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Why so much Google junk dependency in the news comment section?

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RejZoR    581

I've decided to erase creepy uncle Google from my life and thus have everything Google blocked on a router/browser level. However, I'm unable to post any comments on your news feed because my router/browser is going crazy blocking all the crap from Google you have in place.

 

apis.google.com

ajax.googleapis.com

fonts.googleapis.com

www.google.com

 

Why is all this crap from Google necessary so the thing even runs? I really like Neowin as source of news and I often comment on things, but now it has become a complete no go because your site seems to depend on Google stuff so heavily you can't use it unless you basically hand over your entire life to it and trust their pinky promise of privacy.

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adrynalyne    13,065
3 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I've decided to erase creepy uncle Google from my life and thus have everything Google blocked on a router/browser level. However, I'm unable to post any comments on your news feed because my router/browser is going crazy blocking all the crap from Google you have in place.

 

apis.google.com

ajax.googleapis.com

fonts.googleapis.com

www.google.com

 

Why is all this crap from Google necessary so the thing even runs? I really like Neowin as source of news and I often comment on things, but now it has become a complete no go because your site seems to depend on Google stuff so heavily you can't use it unless you basically hand over your entire life to it and trust their pinky promise of privacy.

Analytics, font rendering, ads.  They aren’t going to change it, and honestly they don’t need to. 

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Brandon H    3,503

google provides more than analytics; they provide live updating directories for web developers for fonts, APIs, jquery libraries ect.

ajax is part of jquery and it's essential to many of this site's live scripts such as FPN comments section and the mini-spy

 

none of those listed in your post are analytics they are those that I mentioned

 

by blocking all of google you're blocking more than just ads and analytics

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shockz    6,890
9 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I've decided to erase creepy uncle Google from my life and thus have everything Google blocked on a router/browser level. However, I'm unable to post any comments on your news feed because my router/browser is going crazy blocking all the crap from Google you have in place.

 

apis.google.com

ajax.googleapis.com

fonts.googleapis.com

www.google.com

 

Why is all this crap from Google necessary so the thing even runs? I really like Neowin as source of news and I often comment on things, but now it has become a complete no go because your site seems to depend on Google stuff so heavily you can't use it unless you basically hand over your entire life to it and trust their pinky promise of privacy.

Tinfoil hat on there pretty tight there. 

 

Ajax frameworks is probably why you can't do anything... google what Ajax is if you want to know why, but it's basically scripting that any site uses nowadays, Google just happens to have some nice packages that provide a good base to build off. 

 

Google scraping what fonts your browser renders and frameworks to generate the look and feel of a page? Shock. Horror. You'll probably have half the internet broken for you which such an encompassing block.

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RejZoR    581

@shockz

Why is it necessary to always put down people who don't like totally creepy behavior from mega corporations? Just because everyone just carelessly and without any kind of doubt uses Google doesn't mean they are absolutely harmless totally not creepy mega company. Just like you don't report all your happenings in your real every day life to some company that you have no relation with, how is this situation with Google any different? And my life is pretty good without any Google in my life, thank you very much. Like, literally no different because there is bunch of really good services that are not centralized to a single data hoarder and I have a choice there. I can simply opt using something else instead of Google Maps or GMail. Except with nonsense like this here, where you don't. I wouldn't mind if Neowin used Google's prepackaged code locally. As long as it's not pinging back Google every time, do it as much as you want. Pulling it every time from their servers, that's the problem. Doing so you literally say "Hey Google, this user is now using webpage Neowin". it's how they are building user profiles and selling it to advertisers. How else do you think Google makes billions every year? Magic? Would you be ok that such activity would constantly be leaving a trail behind you everywhere you go and is handing it over to a company whose services you don't even need, want or use? Just like I don't use Facebook and I don't want their stupid Like buttons and other beacons trailing me around, I expect the same thing from Google. Or at least have such ability. Yet that seems to be incredibly hard with mentality like this here and with amount of webpages that are doing this. One thing is having an option like with facebook where I just block their ###### and nothing changes outside of their services, other is, not having one where they shove or "graciously" hand over to users to shove in. I guess you guys would just prefer if I simply don't use Neowin anymore. Problem solved? Sure. Doable. But is that really the way? I think not. No page should ever put user into such position with a 3rd party that's entirely unrelated to you other than providing snippets of easy code to shove into a webpage. If problem was in Neowin itself, I'd say screw it and I'd bugger off. But it's not. It's the 3rd party f**king it up. That's my problem. And only problem. And don't think I'm running some personal vendetta against Neowin here. I've asked LinusTechTips why their forum runs graphic buttons like "Reply" and "Quote" from Google servers as well. Answer was "it's convenient for us". And I have all the buttons missing and replaced with underlying text because of said blocking. I'm visiting tons of forums and theirs is the only one doing this nonsense. And I still like to hang around there despite having messed up buttons, because people there are nice and content is cool. I had a choice and I took it. I'm still there despite broken missing buttons. here, I don't have this luxury. I could accept half broken webpage just the same. But I only have an option of totally working or totally broken. One with google, one without google.

 

It's just funny observing people rage over avast! and Jumpshot for days, but they go like nyaaaaaah when Google is mining and selling their online presence on pretty much every webpage they visit and no one bats an eye. Instead people like me who avoid it and criticize it are called "tin foil hat crazy people". Funny double standards, don't you think?

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shockz    6,890
41 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

@shockz

Why is it necessary to always put down people who don't like totally creepy behavior from mega corporations? Just because everyone just carelessly and without any kind of doubt uses Google doesn't mean they are absolutely harmless totally not creepy mega company. Just like you don't report all your happenings in your real every day life to some company that you have no relation with, how is this situation with Google any different? And my life is pretty good without any Google in my life, thank you very much. Like, literally no different because there is bunch of really good services that are not centralized to a single data hoarder and I have a choice there. I can simply opt using something else instead of Google Maps or GMail. Except with nonsense like this here, where you don't. I wouldn't mind if Neowin used Google's prepackaged code locally. As long as it's not pinging back Google every time, do it as much as you want. Pulling it every time from their servers, that's the problem. Doing so you literally say "Hey Google, this user is now using webpage Neowin". it's how they are building user profiles and selling it to advertisers. How else do you think Google makes billions every year? Magic? Would you be ok that such activity would constantly be leaving a trail behind you everywhere you go and is handing it over to a company whose services you don't even need, want or use? Just like I don't use Facebook and I don't want their stupid Like buttons and other beacons trailing me around, I expect the same thing from Google. Or at least have such ability. Yet that seems to be incredibly hard with mentality like this here and with amount of webpages that are doing this. One thing is having an option like with facebook where I just block their ###### and nothing changes outside of their services, other is, not having one where they shove or "graciously" hand over to users to shove in. I guess you guys would just prefer if I simply don't use Neowin anymore. Problem solved? Sure. Doable. But is that really the way? I think not. No page should ever put user into such position with a 3rd party that's entirely unrelated to you other than providing snippets of easy code to shove into a webpage. If problem was in Neowin itself, I'd say screw it and I'd bugger off. But it's not. It's the 3rd party f**king it up. That's my problem. And only problem. And don't think I'm running some personal vendetta against Neowin here. I've asked LinusTechTips why their forum runs graphic buttons like "Reply" and "Quote" from Google servers as well. Answer was "it's convenient for us". And I have all the buttons missing and replaced with underlying text because of said blocking. I'm visiting tons of forums and theirs is the only one doing this nonsense. And I still like to hang around there despite having messed up buttons, because people there are nice and content is cool. I had a choice and I took it. I'm still there despite broken missing buttons. here, I don't have this luxury. I could accept half broken webpage just the same. But I only have an option of totally working or totally broken. One with google, one without google.

 

It's just funny observing people rage over avast! and Jumpshot for days, but they go like nyaaaaaah when Google is mining and selling their online presence on pretty much every webpage they visit and no one bats an eye. Instead people like me who avoid it and criticize it are called "tin foil hat crazy people". Funny double standards, don't you think?

I'm not saying I like google, or their practices, there's a lot I don't like about them... I'm just not concerned if Google is scraping fonts I'm loading in a browser or utilizing an API. You might as well log off the internet if you're on that level of paranoia with such minutia. 
 

Hope you’re on a VPN, because chances are your ISP is probably also a large media conglomerate, or partnered with one, selling your browsing history, or using it for their own commercial purposes. 

 

PS- Paragraphs would help. 

Edited by shockz
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macoman    2,842
2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I've decided to erase creepy uncle Google from my life and thus have everything Google blocked on a router/browser level. However, I'm unable to post any comments on your news feed because my router/browser is going crazy blocking all the crap from Google you have in place.

 

apis.google.com

ajax.googleapis.com

fonts.googleapis.com

www.google.com

 

Why is all this crap from Google necessary so the thing even runs? I really like Neowin as source of news and I often comment on things, but now it has become a complete no go because your site seems to depend on Google stuff so heavily you can't use it unless you basically hand over your entire life to it and trust their pinky promise of privacy.

If you want unbiased news... go to the associated press or Reuters websites.

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RejZoR    581

@shockz

Quote

I'm just not concerned if Google is scraping fonts I'm loading in a browser or utilizing an API.

Because you think that way. It's not just their good will to offer everyone free fonts that don't even consume any of their bandwidth. It's a company whose sole purpose is making money. Their fonts are fetched on every visit for a very specific purpose of trailing people online and they give them fancy fonts in exchange. It shows how little you have to give users to make them happy and shows the level of ignorance and lack of knowledge by users if they find this so easily acceptable. Not saying you're stupid because you don't see it problematic, I'm just saying you don't really understand mechanism behind it. For you it's just pretty harmless font. Like every casual user thinks as well. But fonts, I don't care. I have it blocked, webpages look slightly different because browser loads default ones. No harm done, I can still use them just fine. Not being able to post a comment at all, that's a bit different, don't you think?

 

Realistically, I'm not really even expecting any one to change anything here, but it doesn't hurt to ask. People are becoming more and more privacy aware and conscious and over time you'll want your webpage to be structured differently. Without such garbage pinging multibillion corporations every time an user visits it and gets punished by entirely unusable webpage if they decide to block it. I guess we said everything that can be said here.

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shockz    6,890
13 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

@shockz

Because you think that way. It's not just their good will to offer everyone free fonts that don't even consume any of their bandwidth. It's a company whose sole purpose is making money. Their fonts are fetched on every visit for a very specific purpose of trailing people online and they give them fancy fonts in exchange.

I'm well aware of that. I honestly just don't care. Background noise in regards to usable metrics. Again, internet minutia. 

 

Quote

For you it's just pretty harmless font. Like every casual user thinks as well. But fonts, I don't care. I have it blocked, webpages look slightly different because browser loads default ones. No harm done, I can still use them just fine. Not being able to post a comment at all, that's a bit different, don't you think?

 

Weird. Disabling things that impact the look and functionality of a webpage all in the name of making sure google doesn't get a hit on a font load that adds to their metrics of usage. It's a font stat. And an IP address. It's just silly to do. Especially when you're using a site designed for, well, exchanging information in an online forum and community. 

 

I get it, it's personal to you now. The big bad google. Sticking it to them, as if it'll make any difference. Have fun with that.

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RejZoR    581
Quote

It's a font stat. And an IP address.

Literally everything you need to trail users even when they aren't even using any of your apps and services. I never asked for their stupid fonts, they are just there. And so is all the other crap they serve. Ignorance really is a bliss... If you just don't give a ######, there isn't any problem. Fun.

 

Shockz visits webpage www.reddit.com. Fonts ping Google with your IP that you've been seen on www.reddit.com accessing them. Shockz visits webpage www.neowin.net and fonts again ping Google that your IP has been seen on www.neowin.net. Shockz goes to linustechtips.com, Google Fonts ping Google that your IP was seen on linustechtips.com. All while not even using Google for anything on purpose like using their maps, GMail or something. It's odd that you don't find this problematic or creepy at all. Would you just so freely allow your local advertisement agency to know every store, coffee shop, car service and car parking payment machine you've ever used by automatic pinging back and make hundreds of thousands of whatever currency you have from that? Not to mention question their privacy policies and care how they handle that data. I think you'd have a problem with that. All people would and have. Because in real world it's somehow ###### super creepy and undesired, but online it's "just pretty harmless fonts".

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c.grz    391
10 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Literally everything you need to trail users even when they aren't even using any of your apps and services. I never asked for their stupid fonts, they are just there. And so is all the other crap they serve. Ignorance really is a bliss... If you just don't give a ######, there isn't any problem. Fun.

 

Shockz visits webpage www.reddit.com. Fonts ping Google with your IP that you've been seen on www.reddit.com accessing them. Shockz visits webpage www.neowin.net and fonts again ping Google that your IP has been seen on www.neowin.net. Shockz goes to linustechtips.com, Google Fonts ping Google that your IP was seen on linustechtips.com. All while not even using Google for anything on purpose like using their maps, GMail or something. It's odd that you don't find this problematic or creepy at all. Would you just so freely allow your local advertisement agency to know every store, coffee shop, car service and car parking payment machine you've ever used by automatic pinging back and make hundreds of thousands of whatever currency you have from that? Not to mention question their privacy policies and care how they handle that data. I think you'd have a problem with that. All people would and have. Because in real world it's somehow ###### super creepy and undesired, but online it's "just pretty harmless fonts".

 

So when you go to every store, coffee shop, car service an car parking payment machine do you pay with cash? If you pay with a credit/debit card you're already giving that to your bank when then sells it to a third party....

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RejZoR    581
5 minutes ago, c.grz said:

 

So when you go to every store, coffee shop, car service an car parking payment machine do you pay with cash? If you pay with a credit/debit card you're already giving that to your bank when then sells it to a third party....

Yeah, but I have a choice of paying with card or money. I don't really have a choice of using Neowin without "paying with credit card". If you get the analogy...

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c.grz    391
4 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Yeah, but I have a choice of paying with card or money. I don't really have a choice of using Neowin without "paying with credit card". If you get the analogy...

You do have a choice:

 

1. Continue to use Neowin aka Pay with credit/debit

2. Find a site similar to Neowin but that doesn't depend on Google aka Pay with cash

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+Human.Online    8,754

Hey, if you don’t want google in your life then fair play. But using them as a CDN for fonts and scripts is a common practice so get over it. Feel free to browse the web on a text browser.

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RejZoR    581
3 minutes ago, Human.Online said:

Hey, if you don’t want google in your life then fair play. But using them as a CDN for fonts and scripts is a common practice so get over it. Feel free to browse the web on a text browser.

Hilarious mentality. Truly hilarious. Hitler's common practice was to gas the Jews and everyone weren't fine with it. Just because something is commonly practiced, it doesn't make it ok. Why haven't Jews just gotten over it like you say I should eh?

 

Also there is nothing wrong with rich content so your snarky "text browser" comment is rather lame. You won't see me complaining over webpages that are filled with AJAX and custom fonts and all that jazz. But they use it locally. I do have a problem when such content is unnecessarily pinging some 3rd party because it needs to be constantly pulled from 3rd party servers.

 

@c.grz

Your analogy doesn't work. You're giving option between two entirely different things, not two options within one single thing. Not even remotely comparable.

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c.grz    391
2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

 

@c.grz

Your analogy doesn't work. You're giving option between two entirely different things, not two options within one single thing. Not even remotely comparable.

I disagree but whatever, won't change the fact that Neowin depends on Google and you want nothing to do with Google.

 

Only two options; find another site or allow Google.

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shockz    6,890
1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Literally everything you need to trail users even when they aren't even using any of your apps and services. I never asked for their stupid fonts, they are just there. And so is all the other crap they serve. Ignorance really is a bliss... If you just don't give a ######, there isn't any problem. Fun.

 

Shockz visits webpage www.reddit.com. Fonts ping Google with your IP that you've been seen on www.reddit.com accessing them. Shockz visits webpage www.neowin.net and fonts again ping Google that your IP has been seen on www.neowin.net. Shockz goes to linustechtips.com, Google Fonts ping Google that your IP was seen on linustechtips.com. All while not even using Google for anything on purpose like using their maps, GMail or something. It's odd that you don't find this problematic or creepy at all. Would you just so freely allow your local advertisement agency to know every store, coffee shop, car service and car parking payment machine you've ever used by automatic pinging back and make hundreds of thousands of whatever currency you have from that? Not to mention question their privacy policies and care how they handle that data. I think you'd have a problem with that. All people would and have. Because in real world it's somehow ###### super creepy and undesired, but online it's "just pretty harmless fonts".

I guess I just don't care? Google knows I browse neowin.net. Horrifying lol. Not to mention, the IP I'm currently on is utilized by about 6000 other people right now, and the one at home is utilized by 6, and also changes. Not to mention their search bot indexes all posts on this site, just another, more vital and relevant stat on what I do on this site than worrying about a few api calls and font caching.

 

And honestly? The "creepy" methodology of how sites create these metrics is actually quite helpful as it gets more advanced. I often see ads relevant to my interests that contain coupon codes or other deals I'd normally not see if I'm incognito. I guess that really sucks? Damn, I got a deal on something because of my browsing habits. What a let down.

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xendrome    5,582

Blocking stuff just to block it and not understanding what it is for or does, isn't very wise.

 

The items you listed are legit services, had you said:

google-analytics.com

googleads.g.doubleclick.net

pagead2.googlesyndication.com

 

Then I might be onboard.

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Steven P.    14,996

The short answer is that we can't afford to do everything ourselves on the income we get from running this site so we offset some services that Google provide for "free". But rest assured everything we load into pages is required for one reason or another, and we also work hard at ensuring fast loading pages where we can.

 

I think you will come across this problem on most commercial sites though, it isn't limited to Neowin.

 

We are enrolled at Brave and Scroll too which modify our pages for their own purposes (I don't like it, but what you gonna do?) and we have a subscription ($28/year) that strips all ad/tracking content from the whole site. There are options, but we need to keep the lights on for a number of people too :) 

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+Human.Online    8,754
On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

Hitler's common practice was to gas the Jews and everyone weren't fine with it.

Aaaaaaand you cited Hitler...  So anything else you say is more nonsense.

 

Cheerio!

On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

Why haven't Jews just gotten over it like you say I should eh?

Because the two are completely the same!  OK!

On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

your snarky "text browser" comment is rather lame.

But comparing the use of the words most common CDN to gassing Jews is perfectly normal!

On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

But they use it locally.

To their detrement.  If you knew anything about CDNs you'd know that.

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+Human.Online    8,754
On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

unnecessarily

Nope, you're out of your depth with this comment too!

On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

constantly

Again showing how little you understand a CDN.

On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

Your analogy doesn't work.

Says the guy who compared the use of a CDN to the holocaust.

On 2/12/2020 at 10:07 PM, RejZoR said:

Not even remotely comparable.

Just, uh... LOL

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Riva    1,272

I hope you are not using Chrome...

Try Decentraleyes and privacy badger out.

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RejZoR    581

 

On 2/12/2020 at 6:53 PM, xendrome said:

Blocking stuff just to block it and not understanding what it is for or does, isn't very wise.

 

The items you listed are legit services, had you said:

google-analytics.com

googleads.g.doubleclick.net

pagead2.googlesyndication.com

 

Then I might be onboard.

The thing is, I didn't post any of this because blocking any of this doesn't break anything. So I don't have any issue with it. It's blocked by default for me and that's the end of it. It doesn't break any webpages as a result. Blocking ajax, fonts (partially) and other Google API's however does and that's the issue I have with. If all this was blockable and I could still comment in the comment section, even if in slightly broken form, I'd be fine with it. I do understand reasons why some pages are mildly broken and I accept it, because I'm filtering things from it. But when it totally breaks (as in I can type comment in the field and when I click post, it just hangs on an empty page), the reasons become questionable when some functionality invades webpages inner workings so far it just doesn't work if you remove it. Again, if it was first party thing, I wouldn't have an issue with it. I've accepted to hand over certain information to Neowin by using your website. I didn't do the same for Google on your site because they have nothing to do with Neowin on any level otherwise. I still appreciate honest reply by @aSteveParker . They do it from cost saving reasons and I can't blame them for that, money doesn't just fall from sky to run webpages.

22 hours ago, Riva said:

I hope you are not using Chrome...

Try Decentraleyes and privacy badger out.

Lol, why would I use Chrome and then complain about Google stuff infesting webpages? :D That would be an epic oxymoron. I'm using those two extensions along with few others.

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Nick H.    10,275

What I find amusing about all this is that it's being made out that it's just Neowin that has become completely broken with these blockages. As has been pointed out, there are going to be plenty of other places that suffer similar issues. I find my opinion on this is much the same as when people report that the site isn't working correctly when they have their adblocker active. If you want to block such things then that's fine, Neowin cannot stop you. But you can't complain that the site is broken when you are the one breaking it for yourself...

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Brandon H    3,503

Locking Thread

 

I think this thread has run its course. We at neowin do not condone Ad or Script blocking. We can't stop you if you choose to do so, but if things on the site break in the process then we will not be able to assist you to get around that.
As stated, Neowin uses CDN resources from Google for many of its live scripts to function in a simple manor.

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