iSight + iChat combo looks even worse. it doesn't look like iChat support true videoconferencing, ie more than 1-on-1. for many business it's a must feature, in such case iChat isn't anywhere near top of the list, if even considered at all. it would be truelly innovative if apple released high image quality digicam that supported over 640x480 and iChat that wasn't limited to such icon-sized resolutions. they are supposed to be forward thinking...if people don't have enough bandwidth now, they will in the future. if apple would've done that, i wouldn't be talking here :whistle: Edited February 9, 2004 by MxxCon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 FIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSST of all, Webcams are pieces of ****, and they take ****ty photos... 'nuff said. Second of all, my 19.99$ logitec messanger quick cam took a whole 1 second to install. pluged it into my usb port, and away I was going. No setup required. Microphone works (even though it's a piece of crap) and the thing can take pictures in windows without any extra software. Beat that. Beat that? Uh...do you mean to tell me you're going to stand there and say "all webcams are crap" and then say "find a better webcam that's easier to use than my $20 'piece of sh*t'"?? That's rich. No really. You have no idea what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 MxxCon...can I ask you one favor? Could you not quote multiple users in one post? Please? And if you insist, then at least tell us all who you're quoting. Is that ok? Oh, and stop using that font...i think my right eye is starting to bleed. Ok, so two favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dick Montage Subscriber² Posted February 9, 2004 Subscriber² Share Posted February 9, 2004 FIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSST of all, Webcams are pieces of ****, and they take ****ty photos... 'nuff said. Dude, chill!!! Off topic, but I have a great Logitech webcam, no idea of what model. They are not designed to take pictures at high quality, thats what digital cameras are for. However, as a webcam it works fine, quality is excellent for the purpose desired, and the mic is great. If you have a crappy Labtec, thats your issue, but if you get a decen webcam, you may feel like retracting your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 it would be truelly innovative if apple released high image quality digicam that supported over 640x480 and iChat that wasn't limited to such icon-sized resolutions. they are supposed to be forward thinking...if people don't have enough bandwidth now, they will in the future.if apple would've done that, i wouldn't be talking here :whistle: You know...it's funny how the average forum junkie feels that he has more knowledge and business saavy in him than an entire R&D business unit. Yes, the iChat does 352x288 video max...But you know why? So the video-conferencing can be speedy and clear for everyone...everyone. Sometimes we neowinians fail to realize there's a whole world out there beyond our super-broadband, 'upgrade your PC every 4 months' mindset. The average user is still on a connection that probably isn't much faster than ISDN. Apple wanted to make a video chat product that was virtually guaranteed to work smoothly for everyone. The cost of such a goal is that they can't cater to the tech junkies out there like us. Why should Apple have released a product that would have worked ideally on bandwidth that we don't have yet? If the average user's bandwidth goes up four fold in the next year, you can be damned sure Apple will be there with an iSight that does 1024x768 video chat. But since there's not much use for it right now, there's no need to waste time developing it. But then again...what do I know...I'm just a forum junkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dick Montage Subscriber² Posted February 9, 2004 Subscriber² Share Posted February 9, 2004 My feeling on this, is that I am particularly suprised that Apple's offering is so low quality. I am not saying that it makes it inferior, but I tend to subscribe to the idea that you get a high quality webcam + mic, then let the software dictate what resolution + sampling rate you broadcast at - so people with broadband get HQ, and people with narrowband get LQ. Thats what a lot of PC users tend to do (amoung my peer group anyway) - get a great cam, that has other potential uses, and can scale upwards to higher quality when needed, but restrict it when using in app like MSN with parents on narroband. If you do not subscribe to the theory of constantly upgrading, then you will be stuck at a lower reslution, when everyone is using higher. By initially buying a better cam, I no longer need to upgrade for a longer length of time. Apple products are often seen as high quality products, but this seems to be a rebranding of AIM and a lousy (but stylish) webcam, at a very high price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Jack31081, how would it hurt Apple to release iChat that supported 640x480.. to utilize full potential of their own cam? having more than 3 choices in resolution is too complicated? :whistle: yes, not everybody has "phat-pipe", but in this case "lowest common denominator" isn't necessary. i'm sure when more people have faster connection Apple will re-release iChat w/ higher resolution once again raving they "innovated and revolutionized" the industry :x , call it iChat+ or whatever else and charge another $30 for it, or free with another retail version of service pack. also i'm sure you know that you can use Firewire as a 400mbit tcp/ip network link, and with Apple's fancyass FireWire800 - 800mbit...wouldn't it be nice to be able to brag that you can have real time video between macs at full hdtv resolution? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Dorr Veteran Posted February 9, 2004 Veteran Share Posted February 9, 2004 and let's not forget regular digital cameras that can be connected using usb/usb2/firewire and can function is regular webcams. for ~$150 you'll get ~2mp camera that will blow isight out of the ballpark.the only thing going for isight is it's design. functionality and pricewise it's all the way on the buttom But that camera will not capture at 30fps. Hell, not many USB webcams will support 30fps. If you're thinking in terms of static images, then the still cam will win. That's what it's designed for. But, the iSight and other cameras are going for full motion video. That's a whole different type of problem; another dimension, really. So, think along the 4th dimension and you'll realize the iSight isn't all that bad. If you compare it to products in it's market (like the quickcam pro 4000), it's actually a pretty reasonable price for what you're getting. Plus, it offers some features that other cams don't or can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 actually many digicams, while in standalone mode do not support video capture, once connected to computer will become 'true' webcams, ie they will support video at up to 30fps. in standalone mode cam needs to dump images to memstick or xD or other media, and such media is often not fast enough to handle 30fps, however in webcam mode they bypass internal storage and feed video directly to usb connection.. according to pricegrabber, QuickCam Pro 4000 is ~$70 and QuickCam Orbit is ~$100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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